Hotseat! God

Exactly how much empathy are they expected to show?

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"Loves them? They need them, like they need the air."

WAT

Seriously. What did you even say here? It looks like the only definitive thing you said is "God is everything". Are you a pantheist then?

A lot.

And it's not for show but an education, a way of perceiving the world and your relationship to others.

What I have found is that Jesus said "turn the other cheek." But Buddhism is an education in how that is accomplished.

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Louise Vale first woman to play Jane Eyre in the flickers.

Agreed, the very nature of trying to understand God is that of Apologetics. Now, I do not mean an absolute understanding, for that is impossible, but rather a basic definition that allows for faith. I fail to understand how you can believe in something you cannot define or understand, even at some basic level.

Yes, most definitely. It's quite possible evil may win out and destroy us all, sending us straight back to the cosmic dust from which we came. Perhaps we will all burn in the fires of judgment. Our end is inheritable unknowable, and it's a necessary condition for faith (although, we're not discussing that currently).

While the following quote is trite, and I will also admit it was a source of anger during my atheist years, it is absolutely relevant to the question at hand: “Pray as though everything depended on God. Work as though everything depended on you.” -St. Augustine

For if one believes the things about God to be true, they must take action and pick a side. But more importantly, the very act of taking up arms on one side vs. the other dictates that there is an understanding that things are entirely left up to us.

No, I don't think prayer works. Does it propel a believer into moral action—strengths it, encourages it? Yes, it's quite likely, but it's also not necessary for faith.

No, God doesn't talk to people. As far as biblical characters, I cannot be sure what I believe there. Instead, there are just some very strong and logical arguments that rely on the Bible, but I mostly draw my understanding from reason and experience—it's the only source of "truth," I believe.

I'm unsure what you mean by: "how far does this hiding extend?"

Again, no, good works causes us to ask "what do I need to do," rather than "what needs doing?" The prior causes us to concern ourselves with ourselves and our goal of achieving the good graces of God, where as the latter is the ultimate embodiment of selflessness—this is the reason for Jesus's unobtainable and radical morality, to demonstrate what is expected of us and our faith.

Sounds familiar, but I'm not sure. As for what I think, well, it's a very muddy example to pull out. I agree and say that no such thing happened, on the very grounds you point out about my claims of God. In the end, there's numerous ways to explain that passage, and I don't have time to do so, nor do I think it's relevant currently.

Yes, that would be a fair assesment to make on that issue. For meaning drives our actions, yes? If so, no meaning warrants no action for betterment—I would be better served paying my taxes, sitting at home watching TV, and eating a cheeseburger while the hungry people starve. Meaning, on the other hand, necessitates action, and it specifically does so when there are zero assurances of it.

Again, I reiterate, how can you believe in something you cannot define, nor understand. The very nature of belief requires, at least, a vague definition or understanding. And we have much more than just stories and words, we have our human intellect which, although limited, can provide us with the very basic definition needed for the basis of belief/faith.

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"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza

Possibly. I do feel a connection between nature and God. It seems like the most logical answer to me.

But I was also considering the possibility that God is a separate entity, something outside of nature, perhaps the creator of nature. I don't think there's any way to prove that.

The whole thing about us being God is probably more philosophical, but yet I also feel it's spiritual and could even be religious. But it's also more towards the way of pantheistic thinking -- we are all nature, aren't we? We're all something that physically exists, just like everything else.

I can see how that might be confusing since I also said that God is not human and does not resemble a person. For that, I've made an error by conflicting two different ideas. But they are just ideas, as are all definitions of God, in my opinion. From that we come to my other idea:

God is whatever we define him/her/it to be.

Why not? If we can define God as a mystical entity living off in Heaven or somewhere, we can pretty much define him as anything we feel like. When I joke that God is myself or Jake Gyllenhaal, I'm being partially serious, while at the same time I'm treating it like a joke. This is also why I said God is a feeling that can make us laugh.

How do you know that I am not God? How do I know that you are not God?

Don't worry -- I'm not losing my mind here. I'm not delusional. Just talking about the possibility of whatever "God" truly is. My statements could have been confusing, all over the place, incorrect, whatever. Currently, I'm glad I got them out, even if they don't make much sense. I hope they're somewhat useful to your thread -- I assumed they would be.

Anymore questions?

As an alleged scientist (someone with a Biological Sciences degree), I most certainly believe in evolution.

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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page

Again, I will expound on Jesus at a later time, but try not to forget the debate we had in the shoutbox recently about Jesus, as that's primarily where I will be starting.

"God takes the side of good against evil, since goodness is his nature" would be better served for number 2. Also, it's very important to add a postulate that states "God gives no assurances for the triumph of good over evil—that the righteous will be vindicated."

Dex, you're not the only one to get neg rep from Yoda. I got some for disagreeing with his political views.

As for God, well let's just say I do believe in God, it's simply the Church and religion as a whole that I have a problem with.

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"A laugh can be a very powerful thing. Why, sometimes in life, it's the only weapon we have."

Suspect's Reviews

I'd be curious as to the posts in question, TUS. I'll bet just about anything it wasn't for just disagreeing with me. I don't do that, as a rule.

I think I agree with all the people who disagree with trying to have an intellectual discussion about God. If your definition of God includes the fact that he created you in "His" image, then you have to intellectualize what that means. Normally, "image" is a "visual concept", but if we are as "smart" as God, then we can turn it into an "inner image" which has nothing to do with the senses. So, I just want to know, if there are truly any people here who "feel" with "only" their FIVE senses. Which sense does emotion come from?

I just hope the admin will be as quick to protect other threads from "premature" humor as he is in this thread.

I can't vouch for the speed at which I'll do so, because I happen to have been monitoring this thread and thus noticed everything sooner. But I've been pretty well criticized for telling people to stop goofing off in perfectly secular threads, too, and I didn't say anything until it was clear it was becoming a theme.

That said, it'll always depend on the specific circumstances. A half-dozen sexual jokes in the midst of a serious theological discussion is a bit different than someone making a one-off joke in someone's top 100 list, for example. It's not an exact science, which is why I didn't issue ultimatums: I simply appealed to people's courtesy. I see what that gets me, though: defensiveness, pot shots, and thinly veiled insinuations about heavy-handedness.

Emotions are a fascinating thing that I'm currently interested in. They come from the brain -- I think they have a lot to do with our limbic system, our old brain, which causes some of our most strongest emotions, like anger and fear. But they definitely come from our brain and input from all of our five senses helps create emotions.

As for other senses... do you believe in other senses, Mark F? Do you think that perhaps we lost touch with some of them? You believe in evolution -- do you think as we evolved, we didn't need certain senses anymore, but traces of them still linger?

I'm not sure how other senses work, but they may be real. I've been thinking recently that emotions and feelings might hold clues to the existence of ... God? Other realms/universes? Other parts of ourselves? I dunno. Just thought I'd bring it up since you brought up emotions.

Because you have to wonder why it's so much better to make jokes in Top 100 lists than in other serious threads. Note you said "serious theological discussion". It's no secret that God and religious topics tend to be one of your favorite areas/topics, Yoda, so all this sudden seriousness seems to come from a bias and I have to wonder about what's particularly unnerving you lately.

There may be better material found for jokes - yes, even half a dozen sexual jokes - in threads like this.

I'm all for respect and courtesy, too, but I say, don't end the jokes! Let's still have serious discussion, but my God, a humorless Movie Forums will be the end of this place.

I'm confused. This thread is about exploring a subject in which you do not believe in?

What is the point of the thread?

thank you.

also feel free to neg away at will.

The last sentence incidentally isn't directed at PN.

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"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo.

Don't be that way, Dexy. Look at what Yoda's negative rep to Dex has done. He needs Dexual Healing!

Oh yoda isn't the only one. at least he had the decency to explain why he did so.

This is all way more dramatic than is even remotely necessary:

1) Nobody's talking about a "humorless Movie Forums," and I'm not saying jokes that are perfectly okay elsewhere are wrong in here. I've had to step in regarding other threads, too. All the time. Any conception that this thread has special rules is simply inaccurate, even though it quickly seems to have become some kind of established fact.

2) I'm getting the impression that this entire line of discussion comes from some idea that I'm really mad, or telling people they can't do it, or being "really serious." None of that is true.

3) After, like, a half-dozen posts, I simply asked people not to muddle a serious thread with goofy stuff. It was a request, and a perfectly reasonable, polite one, too.

There's really not more to it than that. I don't know if me referencing the "seriousness" of the topic is the catalyst for all this, but any additional drama is the result of someone taking my initial request to mean much more than it did. I routinely have to ask people to take the goofing off out of a given thread, so I fail to see why doing so here would be so controversial.

I don't know why it's so much more controversial here, Yoda. Maybe it's... a vibe... that people are getting. Even me. Maybe the sixth sense is kicking in. Maybe it's emotional. Maybe that's what happens when you ask for seriousness in a thread called "God". It could be a psychological thing.

I think you asked for seriousness too soon. There wasn't much going on in this thread. I do admit that things could be getting a little too "dramatic" here, and I'll readily admit that I could be playing a part in that -- I've been called a "dramatic" person by others. I dunno if that's it or not, though.

I've noticed that people tend to like and favor others who are more "chill" and relaxed -- which could be something that you're not projecting today.

I'm having fun reading this thread, but between fresh batches of tea, trying to get some work done and disregarding the unrelated attempts at humour, it's taking a while.

Anyway I just wanted to drop a line saying props to Planet News and those involved in the thread for providing a good read.