A female directors thread, because why not.

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So after only recently finding out about her yourself (presumably from the all the press after her recent death), you've just concluded that praise for her only, or even largely exists on the Internet — despite her overwhelming international praise over the past several decades?
Not to mention that praise in and of itself does not determine quality.
Indeed.



And the foreign ones like Agnes Varda don't get a lot of notoriety outside the internet
Huh??

I only found out about her recently, and no one I know has ever kentioned her until I brought her up on this thread. She's popular in the modern online movie community, but not like Nolan or even Bay.
So after only recently finding out about her yourself (presumably from the all the press after her recent death), you've just concluded that praise for her only, or even largely exists on the Internet — despite her overwhelming international praise over the past several decades?
Overwhelming praise by what definition? Maybe she had it in France while she was making those movies, but how many people are willing to watch a five hour movie about a woman cooking, cleaning and screwing?



Overwhelming praise by what definition?*
• 3 Orders of Merit from France
• A Golden Lion
• Lifetime achievement award from the
EFA
• Honorary Oscar
• Best Doc Cesar
• Leopard of Hon. at Locarno
• Honorary degree from Belgium
• Honorary Palme and Directors Fortnight awards from Cannes

Maybe she had it in France while she was making those movies
You say this like it was some insignificant blip of time in film history, and not a career that lasted over half a century that kickstarted one of the watershed movements in cinema with an influence that echoed around the globe.

l
but how many people are willing to watch a five hour movie about a woman cooking, cleaning and screwing?
Now you're confusing Varda with Chantal Akerman — two vastly different filmmakers.

Just to entertain the question though: Not only did many people want see that film (and many still do), but your perspective, based on what you and your immediate peers have heard of, doesn't actually translate into a universal reality.



Now you're confusing Varda with Chantal Akerman — two vastly different filmmakers.

Just to entertain the question though: Not only did many people want see that film (and many still do), but your perspective, based on what you and your immediate peers have heard of, doesn't actually translate into a universal reality.
You beat me to it in your correction. And Jeanne Dielman is one of my favorite movies. Seen it many times.
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Overwhelming praise by what definition?*
• 3 Orders of Merit from France
• A Golden Lion
• Lifetime achievement award from the
EFA
• Honorary Oscar
• Best Doc Cesar
• Leopard of Hon. at Locarno
• Honorary degree from Belgium
• Honorary Palme and Directors Fortnight awards from Cannes

Maybe she had it in France while she was making those movies
You say this like it was some insignificant blip of time in film history, and not a career that lasted over half a century that kickstarted one of the watershed movements in cinema with an influence that echoed around the globe.

l
but how many people are willing to watch a five hour movie about a woman cooking, cleaning and screwing?
Now you're confusing Varda with Chantal Akerman — two vastly different filmmakers.

Just to entertain the question though: Not only did many people want see that film (and many still do), but your perspective, based on what you and your immediate peers have heard of, doesn't actually translate into a universal reality.

I never said they translate that way. But I read a lot about who influenced who, and some directors just aren't as popular as they USED TO BE, which is what I'm saying. These days, when you mention female directors, the first two mentioned are usually Bigelow and Coppola. Besides, these honors are mostly France exclusive, though an Osvar and a Cannes award is good. Please don-t confuse what I'm saying as some ill-fated attempt at law. It really irritates me.



Besides, these honors are mostly France exclusive, though an Osvar and a Cannes award is good.

A director working in the French industry will win French awards, isn't it? What else did you expect her to win? An Indian award?
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You could argue that Bigelow and Coppola manage to achieve more fame/notoriety than their contemporaries for other reasons like the former working in quote-unquote "masculine" genres like police/war films and the latter being the daughter of an acclaimed male filmmaker, as opposed to Varda almost being overshadowed by her own French New Wave peers like Godard or Truffaut. Still, you see how saying that nobody really knows her outside online film communities can sound just the tiniest bit condescending.

That being said, it does speak to the common issue expressed in this thread and others about how people don't tend to care about whether a film's director is female when considering said film (which made the prospect of running a films-directed-by-women countdown a tricky proposition since it would've involved deeper knowledge and research than simply knowing a movie belongs to a certain decade or genre, hence why it had one of the lowest turn-outs of any voter list on this site). I don't know how much I can truly begrudge people not caring, but I do think it's a factor that is worth considering in a borderline-auteur kind of way - not only does it speak to some level of authenticity when it comes to films about the female experience but it also has the possibility to provide a fresh perspective to genres and movements that can start to stagnate under predominantly male creators (like how Bigelow was the first person to cast Keanu Reeves as an action hero in Point Break, to say nothing of how the Wachowski sisters built on that by casting him in The Matrix).
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Besides, these honors are mostly France exclusive, though an Osvar and a Cannes award is good.

A director working in the French industry will win French awards, isn't it? What else did you expect her to win? An Indian award?

What I'm saying is that's not worldwide fame like Kurosawa or Peter Jackson or Sergio Leone, or more recently, Bong Joon Ho, other foreign directors who have achieved worldwide fame on that scale. Some of these directors have the level of fame that Spielberg or Scorsese have.

Let me ask, how often to you hear mention of Agnes Varda outside of the movie community, especially offline?



And the foreign ones like Agnes Varda don't get a lot of notoriety outside the internet
Huh??

I only found out about her recently, and no one I know has ever kentioned her until I brought her up on this thread. She's popular in the modern online movie community, but not like Nolan or even Bay.
So after only recently finding out about her yourself (presumably from the all the press after her recent death), you've just concluded that praise for her only, or even largely exists on the Internet — despite her overwhelming international praise over the past several decades?
Overwhelming praise by what definition? Maybe she had it in France while she was making those movies, but how many people are willing to watch a five hour movie about a woman cooking, cleaning and screwing?
I have to agree with the latter sentiment. But I suppose what we personally would/wouldn’t be willing to watch doesn’t in and of itself speak of quality. I started watching Bergman when I was about nine years old and was fascinated, but I do find many female filmmakers extremely boring because they often tackle unexciting subjects. I’m sure some people would feel the opposite way and both POVs are valid. Bigelow is an exception to ‘boring’, but they do sometimes prove the rule. I find Gerwig talented, but her work to me felt simply uninteresting, definitely not rewatch material.



What I'm saying is that's not worldwide fame like Kurosawa or Peter Jackson or Sergio Leone, or more recently, Bong Joon Ho, other foreign directors who have achieved worldwide fame on that scale. Some of these directors have the level of fame that Spielberg or Scorsese have.

Let me ask, how often to you hear mention of Agnes Varda outside of the movie community, especially offline?
If a director’s value is based on how famous he or she is, that’s a sad comment IMO.



What I'm saying is that's not worldwide fame like Kurosawa or Peter Jackson or Sergio Leone, or more recently, Bong Joon Ho, other foreign directors who have achieved worldwide fame on that scale. Some of these directors have the level of fame that Spielberg or Scorsese have.

Let me ask, how often to you hear mention of Agnes Varda outside of the movie community, especially offline?
If a director’s value is based on how famous he or she is, that’s a sad comment IMO.

You know I'm talking about both at once. I was just saying she hasn't impacted the world in the same way. Don't accuse me of saying "only popular directors are good ones." Don't even think it. You know what I was trying to say and don't act like you don't. And don't EVER insinuate I'm dumb enough to believe popularity and quality are exactly the same again.

And answer my question. Bottomline is: Despite being a great director, she hasn't impacted the world the same way some other foreign directors have. If she did, you wouldn't have dodged my question. So answer it.


Even though she's a high quality director, has that quality impacted the whole world to the extent Spielberg, Hitchcock, Kurosawa and others have, or is that influence very largely exclusive to France nowadays?



If it's so important for you to treat me like a fool, go to imdb and see how many times Varda makes it into the top 50 greatest foreign directors lists. I checked yesterday and read a lot of lists concerning that. She's usually not even in the top 100. Fellini, Tarr, Kurosawa, Miyazaki, all common. I repeat: I'm not denying her quality. But the evidence is there. Her quality unfortunately hasn't won her many heights in other countries despite deserving it.



...[Anges Varda]..She's usually not even in the top 100. Fellini, Tarr, Kurosawa, Miyazaki, all common. I repeat: I'm not denying her quality. But the evidence is there. Her quality unfortunately hasn't won her many heights in other countries despite deserving it.
I suspect most of the directors in top 100 list are either:
  • Long dead, so have had time for their fame to grow.
  • Produce Hollywood blockbusters that every one knows.
  • Specialized in genres that have huge followings, I.E. anime.



Then what's Varda's specialty?

Again, I'm hoping Greta Gerwig gets up there. Her first two movies were huge hits and Oscar nominees. The lack of female appreciation makes me eager to see Greta shine.



You know I'm talking about both at once. I was just saying she hasn't impacted the world in the same way. Don't accuse me of saying "only popular directors are good ones." Don't even think it. You know what I was trying to say and don't act like you don't. And don't EVER insinuate I'm dumb enough to believe popularity and quality are exactly the same again.
To whom are these comments addressed? It’s not at all clear.

If it's so important for you to treat me like a fool, go to imdb and see how many times Varda makes it into the top 50 greatest foreign directors lists. I checked yesterday and read a lot of lists concerning that.
Same question as above.

Then what's Varda's specialty?
Haven’t a clue. Does she need one?



If it's not clear to you, that's your own fault.

Ok, if you need me to phrase it like a third-grader, here you go: Ms. Varda makes a lot of really good movies. A lot of people from her country France learned a lot from her. But not a lot of people in other countries learned a lot from Ms. Varda. Those countries all like Mr. Kurosawa, Mr. Bergman, and especially Mr. Peter Jackson from New Zealand.

Now can you put two and two together? And please add a little extra focus when reading this one, because I hate reiterating my points when someone doesn't understand, meaning you need to go back and read them again.



May I suggest that in the next thread you start you don’t get so exercised by differing viewpoints.

A forum, which is what this is, is a place where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.



Again, I'm hoping Greta Gerwig gets up there. Her first two movies were huge hits and Oscar nominees. The lack of female appreciation makes me eager to see Greta shine.
IMO Greta Gerwig's Little Women sucked and if that's the best she can do as a director she'd be better off sticking to acting.

So you are wanting to see more appreciation of female directors? How many of Kelly Reichardt films have you seen? I mentioned her name here but I don't recall you commenting on her.



Again, I'm hoping Greta Gerwig gets up there. Her first two movies were huge hits and Oscar nominees. The lack of female appreciation makes me eager to see Greta shine.
IMO Greta Gerwig's Little Women sucked and if that's the best she can do as a director she'd be better off sticking to acting.

So you are wanting to see more appreciation of female directors? How many of Kelly Reichardt films have you seen? I mentioned her name here but I don't recall you commenting on her.
Good point. I loved Night Moves (2013), it was brilliant, and I spent years not knowing it was directed by a woman. I do think it comes back to the quality of the work having precedence over anything else and especially the characteristics of the creator.