The Matrix is over rated!!!

I don't think anyone can decide whether a movie is overrated or not.The OP feels that way and that is his opinion.There is no right or wrong in it

Did you read anything apart from the bit you quoted? If you want to disagree with me, you might try responding to all that other stuff.

I hope you mean that you don't let anyone dictate your taste to you, which is completely different than saying it doesn't influence you. Of course things influence you. The alternative would be a hermetically sealed worldview where you act like you already have all the knowledge and perspective you need and never allow yourself to be persuaded or enlightened by anyone else. That'd be a shame--if it were actually true to begin with. Nobody can actually avoid being influenced, and they shouldn't try to. They should just avoid aping other people's opinions with simple appeals to authority, is all. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is what you meant.

Okay? Doesn't really have a lot to do with what we're saying, though (and I don't even think it's a particularly unusual opinion, anyway). You have opinions. Great. We've established that. The question is whether or not we should use the inevitable subjectivity of opinions to pretend that all opinions are therefore created equal. As if they can't be more or less considered, more or less thoughtful, and more or less informed.

Like I said, it's basically a math problem: the more movies you see, the more meaningful your favorites are, because they have to contend with more movies for that designation. If you've seen exactly two movies, it doesn't mean a lot to say one of them is your favorite: it only had to beat the other way. If you've seen 10,000, it means a good deal more.

If this were true, all movie discussions would just be people stating their opinions and never delving into or examining them at all. Thank goodness it isn't true, because that would be boring and pointless. Not being able to objectively weigh something does not mean that all examples of it are identical, or deserve the same level of deference.

A simple question, though, to test what you're saying: imagine a 6-year old comes out of Despicable Me 2 and says it's their favorite movie. Would you give that the exact same consideration and weight as a 59-year old movie critic who's seen 10,000 films? Why or why not?

Dumb example.

I am a 24 year old who has watched numerous films.I am sure you have watched numerous films as well.I believe Matrix is the greatest movie ever.Let's say you think Star Wars is the greatest movie ever.There's no way to exactly decide which movie is better.More like a person's preference and nothing more.

Society has created a perception on what's good and what's bad.The Godfather is a considered to be a great movie and American Pie is considered to be an average movie.If someone feels the same,nothing happens.Suppose someone says the opposite,it becomes a crime

No, it's a good example because it's deliberately extreme so as to establish the principle that an opinion can be more or less informed and should be given more or less weight based on how informed or considered it is. And once that's done, the rest of the argument falls into place. I assume you realize this, which is why you didn't actually answer the question.

FYI,I watched 277 movies in the last 365 days.I don't think that's less.I can only praise movies that have entertained me.I can't praise a movie that I didn't enjoy just because it is widely praised.And no movie has entertained me like Matrix.I don't care whether people praise it or hate it.It will still be the best movie ever

You're not really making arguments here, you're just restating your opinion over and over.

The fact that you think this is about what other people say is a problem. Nobody's suggesting you should love a film, hear that Pauline Kael hated it, and then change your mind. Unless, of course, she makes a persuasive critical argument you hadn't thought of, in which case it'd be stubborn and foolish to not let that argument influence you. But no, the issue is whether or not you seeing more movies will change your mind. Will it remain your favorite if you expose yourself to a wider breadth of films? You cannot possibly know. But we can observe that most people do who this see changes in their taste.

The argument is not that you should change your mind about what entertains you. The argument is that it will probably change on its own if you watch a wider variety of films, and that when someone doesn't do this their favorite films are less a reflection of those films, and more a reflection of what they haven't watched yet.

Bringing up the disagreement that "is this guy a better critic than this guy" simply down to their experience is kinda moot... and saying that's what other people are doing is just one of the few arguments that crops up between movie fans every couple of months and never really gets anywhere.

I think this argument has been had before on another thread about who is the better critic, those who have seen more films give a stronger opinion... or not... etc etc.


The whole situation is subjective.
If a lot of people genuinely like a film then the bets are it's a well rounded film, has a strong subject that hits a nerve with a number/most of people.
It's not always the case, but 99% of the time that's why the film is so revered.

I'm in agreement on both sides.

1: I love The Shawshank Redemption and The Terminator, both films are revered by the public... and I stand Indiana Jones Crystal Skull.
2: There are films out there I can't stand that are loved by most of the populous, namely 2001 and A Clockwork Orange... yet I love Alien 3 which has been hammered even by its own Director.


And I'm a critic that has seen close to, maybe over 10,000 films and reviewed near 300 of them.

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As for the subject matter of The Matrix.

Loved it when I first saw it and was blown away by the concept and effects too. I'm a huge Sci-Fi fan and thought it was one of the best I'd seen at that time.

Since then though I've found it has become a bit stale. Maybe a little boring and the sequels didn't do much to help it either.
It didn't even make my list of 25 when MoFo had the Top 100 90s Films. Tbh, it wouldn't have made it if I was allowed to choose 100 90s films.

Does anyone think The Avengers was awesome because it taught us so much about philosophy? My guess is 'no'...As an action film, I think The Matrix is about as good as it gets. And I think it was pretty daring to ponder on the idea of us humans being prisoners ('locked in a cave', if anyone noticed the similarities between The Matrix and Plato's cave analogy)...So in it genre, I think The Matrix is way up there.
But in my opinion comparing this film to stuff like 'Magnolia' or 'American Beauty' is unfair to both.
Not saying The Matrix is the best movie of 1999, but I think it's the best sci-fi/action film of that year. Too bad they made the sequels, cause that kinda pissed all over the whole thing...

Also, when you watch The Matrix and its sequels a few times, you start noticing more and more plot holes. Kinda ruins the illusion for me

Something that the Wachowskis used heavily in the writing was religion in general and Plato's teachings is a heavy influence on the film overall. Think this was covered a little while back too in a thread somewhere and I went on and on about it

Wasn't keen on The Avengers though personally. I guess I prefer DC over Marvel.
The Amazing Spider-Man, I'd say, is the strongest Marvel film.

Sorry, I'm kinda new to the forum...will check out your rants, though

Yeah that's cool, I wasn't killing the conversation by saying it was covered somewhere else

I think it's an interesting subject and probably the only thing these days I enjoy about The Matrix. How they integrated a number of religious ideals into one film... and then made it a Sci-Fi movie at the same time.

Other than that, it's a kinda preachy and contrived set of plot holes that are mashed together in a confusing way.

Your problem here is that you make no distinction between opinion and evaluation and therefore present opinion as fact outside of the context of yourself. You say that The Matrix is the best movie ever made. It may be your favorite movie, in which case you need provide no other arguments than what you have said, that it entertained you more than any other movie, but saying that it is the best movie ever without providing any sort of evaluation or comparison between other movies makes this statement null and void. You're using a collection of non-sequiturs to prove your conservative habits, resulting in numerous logical fallacies rather than evaluating or explaining your claim in its specific context.

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Mubi

I've just gone through these three pages repeatedly pressing the rep button for bluedeed

This little comment probably sums up the entire thread though.

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Appreciate the support, the war is ongoing...

I was checking out some David Bordwell articles after you posted in the other thread and stumbled across this...

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/20...cal-condition/

I think AdamHanks needs to read it.

I remember reading Neuromancer by William Gibson and thinking, wow, how would anyone film a tricky concept like this. I think the Matrix nailed it. It combined a great premise with excellent execution. And it has a high re-watchability factor (IMO). Overrated, who knows, the Best who knows.. but it is a damn good movie.

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Under-the-radar Movie Awesomeness.
http://earlsmoviepicks.blogspot.com/

I agree.

My problem lies in the fact that people have a fixed opinion on what's great and what's bad.People have been spoon-fed to accept "X" is a good movie and "Y" is a bad movie"Just don't like this concept

I really do wish this was a forum where people had actual opinions based on actual tastes rather than just liking what they're told to, that's why we never have arguments here. I don't see how this comment is relevant, but it sure is condescending, or maybe you're just reference that notorious general audience again.