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A thread for campy or intentionally bad films

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I have this song on my computer and I like it unironically.
I like the song and the movie a lot. Campy? Definitely. Bad? I guess, but it's one of those movies that's so bad, it's good. Since it's so adorable, sincere, has too many good vibes and it's so much fun, I overlook the ineptitude in the filmmaking.

It's just too bad Rick Santorum went on the path he took afterwards:

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A couple of years ago I saw Who Killed Captain Alex, Manos: The Hands of Fate, and Miami Connection, all within a span of 3 or 4 months and it really changed my perspective of what a "bad" film is
Did you ask yourself...





minds his own damn business
I was thinking about Wild Things, a film that on paper is straight Cinemax trash, but it's a great example of how a little bit of cleverness and class (thanks, John McNaughton) goes a long way to transforming crap into camp without the kind of winking self-awareness that becomes smug. There's no sense that anyone involved is too good for the material. Everyone has a committed relish for the tawdry basics.
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"How tall is King Kong ?"
By the way, I haven't seen Iron Sky nor Kung Fury, but I've watched Space Cop. Which is indeed intentionally bad yet also manages to be unintentionally bad. I think they went for so bad it's fun, and overshot. Which is a shame. As many, I hoped to enjoy it.

Anyway. Are we allowed to mention Bruce Campbell in here or is it considered cheating ?
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A couple of years ago I saw Who Killed Captain Alex, Manos: The Hands of Fate, and Miami Connection, all within a span of 3 or 4 months and it really changed my perspective of what a "bad" film is

Ya know, I actually loved that song like Yoda, and given the description of miami connection seems like something I would enjoy. Manos Hands of Fate is definetly an aweful film, and deserves a reward. I was intrigued at the start of the thing but it's flat boooring.


I might like Miami Connection because I do dig 80's cheese if its done properly.
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Ya know, I actually loved that song like Yoda, and given the description of miami connection seems like something I would enjoy. Manos Hands of Fate is definetly an aweful film, and deserves a reward. I was intrigued at the start of the thing but it's flat boooring.


I might like Miami Connection because I do dig 80's cheese if its done properly.
I'm sure I've argued this before here, but those three (and probably other so-called "bad" films) are helped a lot by the context, IMO. I mean, a "bad" film is a bad film anyway, but I kinda admire the filmmakers of those just for their boldness to try to make *something* despite lack of "professional skills" or resources. There's an article I read back when I saw Who Killed Captain Alex that chronicled the conditions in which the director/writer, Nabwana I.G.G. is making films in Uganda, or the resolve of Harold P. Warren or Y.K. Kim in making the other two, against all odds and sometimes at the expense of their own resources, and I have more respect for their end result than I have for some big budget crapfest or some of the generic, formulaic trash that studios often spew.
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@Gideon58 Valley Of The Dolls is a fascinating oddity of a film. I think it falls between a unique mix of genuinely compelling and highly bizarre at the same time. Patty Duke gives an incredibly entertaining over-the-top performance, delivering every one of her lines with gusto, no matter how weird it is.
Having the beautiful Sharon Tate is a plus as well.

The sequel Beyond The Valley Of The Dolls is even crazier, though arguably made to be campy on purpose. It's especially worth checking out just for the sheer fact that Roger Ebert wrote it. You're telling me he came up with "You will drink the black sperm of my vengeance"? This man is a genius.

Here's a link to my review of Beyond the Valley of the Dolls


https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/...the-dolls.html



The Toxic Avenger and Maximum Overdrive are my favorite films for this.
"Honey, this machine just called me an asshol e!"



As an aside, how do you guys rate campy films? This is something I've struggle with for a while. On one hand, the stupidity in, say, the films I mentioned up above are all intentional, so I don't think they should be criticized for that, but on the other hand, I'm not sure I feel comfortable giving them 6, 7, or even 8/10 ratings, given some of the other films I've given those ratings to. If I rate Maximum Overdrive an 8/10, for example, does this mean it's on par with Flight, which I watched a few days ago and really liked?



As an aside, how do you guys rate campy films? This is something I've struggle with for a while. On one hand, the stupidity in, say, the films I mentioned up above are all intentional, so I don't think they should be criticized for that, but on the other hand, I'm not sure I feel comfortable giving them 6, 7, or even 8/10 ratings, given some of the other films I've given those ratings to. If I rate Maximum Overdrive an 8/10, for example, does this mean it's on par with Flight, which I watched a few days ago and really liked?
Numerical ratings are garbage and a terrible metric for assessing quality.

Therefore, I use a 5 star rating to rate enjoyment.

1 hated. 5 loved.

I gave Miami Connection 5 stars.

I gave House of Gucci 4 stars.

I’d give Jared Leto’s performance in House of Gucci 500 stars.



Numerical ratings are garbage and a terrible metric for assessing quality.

Therefore, I use a 5 star rating to rate enjoyment.

1 hated. 5 loved.

I gave Miami Connection 5 stars.

I gave House of Gucci 4 stars.

I’d give Jared Leto’s performance in House of Gucci 500 stars.
I can kind of get behind that. Part of my hesitation to give campy films good ratings is that I find it hard to tell whether the camp in them is intentional or unintentional, but idk, maybe I just need to loosen up.



I can kind of get behind that. Part of my hesitation to give campy films good ratings is that I find it hard to tell whether the camp in them is intentional or unintentional, but idk, maybe I just need to loosen up.
This is why I rate via my enjoyment. It doesn’t matter if it’s intentional or not. Sometimes, I enjoy it more when it’s unintentional.

Neil Breen has a few 5 star joints in my book.

If I tried to rate his “quality,” it would feel a fruitless effort that wouldn’t capture anything close to meaningful. Zero stars would do nothing to capture the sublime insanity that is Fateful Findings.



I find the overall vibes a trash movie gives off plays a big role in my enjoyment. YK Kim in Miami Connection and Jon Mikl Thor in Rock'n'Roll Nightmare just seem like such affable presences, and that good cheer spills over to the rest of the movie. In contrast, I've always run a bit cold on The Room because Tommy Wiseau seems like a completely unpleasant person to be around.



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Anyway. Are we allowed to mention Bruce Campbell in here or is it considered cheating ?

Bruce Campbell? Never heard of him. However, I was helped by a nice young man at S-Mart once who helped me select a boomstick once.



As an aside, how do you guys rate campy films? This is something I've struggle with for a while. On one hand, the stupidity in, say, the films I mentioned up above are all intentional, so I don't think they should be criticized for that, but on the other hand, I'm not sure I feel comfortable giving them 6, 7, or even 8/10 ratings, given some of the other films I've given those ratings to. If I rate Maximum Overdrive an 8/10, for example, does this mean it's on par with Flight, which I watched a few days ago and really liked?

I can't think of anything that has less value to me than a numerical rating. Honestly, I think the Siskel/Ebert metric of thumbsup/thumbdown is more than enough.



Like MKS, my ratings are only somewhat related to anything regarding quality. It's all enjoyment. Maybe if I think a movie I rated a 3 on enjoyment was exceptionally well made, I might bump it a bit. But more likely than not, these qualities of the film are probably already baked into my enjoyment.



The only thing I've changed in my dumb numerical ratings in recent years is an understanding that I have more levels of 'like' than 'dislike', so I now allow myself to dip beneath 3 1/2's for movies I still like a fair bit. I now consider any movie above a 2 out of 5 as being decent. 2 is for the borings or averages. 1 1/2 is where things start to get dire. The less said about zeros the better.



As an aside, how do you guys rate campy films? This is something I've struggle with for a while. On one hand, the stupidity in, say, the films I mentioned up above are all intentional, so I don't think they should be criticized for that, but on the other hand, I'm not sure I feel comfortable giving them 6, 7, or even 8/10 ratings, given some of the other films I've given those ratings to. If I rate Maximum Overdrive an 8/10, for example, does this mean it's on par with Flight, which I watched a few days ago and really liked?
Considering I find the Star Wars: Holiday Special to be more enjoyable than the 90's re-vamp, (and subsequently anything remotely related to that trashy franchise)... I'd rate the films justly:

Empire Strikes Back, (original) A+
New Hope, (original) A+
Star Wars: Holiday Special A
Return of the Jedi, (original) B

Anything beyond that isn't worth watching in my opinion...

I don't care if its campy or not, or the quality... if it gave me a few laughs and a thrill, great. Better than watching Lucas put a mustache on the Mona Lisa and call it "original intent." Or anything dreadfully Disney, good heavens what a Faustian deal that is...
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As an aside, how do you guys rate campy films? This is something I've struggle with for a while. On one hand, the stupidity in, say, the films I mentioned up above are all intentional, so I don't think they should be criticized for that, but on the other hand, I'm not sure I feel comfortable giving them 6, 7, or even 8/10 ratings, given some of the other films I've given those ratings to. If I rate Maximum Overdrive an 8/10, for example, does this mean it's on par with Flight, which I watched a few days ago and really liked?
ThatDarnMKS has a good point here overall, I'd give Thankskilling
, but a
to poultrygeist and Dawn of The Dead.



Numerical ratings are garbage and a terrible metric for assessing quality.

Therefore, I use a 5 star rating to rate enjoyment.

1 hated. 5 loved.

I gave Miami Connection 5 stars.

I gave House of Gucci 4 stars.

I’d give Jared Leto’s performance in House of Gucci 500 stars.
This is why I rate via my enjoyment. It doesn’t matter if it’s intentional or not. Sometimes, I enjoy it more when it’s unintentional.

Neil Breen has a few 5 star joints in my book.

If I tried to rate his “quality,” it would feel a fruitless effort that wouldn’t capture anything close to meaningful. Zero stars would do nothing to capture the sublime insanity that is Fateful Findings.
This is more or less my line of thinking, which is partly related to what I said on my previous tweet re: context. I firmly believe that you need to put the goals of a film, the resources the filmmaker has, and the overall end result side-by-side when giving your opinion (and rating) on a film. To use that example, what were the goals of Miami Connection? What were the goals of House of Gucci? What resources did Ridley Scott or Y.K. Kim had? How much did I enjoy the end result? Can't judge one by the goals and/or resources of the other. But also, as far as ratings go, they're just a tool for comparison and even organization. I would rather have people read/listen to my thoughts on those films than just look at a rating.