Anyone thinking about the 08 election?

I find politics annoying yet intrigging.
I can not wait to vote.
Even tough I feel like it does not matter.

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Princess j.t.

Why do you find it doesn't matter, but you can't wait to vote?

I am excited to see Bush go. But I am nervous to see what happens when he's gone. What will happen to the world? Will the next president be able to resolve the mess he made, or is the world too deep in the crap and there is no way out? It's like a real life cliffhanger movie.

But I can't vote in the US, since I'm not a US citizen. But in Canada's last election I declined my ballot because I didn't agree with any of the (idiots) running.

So I am just wondering if you are voting because you feel you are "supposed" to (and just picking whoever at random) or if you will be declining or spoiling your ballot? And what is your reasoning behind feeling like it doesn't matter?

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^^id vote for ya

im in england and im more concerned with american politics than i am with my own government. Im currently backing Clinton.

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Undercoverlovers 100 REDUX

Heh. There it is, already. If things are terrible, it's the remnants of Bush's decisions. If things get better, well, thank God we were able to overcome the mess he left behind. Interesting to see how the rhetoric will play out on that side of the aisle, regardless of various outcomes.

Everyone has their own opinion. Me? I'm gonna go out on a crazy limb and say that freeing tens of millions of people = good. But I've always had this bizarre anti-dictator streak, so I'm biased.

To answer the thread's question: yeah, I'm thinking about them. Partly because I'll probably be called on to do some more election analysis leading up to them. But I think some candidates are shooting themselves in the foot by announcing so incredibly early. At some point, I imagine there'd be a burnout/backlash effect of some kind.

And not that anyone asked, but I can't think of any viable candidate I'd be more likely to vote for than John McCain. If he gets through the primaries, I pity whoever opposes him the general election.

Well, yes. Can anyone deny Bush made terrible decisions? We all make terrible decisions, including Presidents. And I think the Bush administration made huge mistakes with the "war on terror." But that's old news, so I digress.
If things get better (as in the current war the US is in ending) then wouldn't the new President have something to do with it? Even just a little? If things stay the same or get worse, then wouldn't the new President have something to do with that?
Have you ever had to clean up someone's else's mess? I have and it's a difficult job. It's hopeless.
In all honesty I don't think we can overcome the mess and I'm not about to spew my mouth off with solutions, either; since my opinions don't matter to anyone but myself. All I can do is sit back and helplessly watch this world fall apart. And it's not just the mess I think Bush made, but it's everybody on the planet. That's a whole other topic of discussion. And I am feeling too apathetic to even begin talking about that.

There are other ways besides torture and murder to free tens of millions of people. But I've always been a bizarre moral person, so I am biased.

Man, don't even get me started on John McCain.

I'm very much thinking about the '08 election for the sole fact that this will by the first time I'll be able to vote and that's a big deal for me.

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"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza

Ooh, I like this thread. And, look! It's got Yoda in it too!!

You're right, that is a good thing. Too bad everything else in Iraq went exactly as how us who were skeptical about the war expected it to go.

Is Condoleezza going to run?

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

It will be my first time voting. The Anticipation is killing me

Yup, it's a very exciting prospect.

Well, I certainly won't argue that even Presidents make terrible decisions. The implication you were making with Bush, however, is that he made more than his share (correct me if I'm wrong, of course). It's that notion that I'd take issue with. I won't doubt that significant mistakes were made; I just don't know that any war is going to be "clean."

Depends on what they do, I suppose. What I was thinking of when I said that, however, is that even if Iraq stabilizes in a decade or so, and even if the Middle East does slowly come around to democracy further down the line, it's quite clear that a great many folks will try to pretend Bush had nothing to do with it. Whether it works out or not, our actions in the area are a first step towards those goals.

Heh. I'm the oldest of seven children, so I can answer with a very emphatic "yes!"


Okay then.

Ah, but this is only relevant if you only disagree with the execution of the war, rather than the decision itself.

And, like you, I'm too apathetic to get into the whole "torture" debate, beyond saying that I think the definition of "torture" has been changing rather dramatically as of late.

Hehe. Good to see you again, Peter.

It is too bad. Then again, we all know it's a hard fact of life that there is always a great price for things like this. You can't put a price on human life, or suffering, but you can't put a price on human freedom, either. Just goes to show how many impossible philosophical questions the war raises.

Anyway, my comment was a bit pithy, I admit, but it was shorthand for a larger point, which is that, given enough time, people tend to think that the loss of life involved in freeing people is worth it in the long run. I don't know if this is fair or true, and I'm sure that, to some families, it isn't much comfort. But it is worth considering, especially today, where people seem intent on drawing conclusions in months rather than years, or years, rather than decades.

She's denied it repeatedly, and I certainly believe her.

She'd be such a bizarre candidate! Neoconservative foreign policy, African-American, a woman, and pro-choice. Utterly unique. What an incredible woman.

I can't believe I'm saying this but, I'm hoping Hilary gets the presidency. Why can't I believe I'm saying this? Well, I guess the fact of hearing both my parents and grandparents saying they hatred her and wouldn't vote for her kind of rooted inside my brain. As such, I just dismissed her and said I wouldn't vote for her. However, after looking at her record on "ontheissues.org", I can honestly say I shall be voting for her if she gets the candidacy for the Democratic ticket. Kind of odd how kids grow up, eh?

The problem is that the Iraqi people isn't one single united people which results in some of them feeling that they've been cheated, some who feel they haven't been freed enough and some who just want to be left alone. And in all fairness, the campaign in Iraq had very little to do with freeing people in the beginning - it was about securing the safety of the American people from WMDs. And the Iraqi hostility against Americans have not decreased since the invasion, which is another proof of how unsuccessful Bush's crusade has been.

The best thing, seen from a global perspective, that Bush can do right now, is to step down immediately. The sooner he goes, the better. I think he's been an exceptionally bad president. I don't think in 20 years we will think of him as the one who sparked the "Middle East democratization". Iraq is a democracy allready, technically speaking. But I mean, so is Iran....

The biggest mistake the USA have made in Iraq is thinking they were the ones who could decide the price of Iraqi freedom. Even if it's Iraqis killing Iraqis in all these bombings there are a lot of Iraqis that are blaming America for every single victim. And there are A LOT of victims. America is stuck in a huge Catch 22. You can't leave because then you're letting the Iraqis down, and you can't stay because it upsets the American people too much to have their troops in a land fighting for.. what?

Too bad she's not running. She would be a very interesting candidate.

I agree with Piddy!

And I also would like to see Hilary as President! Too bad Bill couldn't run again though....

Well, I think he did make more than his fair share. Type in "Bush mistakes" in the search engine to read more about it.


But why would we have to pretend he had nothing to do with it? How would Bush have anything to do with it further down the road? What good has Bush done for Iraquis and Americans since he has been in presidency? I am asking because I would like to know. All I am seeing is a hilariously poor speach giver which has made for great t-shirts and calendars, and a great dinner time topic of conversation.



But once you are forced into the war, you are stuck there. Do you see a way out without causing a full blown world war? 'Cause I don't.

Unfortunately, McCain is not the best choice for the country or for the republican "radical right/family values" crowd, although one of the most "viable" candidates for taking a large swath from the Democrats and Independents (Giuliani being a close second). Giuliani, IMO is the single best choice for the republican party at this time, and the single best choice for the country as far as a Republican goes. Hes Liberal enough on social issues and tough enough to survive criticism from both sides. He's fiscally conservative yet willing to try a "by any means necessary" approach including taking ideas from both sides of the aisle.

I'm a big Lefty, given my druthers I would love to see a Democratic administration, but until all the BS pre-election infighting cools down I don't see any viable candidate on the Democratic side, yet.

I'm in favor of early debates, all the candidates on both sides coming together to debate and discuss, a glorified town hall meeting. I think they should take place over a period of months and be open to anyone of any affiliation who qualifies (by law) to run. They should happen every month from July until the election and they should take place over three days. That kind of round robin, open and honest discussion would do wonders to clarify the similarities and differences between the candidates and NOT their respective parties.

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"You have to believe in God before you can say there are things that man was not meant to know. I don't think there's anything man wasn't meant to know. There are just some stupid things that people shouldn't do." -David Cronenberg

No.

Politics has, of late, become a big joke and guess who's the object of said joke?

Anyways, of course I'm thinking about the election but have yet to see anyone stepping up that can represent me.

As Yoda said, McCain is the best option as yet.

Here in Australia we HAVE to vote or we are fined we are having a state election tomorrow, I might vote for the Marijuana party they at least promote love not war

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Health is the greatest gift, contentment the greatest wealth, faithfulness the best relationship.
Buddha