I guess the entire field of Apologetics is for nothing then? Fine with me.
Agreed, the very nature of trying to understand God is that of Apologetics. Now, I do not mean an absolute understanding, for that is impossible, but rather a basic definition that allows for faith. I fail to understand how you can believe in something you cannot define or understand, even at some basic level.
Absolutely. But I need a clarification... does this mean that you believe that our destinies are unknowable, both in life and after life? Should this be added to our model of GOD 2?
Yes, most definitely. It's quite possible evil may win out and destroy us all, sending us straight back to the cosmic dust from which we came. Perhaps we will all burn in the fires of judgment. Our end is inheritable unknowable, and it's a necessary condition for faith (although, we're not discussing that currently).
Wat. So... you don't think prayer works? You don't think God talks to people? What about Moses and the like? How far does this "hiding" extend? Do you believe in good works?
While the following quote is trite, and I will also admit it was a source of anger during my atheist years, it is absolutely relevant to the question at hand:
“Pray as though everything depended on God. Work as though everything depended on you.” -St. Augustine
For if one believes the things about God to be true, they must take action and pick a side. But more importantly, the very act of taking up arms on one side vs. the other dictates that there is an understanding that things are entirely left up to us.
No, I don't think prayer works. Does it propel a believer into moral action—strengths it, encourages it? Yes, it's quite likely, but it's also not necessary for faith.
No, God doesn't talk to people. As far as biblical characters, I cannot be sure what I believe there. Instead, there are just some very strong and logical arguments that rely on the
Bible, but I mostly draw my understanding from reason and experience—it's the only source of "truth," I believe.
I'm unsure what you mean by: "how far does this hiding extend?"
Again, no, good works causes us to ask "what do I need to do," rather than "what needs doing?" The prior causes us to concern ourselves with ourselves and our goal of achieving the good graces of God, where as the latter is the ultimate embodiment of selflessness—this is the reason for Jesus's unobtainable and radical morality, to demonstrate what is expected of us and our faith.
Are you familiar with Kierkegaard's "Teleological Suspension of the Ethical"? Do you believe in this concept of, to put it vulgarly, supramorality? Even if the command to murder his son is immoral, didn't Abraham ultimately do the right thing by obeying God? Or should he have disobeyed a direct command from God? Note the fact that Abraham ultimately did not sacrifice his son; his morality was only suspended up until the moment he was pardoned. Was he correct to do this? Or do you not believe that this event occurred (I certainly don't)---since you said that you cannot have a personal relationship with God?
Sounds familiar, but I'm not sure. As for what I think, well, it's a very muddy example to pull out. I agree and say that no such thing happened, on the very grounds you point out about my claims of God. In the end, there's numerous ways to explain that passage, and I don't have time to do so, nor do I think it's relevant currently.
This seems to be something along Descartes' lines? Or maybe Platonic Idealism? Perceiving imperfection and injustice in something automatically suggests that there must be something out there that is both perfect and just (and any number of ideals). Correct me if I'm wrong here, but your dichotomy is the following:
Either...
- ...meaning is completely subjective, or...
- ...meaning is (presumed to be) completely objective.
Wittgenstein said that "to believe in God means to see that life has a meaning."
Could this... perhaps... be related to, or consist entirely of, a discussion about meaning?!?!?
Yes, that would be a fair assesment to make on that issue. For meaning drives our actions, yes? If so, no meaning warrants no action for betterment—I would be better served paying my taxes, sitting at home watching TV, and eating a cheeseburger while the hungry people starve. Meaning, on the other hand, necessitates action, and it specifically does so when there are zero assurances of it.
I'll be honest and say that I didn't read all of the "God" definitions because I don't believe he can be defined anyway. I did want to throw my two cents in though.
My faith is more important to me than anything and it's what gets me through every single day. God can't be explained. He can't be proved. You simply have to believe in him. It's not an easy thing to do especially when all we have to go is the words and stories that have been passed down. Like anyone would, I have my relapses and question things. But I think I'm a much happier person because with faith comes hope.
Again, I reiterate, how can you believe in something you cannot define, nor understand. The very nature of belief requires, at least, a vague definition or understanding. And we have much more than just stories and words, we have our human intellect which, although limited, can provide us with the very basic definition needed for the basis of belief/faith.