Bad Movies by Great Directors?

I'm not so much putting Tarantino on their level, as much as just showing the value of indulgence in cinema. Or any artform. Even if QT is one or two or a hundred steps behind the true visionaries, doesn't mean he shouldn't be indulging himself. It's how an artist gets their DNA into their work. Yes, in the case of Tarantino, you get bits and pieces that sort of flub it. But who cares, if the instincts he trusts give us the scenes that work so well. And I'm also not one much for 'well, couldn't he have just cut the bad stuff and left in the good stuff'. The old White Album argument. It treats the idea of a perfect product blotting out the value of an imperfect one (when they really can have equal values in a lot of ways). Sometimes its the follies which endear us. Or give us a window into the artists thinking or obsessions.



Basically I don't get, nor do I want to get, how 'indulgent' has become a short form criticism for having one's time wasted. For me, its much more likely those films which stay on this side of good taste and try and give an audience a little machine that works perfectly instead of instinctively, that are the waste of time. Because its in (most cases) through instinct where we find the real emotion. The kind of emotion that isn't manipulative or contrived and designed to have us react in very specific ways. And while on the surface of a Tarantino movie, much of his action may fairly be described as artificial and manipulative, the heart of his films lays elsewhere. It can be found in these love letters he makes to the kinds of films he loves. The kind of actors he wants to cast. The dumb QT beat poetry he wants them to speak. And its in those indulgent intentions where his movies mostly speak to me.


Also, when they are banging, they are entertaining as ****.

Right, I agree with all of that and I think it's great that someone at his level is allowed this freedom. That's pretty rare these days. I wasn't arguing that he shouldn't do it, just that the result isn't always something I enjoy. Watching some people stroke themselves is more entertaining than oth....never mind.

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Captain's Log
My Collection

Disagreeing with people and subsequently presenting your side of an argument is a big part of healthy discourse, and always has been here at MoFo. I read back through some of these exchanges and I don't see Wooley personally going after anyone, instead just presenting and refuting opinion. I do see you dragging Wooley a bit though, yea?

If people didn't disagree and then discuss said disagreements, all the threads would be fairly short and look something like this:

Intersteller is the best movie ever!

"Agree!"

"Agree!"

"Agree!"

Thread Closed.

I doubt the forum would have persisted as long as it has if that was the nature of all the content.

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I may or may not have chosen that specific film with you in mind.

I don't really know why you're discussing Tarantino when the title clearly states "great directors".

Seriously, Tarantino's films are Pseudo-Conservative-Oscarbait-Melodramatic-Bourgeoisie-Grundyism-Kitsch-Freudian-Elementary-Trite-Pretentious-Overblown-Bombastic-Fascist-Rightwing-Neo-McCarthyistic-Sappy-Manipulative-Stale-Racist-Misogynistic-Cookie-Cutter-Xenophobic-Suburban-Generic-Dull-Overlong-Communist-Pandering-Brainwashing-Unoriginal-Hackish-Propaganda that only children and people who haven't seen 3,000 impossibly-obscure Russian arthouse films like.

... or was it Nolan?

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Look, I'm not judging you - after all, I'm posting here myself, but maybe, just maybe, if you spent less time here and more time watching films, maybe, and I stress, maybe your taste would be of some value. Just a thought, ya know.

I wouldn't suggest anyone needs to like his movies because of their indulgences (they should like them because he's a prodigy that mainstream cinema almost never sees). What I'm suggesting is they shouldn't dismiss him because of them.

Gotta haul this back out from the All-Time Refresh list:

Because we have opinions based on what we like and why that are unchanged by whether "normies" share them, or indeed any concern at all for how it looks or what group of people may be associated with it.

As a Pseudo-Conservative Communist Hard Left Right Wing Hack, I approve!

Let's get back to talking about how Inception is a classic.

(Pssst, Intersteller is the best move of all time)

"I'm so happy to be part of this community where I can post dismissive comments about everything/anything so I can be alienated from everyone until it's as if I wasn't part of this community at all!"

Agreed, I wish he didn't get on my nerves so often because we need more of this stuff at the mainstream/big budget level.

For the record, even my least favorite QT movies are ones that I enjoy. Haven't seen Hollywood yet.

Best movie!

Oh, I'm as normie-repellent as it gets. I showed a continual involution from the utopian film recommendation sage for cinephiles worldwide to a narrow-minded jaded anti-social bore. When I converse with persons on this webpage, I'm clad in a starched coat and a dashing bowtie. My waggish ways are long gone now, replaced by equivocal naughtiness. My shenanigans are slowly encroaching on the fiendish, inhuman coxcombry that makes my posts borderline discourteous. Indecent, impolite, and immature, I will now rewatch Kill Bill so that a hopeful reassessment of its qualities makes me end up in love with this notorious beaut of a film.

Every Right-Wing Communist must be a Nolan fan.

Minio in two words? Yes, this.

I'd rather stick to An Insightful Poster, thank you.

John Carpenter: Prince of Darkness - It comes across like a rehash of Assault of Precinct 13 and The Thing and the religion vs. science theme isn't done all that interestingly. Plus, it's not very scary.

John Woo: Broken Arrow - A pretty dull action/political thriller that's only notable to me for being the movie for which Siskel changed his thumbs up to a thumbs down.

Tony Scott: Man on Fire - I know it's pretty well loved, but when I wasn't laughing at the unintentional comedy, I found it to be a slog to get through.

Agree on the second and third films here, but man... Prince of Darkness RULES! I just adore that thing to death!

It was disappointing because on paper, it seems like a movie I would like; plus, there's people like Donald Pleasance, James Hong and Dennis Dun in the cast! Oh well, it seems to be a love it or hate it kind of movie of his.
For what it's worth, I haven't seen Vampires, Ghosts of Mars, The Ward, i.e., movies that are considered his real low points. Oh, and I did enjoy Escape from L.A.

Ghosts of Mars is really rough. I haven't seen The Ward.