Capitalism, can it work?

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will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
How capitalism works or does it?

by Hrfankell Haraldsson




Republicans say they are big fans of capitalism – and of a laissez faire approach to economics – that is, opposed to government interference. A laissez faire approach fits low-wage Republicanism very well as a descriptor, with its opposition to such things as minimum wage. Michele Bachmann, for example, said in June she would eliminate the minimum wage, claiming it would stimulate the economy and “virtually wipe out unemployment.” Never mind that even with minimum wage people are having a hard time making ends meet.
George Stephanopoulos asked her after she declared her candidacy if she meant to stick by that position and her response was 100% Republican mantra:
“I think we need to look at all regulations, whatever–whatever ones are inhibiting job growth,” she said.
All regulations,” she reiterated when asked if that meant minimum wage as well.

Conservapedia defines capitalism in these terms:
Capitalism is a free market economic system based on private ownership and entrepreneurship. The investment of capital, and production, distribution, income, and prices are determined not by government (as in socialism) but through the operation of a competitive market where decisions are voluntary and private rather than regulated and mandated by government (see law of supply and demand).
Rick Perry epitomizes the Republican position:
“America is not going to move forward until we remove restrictions of over-taxation, over-regulation and over-litigation on the job creators and free them so the jobs can be created.”
To find any fault at all with capitalism is heresy for Republicans. As Paul Krugman explains, Republican propaganda asserts that “any effort to mitigate poverty and inequality was highly irresponsible and that anyone who suggested that unmitigated capitalism was unjust and could be improved was a dangerous radical, contaminated by European ideas.”
Conservapedia claims,
Historically, capitalism has fostered freedom and an increase in the standard of living and human rights, and vice versa. Societies that have tried non-capitalist systems inevitably fall into tyranny.
There are obvious problems with this claim. For example, socialist countries Denmark and Finland (whom we shall meet again below) are not tyrannies). But Democrats are not advocating an end to capitalism, whatever Republicans argue; they are arguing for a regulated capitalism.
Timothy Ferris argues that Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations “may be the one book between Newton’s Principia and Darwin’s Origin of Species that actually, substantially, and almost immediately started improving the quality of human life and thought.”

And in fact, Smith did not argue against regulation, saying that such restrictions are appropriate when required to keep the market fair and free. But folks, fair has been thrown under the bus. Capitalism in America isn’t true capitalism anymore because left alone it ceased being fair (look at the evils of the Gilded Age). It’s still free but (as with the rise in gas prices) no longer fair – demanding government intervention. Without it, we will certainly see Gilded Age 2 and that is the effect of Republican control of the economy, to drive a greater wedge between the haves and have-nots, while Democratic control of the economy narrows the gap.
Unsurprisingly, given the conservative penchant for co-opting and redefining, Conservapedia cites Adam Smith to buttress Republican rhetoric on the subject but as John Paul Rollert explains in Salon, Republicans get Smith all wrong:
It [Republican rhetoric] is founded on a bedrock belief about the free market, one that answers What makes capitalism work? by addressing a different question: Who? For that is what is at stake in the term “job creators,” a vision of capitalism’s essential players, one very different from the original account provided by Adam Smith. His account of who makes capitalism work is at odds with the one we are used to. The essential players are found at the base, not the apex, of the economic pyramid.
Citing the example of Andrew Carnegie and Ayn Rand, Rollet points out,
Instead of “the assistance and co-operation of many thousands,” it is an elite caste that provides the vision, brains, and organizational savvy that ensure a thriving economy. They are the Visible Hand of capitalism, and for Carnegie, Rand, and others like them, if you want to know who makes capitalism work, simply stand at the base of the economic pyramid and look up. You’ll find the “job creators” at the very top.
Obviously, these job creators are not creating jobs, thus making mockery of Republicans claims about the virtues of unfettered capitalism. If it worked it would be…well, working. They’d be creating jobs. Manifestly, they are not. The Republican House hasn’t created even one since 2010. The job creators, with the tacit support of Republican legislators at both the state and federal level, are hoarding capital, investing it abroad, dodging taxes, and shipping jobs overseas.
And blaming Obama for it.

And much as Republicans like to decry the evils of socialism, Denmark and Finland, both socialistic, are among “the ten most economically competitive nations in the world.” Ferris’ conclusion is (and he points out that Smith anticipated this) that “there is no one right solution for all peoples when it comes to the proper economic role of government.”

So ignore the example of the Danes and Finns if you will, but in the United States the economy has functioned better under the Democrats than the Republicans, spending less, growing government less, and all the while (1948-2007) producing a per capital GDP of +2.8 percent compared to 1.6 percent under the Republicans. Not only that, but the Democrats have produced higher family income growth. Consider the fact that $10,000 invested in stock market index securities during the forty years that Democrats have occupied the White House (1929-2008) and you end up with over $300,000. The same $10,000 invested during Republican administrations will give you just $51,000.

Do the math.
Let’s return to Paul Krugman:
As Adam Smith saw, and many generations of economists have elaborated, markets often have a way of getting self-interest to serve the common good. Individuals seeking only gain for themselves are led, “as by an invisible hand,” to produce goods that other people need, when they need them.
But, as he points out, “sometimes markets don’t work.” The Great Depression is incontrovertible evidence of this. In stepped the government, setting things to right and pulling the nation out of the Great Depression. Hitler followed the same course, spending Germany out of the Great Depression. It worked. Just as the stimulus spending at the end of Bush’s second term and the beginning of Obama’s administration, worked to stabilize the economy.

Other than government spending, another essential source is consumer spending – the demand schedule of the supply and demand model. If people don’t have money to spend (i.e. jobs that pay enough to keep a family’s needs met) it doesn’t matter how much the public “needs” a good or service; they can’t purchase it. And you need a job to purchase anything at all – remember, the guys the Republicans place at the apex of capitalism aren’t creating those, no matter how much money we give them.

Remember, it was the laissez faire approach of the Bush administration and unfettered capitalism that caused the Great Recession in the first place. Just as they did after the Great Depression, some economists wanted to, in Krugman’s words, “return to the old faith.” Milton Friedman even offered the ridiculous claim that it was the government that caused the Great Depression. This “free-market fundamentalism” is a danger to us all.

Once burned, twice shy, you’d think, but we’ve been burned twice and if the Republicans have their way, we’ll be burned a third time. Will the American people ever learn? It should be abundantly clear to all that the Republicans will not. Their ideology insists on the rightness of their course; reality doesn’t enter into it. And so we will ride the same horse over the same cliff for a third time expecting different results – Einstein’s definition of madness made manifest.
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It reminds me of a toilet paper on the trees
- Paula



A system of cells interlinked
That you for this treatise on your politic. Say, when are you posting some information on capitalism?
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” ― Thomas Sowell



The meaning of Capitalism is a contradiction.

The basis of 'Capitalism' is that anyone and everyone is completely free to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to progress themself in whatever way they see fit... in other words... to have a lack of a Government/hierarchy/someone in charge.

Never in the history of the world has there ever been nobody in charge. Nor will there ever be.
Government, policing, laws, Royalty. None would exist if Capitalism was possible.

Capitalism doesn't work, simply because it can't technically exist. It's impossible for it to exist.
Example: Breaking it down to the purest form... a parent is 'over' their child. Immediately meaning Capitalism doesn't exist.



The meaning of Capitalism is a contradiction.

The basis of 'Capitalism' is that anyone and everyone is completely free to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to progress themself in whatever way they see fit... in other words... to have a lack of a Government/hierarchy/someone in charge.

Never in the history of the world has there ever been nobody in charge. Nor will there ever be.
Government, policing, laws, Royalty. None would exist if Capitalism was possible.

Capitalism doesn't work, simply because it can't technically exist. It's impossible for it to exist.
Example: Breaking it down to the purest form... a parent is 'over' their child. Immediately meaning Capitalism doesn't exist.
This is a description of Anarchism, not Capitalism. Capitalism, like any political word, has all sorts of fluctuating connotations, but in its most basic form is simply means that the means of production are controlled privately.

EDIT: I should add that I might have misunderstood part of this, since you're apparently saying there's no such thing as Capitalism. What word would you use to describe nations that we tend to think of as Capitalist?



Wasn't the US built on Capitalism and we seeing how that worked out, now? lol!



Leaving aside the sketchiness of the idea that anything that happens to the U.S. is the result of it being capitalist...yeah, let's see how it worked out. We have a $14+ trillion economy after a major recession. We are the wealthiest nation in the history of the world.

I'm gonna give that result one of these:



Why is the US so fearful of China? In 20 years they will be the wealthiest nation of earth.



I'd bet against that (China, I mean); people said the same thing about Japan in the late 80s. But let's say it's true: I'm pretty sure the American system looks pretty good if it manages to "only" be the richest nation in the history of the world for half a century, and then plummets all the way down to second.

Also, remember that we're talking about capitalism, not America. I think it's perfectly plausible that other countries may surpass us; but if they do, I'll bet it'll happen after a) they embrace more capitalistic policies and/or b) we embrace less capitalistic policies.



Who is Australia biggest market?



I'm not sure I understand; are you asking what it's biggest export is? Who buys the most products from it? How big its economy is compared to others?



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Except for the part where standards of living rise dramatically for everyone in society.
When did that happen?

Not in the 19th century which was closest to the pure capitalist model.



I'll try to put it another way. Our employment rate is about 5.2 % why is it low compared to the rest of the world? Because without China we're nothing. James Packer, son of Kerry Packer is investing Billions in Casino's in Macao. The Chinese love to bet and they have the money. Most of our products come from China and we have the bonus, as we export Iron Ore and so on.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
I don't know when it is going to happen, but the China Express is going to crash in a much bigger way than Japan. And we are going to get screwed when it happens because we have become too economically dependant on them. But we will still be better off than they will be.

Watch out for India, not China.



Actually China is down at the moment, not greatly, but enough.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
I'll try to put it another way. Our employment rate is about 5.2 % why is it low compared to the rest of the world? Because without China we're nothing. James Packer, son of Kerry Packer is investing Billions in Casino's in Macao. The Chinese love to bet and they have the money. Most of our products come from China and we have the bonus, as we export Iron Ore and so on.
In that case, when China goes down if you are that dependant on them you guys go down with them.

I can't believe they can keep that going on forever because they keep shifting gears. Inflation a problem, slow the economy. Oh, it is slowing too much? Build a bunch of roads to nowhere and city nobody wants to live in. Oh, inflation getting out of control again, tighten monetary policy, then loosen it again. I don't believe in a completely unregulated economy, but they are ridiculous.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Actually China is down at the moment, not greatly, but enough.
My prediction it will get much worse. Right now is nothing compared to what is coming.