Citizen Rules...Cinemaesque Chat-n-Review

Marilyn Monroe is smokin' hot in this...Tony Curtis & Jack Lemmon are riotously funny...the supporting cast is a hoot, and the shooting location exotic, but the real star of 1959's Some Like it Hot is Billy Wilder himself.

These days movie fans give a huge amount of credit to the director, but a movie is only as good as its script and if one thing is true of a Billy Wilder film, they have great scripts! Wilder's scripts often pushed the boundaries on social conventions, that's what makes his films so memorable.

Some Like it Hot took 1950's audiences on an adult themed comic ride, while exploring male/female gender roles. It does this exploration coupled with a well though out story of 1929's Probation gangsters who rub out the competition in the infamous St Valentine's Day massacre. By combing different genres, Wilder is able to give a believably real motivation to our two cross dressing stars. His film goes much deeper than just a Milton Berle style shtick of a man in a dress...Wilder comes up with a real motivation for our two fellows to have to really live as women, so they can save their own lives! That makes a huge difference to the scope of how they act and interact, as women in the movie.

What struck me as very interesting was that Lemmon and Curtis don't hold back as female impersonators. One would expect a 1950's film to have them doing cheap gags, but the two for most of the film behave as if they were women, especially Lemmon. One of the film's funniest parts was towards the end when Lemmon has convinced himself that he's a girl (by repeating over and over) then has a hot date with veteran comic actor Joe E. Brown. The next day he/she is all giddy over the diamond bracelet and announces he/she will marry the millionaire. That prompts the line from Tony Curtis:
"You're a guy! And why would a guy want to marry a guy?"
Just the idea that Jack Lemmon living as a girl would marry Joe E. Brown must have ruffled more than a few feathers....Billy Wilder is really pushing the envelope by exploring different aspects of genderism here.

The film is fun without being overly silly, it flows without ever going astray. I loved the idea of using older actors from the 1930s to play the gangsters in this period piece film. We not only get George Raft but Joe E Brown, Pat O'Brien to name a few old timers...And then there's Marilyn in that Orry-Kelly gown, damn I though she was topless for a second! What a provocative dress! Even the back side stuns with a deep plunge right down to her assets.

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Wow you really hated Some Like it Hot

Before he was making talkies with John Wayne, director John Ford was cutting his film teeth making grand epic silent films. I'd call his silent film, 3 Bad Men a masterpiece of story telling and a cinematographic tour de force. I mean, wholly oxen, there were sure a lot of horses in the race for gold country scene! Talk about staging and use of extras, I mean those wide angle shots are something special to behold.

And there were even some big strong oxen with equally big heavy yokes pulling those wagons. Which is historical correct...I believe that the pioneers favored oxen over horses to pull those prairie schooners across the plains, as horses tired to easy.

As much as I was impressed with the on location shots and the massive staging of men and beast, the story itself lost me at times. Oh, it's a richly detailed story with many a character. But for me in the 21st century I find silent films hard enough to follow but when they have complex stories I get a tad bit distracted...not the movies fault though. Though it's a film that requires full attention.

I guess I didn't really ever care much or feel I knew the characters. The 3 bad men seemed to be the most fleshed out, with the most personalities. I can't say the dark haired girl or her boyfriend had much character development, and I'm still confused about the bad guy sheriff. I mean I know he was a baddie, buy why was he so bad? And why was he and like a 100 men trying to stop or kill the lead wagon? Was it just to get first choice in the land grab?

I'm a little surprised at this rating. I might have agreed with it when I first saw the film as my parents took me to see it and I had little understanding who the characters were supposed to be - all I realized was that Peter Falk seemed to be imitating Humphrey Bogart for some reason.

Your criticisms are valid, but the movie is a comedy spoof not just of famous detectives but of books & movies that came before (people invited to a house who begin to disappear one by one).

This is a movie that's gotten better for me over time, probably because as I got older I became more aware of the characters being spoofed. (I only saw my first Nick & Nora "Thin Man" movie a few years ago.)

I kind of liked the humor for the type of satirical film this is (the jokes aren't all home runs, but consistently silly enough for chuckles.) Most of all I liked the concept of bringing unrelated characters who never could meet due to copy-right laws together in one place (thus my thread about crossover films).

I used to dislike the non-ending ending (as it intentionally makes no sense), yet I've even grown to appreciate that as Simon's mockery of poorly ended (cop out) detective fiction... (nothing more frustrating than a detective novel that makes little sense at the end, or has the culprit be someone barely mentioned in the plot or some other lame contrivance where the author couldn't bring all the loose ends together.)

It reminded me of Airplane!

I was waiting for that!

Fun trivia: William Powell originated the screen persona of Nick Charles in the first set of Thin Man movies. David Niven played the spoofed version (Dick Charleston) in Murder by Death. William Powell originated the screen persona of Godfrey in My Man Godfrey in 1936. David Niven reprised the role in a remake in 1957. (Was this an impetus to cast him in the role satirizing Powell's Nick Charles?)

Personal trivia: Due to Murder by Death, I spent decades thinking the characters of Nick & Nora Charles were a couple of married British slueths (due to their spoofed portrayal by David Niven & Maggie Smith), but later learned they were always 100% American in both book & movie form as played by William Powell and Myrna Loy!

I've only seen one Thin Man movie, the first with Powell and Loy. I liked it, but not all that much. So I don't really have a connection to those characters.

Me neither, but it was only on a re-watch of Murder by Death that I became re-aware of them, so when I saw The Thin Man (most likely on TCM) not long after that I thought I'd check it out (expecting something British!)
I was surprised to learn the characters weren't British!

P.S. I also used to get the The Thin Man and The Third Man mixed up by their titles - that is until I watched them! For a long time I thought "The Thin Man" was kind of a joke about Orson Welles, or an irony that he starred in it, then got quite fat later in life... when actually I just had the titles mixed up!

and don't forget about The Fat Man (1951), also not a sequel to The Thin Man

LOL! I've never seen that one!

More trivia: Peter Falk and Eileen Brennen kind of reprised their roles from Murder by Death (1976) in The Cheap Detective (1978).

Yet, this was not a sequel or a prequel, nor were they playing the same characters (although I hear Falk essentially did the same shtick: imitating his "Sam Diamond" imitating Bogey's "Sam Spade").

I've never actually seen it, but hear the leads were mostly the same characters... mostly.

MBD alumni James Coco was in it also.

The Cheap Detective (1978) might be more to my liking. Interesting, I've never heard of that one. I'm not a fan of Peter Falk, but I should give that one a try.

Singin' in the Rain is my favorite musical, being one of the first non-Disney ones I saw as a kid. There were Singin' in the Rain, The Wizard of Oz, and a couple of Rodgers and Hammerstein movies, but this was a standout for the way it handled the early cinema culture.

It's been a while since I saw it, but if I remember correctly, The Cheap Detective was less goofy than Murder by Death, and it had more of a straight-forward plot than Murder by Death. It was more of a Bogart spoof than a bunch of old detectives.

The Cheap Detective was not as good as Murder by Death, but since you didn't like Murder by Death, maybe you'll like The Cheap Detective.

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If I answer a game thread correctly, just skip my turn and continue with the game.
OPEN FLOOR.

I was thinking of looking for it, that is if I can find it.

Emotionally a very powerful film and that's thanks to the two wonderful leads, Janet Gaynor and Charles Farrell. Both seemed very human, and that's something that isn't always the case with silent films. In 7th Heaven the couple really shines and drew me into their world, where desperation is swept aside by a strong belief in one's self. That's a great conceptual theme for a movie. That idea is shown at the start of the film as Diane (Janet Gaynor) lacks belief in her own future and literally lays down in the street to die. That's after having been beat by her wickedly cruel, absinthe guzzling sister. It's Chico (Charles Farrell) who's a unique fellow (kinda of like me) who believes hard enough and positive enough that he makes his own heaven on Earth. I loved that line they had, Chico - Diane - Heaven!...That says more than many sound films ever do. It's a great tribute to the power of love, I bet Huey Lewis would agree

Janet Gaynor was so good at evoking empathy that one just wants to hold her little head up and say, 'Believe! Diane, like Chico believes and you won't be afraid anymore.'

I like the way the director uses the climbing of the stair case to the attic apartment to represent and ascent to heaven. I also liked how he used the dangerous looking catwalk to represent mind over matter, with fear being defeated by hope and love.

I kind of wish the ending had been more bittersweet with Chico not returning from the war. In that way Diane who naturally would be devastated by his death, has to then ultimately carry on the lesson Chico taught her and continue to believe that heaven is where you make it.