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Oh, children.

CHILD: Hey, you're wearing two masks!
ME: Yup!
CHILD: Is that on accident?
ME: NOPE!

Not five minutes later . . .

CHILD: Wow! So many people are missing today.

7 out of my 24 students were out today. 5 confirmed with COVID, 1 unknown, and 1 with a serious-but-not-COVID virus.

Anyway, teaching to only 70% of the class is awesome, just awesome. Especially when you're building understanding and 30% of the class is going to walk back in next week with no clue.



So if he'd said "I disagree with my co-worker going on a cruise" instead of "I want my co-worker to not go on a cruise", there wouldn't have been any conversation?
Yes to me it's a big difference.

Again: in the absence of any power (which he does not have), it doesn't matter how strong a word want is.
"Despite this, I have taken zero steps to prevent the cruise from happening."

Am I the only one who read that and thought WTF?

But you understand that the behavior of other people directly impacts his ability in terms of protecting himself and by extension his mother, right? Because if the people around you aren't taking precautions (masking, hand-washing, etc), that increases your risk. He doesn't have the luxury of not caring about his co-worker's behavior. And he's allowed to vent about that a bit.
Of course other people affect us all. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter if a cruise is unnecessary or if grocery shopping is. He doesn't want to get the virus, but all of his co-workers present a risk. Why single out 1 person just because you don't agree with his choice? If you want one co-worker tested before work, you should want all of them tested before work. They all present risk it doesn't matter where they've been, to think otherwise is a mistake.

Again, and I have no clue why this keeps getting brought up, but nobody ever suggested he couldn't vent.



What happened to the place you lived where you had a lovely garden? Did you move?
Yes sold the house in October and moved into an apartment. Now I've got to wear a mask to bring the dogs out



Oh, children.

CHILD: Hey, you're wearing two masks!
ME: Yup!
CHILD: Is that on accident?
ME: NOPE!

Not five minutes later . . .

CHILD: Wow! So many people are missing today.

7 out of my 24 students were out today. 5 confirmed with COVID, 1 unknown, and 1 with a serious-but-not-COVID virus.

Anyway, teaching to only 70% of the class is awesome, just awesome. Especially when you're building understanding and 30% of the class is going to walk back in next week with no clue.
My wife's best friend is a teacher, tested positive today.



Yes to me it's a big difference.
Feels like semantic quibbling, but okay.

"Despite this, I have taken zero steps to prevent the cruise from happening."

Am I the only one who read that and thought WTF?
This is clearly a response to my post earlier saying that, as far as we knew, he had not done anything (complained to HR, made a scene at work, confronted the co-worker, etc). He is confirming my assumption that he's taken zero action to prevent/guilt-trip the co-worker or make the co-worker's life more difficult in any way.

Why single out 1 person just because you don't agree with his choice?
.
.
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They all present risk it doesn't matter where they've been, to think otherwise is a mistake.
There are obviously other considerations here aside from just the cruise. This co-worker does not mask properly. And the remark about him playing his music loudly in a shared space gives us a window into a situation where someone is working with a person who consistently shows casual disregard for the people around him. When it feels like that disregard is impacting your likelihood of getting sick and, by extension, endangering a loved one, it starts to feel personal.

And while everyone does present some risk, it's not true that all risk is created equal. My student who attended a NASCAR event unmasked and takes off his mask to sneeze does not present the same risk to me as the child who spends his evenings at home with his father, masks appropriately, and washes/sanitizes his hands when appropriate.

The person working right next to you at a desk, who doesn't mask properly, and who has the whole "I'm living my life!" attitude is certainly more of a risk that co-workers who sit further away, mask properly, and take fewer risks in terms of exposure.

Again, and I have no clue why this keeps getting brought up, but nobody ever suggested he couldn't vent.
As long as he uses the word "disagree" instead of "don't want".



My wife's best friend is a teacher, tested positive today.
Oh, boo. Hopefully their symptoms stay mild. My friend is currently fighting it and she's been pretty shocked at how bad it is. Not requiring hospitalization, but she said this is the first time she's really experienced shortness of breath.

While my main anxiety is giving it to my parents or sister, I also have to admit that getting COVID right now would be awful for me, professionally. I cannot emphasize enough just how much WORK it is to not be at school in person. A personal day or sick day doesn't just mean staying home. I have to write up a script, basically, for the substitute; my class this year is a really rough group and they are hard on subs and really misbehave when I am not there; then you come back and have to deal with the fallout of whatever happened while you were out. If I get sick, I have to stay home for 5 days. I'm twitchy just thinking about it.



Yes sold the house in October and moved into an apartment. Now I've got to wear a mask to bring the dogs out
That’s a big change. I know you loved your garden. The dogs did too.

While my main anxiety is giving it to my parents or sister, I also have to admit that getting COVID right now would be awful for me, professionally. I cannot emphasize enough just how much WORK it is to not be at school in person. A personal day or sick day doesn't just mean staying home. I have to write up a script, basically, for the substitute; my class this year is a really rough group and they are hard on subs and really misbehave when I am not there; then you come back and have to deal with the fallout of whatever happened while you were out. If I get sick, I have to stay home for 5 days. I'm twitchy just thinking about it.
Teachers & nurses have it the worst. The NY Times covers teachers every single day all over the States. The stress & fatigue must be so horrible, I don’t know how you do it. I would imagine when you finally get home that it takes hours to decompress.
__________________
I’m here only on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays. That’s why I’m here now.



Feels like semantic quibbling, but okay.

This is clearly a response to my post earlier saying that, as far as we knew, he had not done anything (complained to HR, made a scene at work, confronted the co-worker, etc). He is confirming my assumption that he's taken zero action to prevent/guilt-trip the co-worker or make the co-worker's life more difficult in any way.
It may seem like semantics, but using the word "want" gave me the impression that the thought of doing something about it popped into his head. When he later commented how he didn't, I don't think it was simply a response to you. I believe he did consider it which is what alarms me and is the reason I questioned him in the first place.

There are obviously other considerations here aside from just the cruise. This co-worker does not mask properly. And the remark about him playing his music loudly in a shared space gives us a window into a situation where someone is working with a person who consistently shows casual disregard for the people around him. When it feels like that disregard is impacting your likelihood of getting sick and, by extension, endangering a loved one, it starts to feel personal.
There may be other considerations for you but I'm just talking about the cruise. As for him not masking properly, he didn't make it clear if it was a company policy, and the guy in question is vaccinated. But add it up with the music issue and sounds like maybe he doesn't like the guy. If that's the case then this is all starting to make sense.

And while everyone does present some risk, it's not true that all risk is created equal. My student who attended a NASCAR event unmasked and takes off his mask to sneeze does not present the same risk to me as the child who spends his evenings at home with his father, masks appropriately, and washes/sanitizes his hands when appropriate.

The person working right next to you at a desk, who doesn't mask properly, and who has the whole "I'm living my life!" attitude is certainly more of a risk that co-workers who sit further away, mask properly, and take fewer risks in terms of exposure.
Not talking about people going home and nowhere else, but rather his other co-workers who are out and about. Comparing risk is a waste of time. If you're going on a cruise or to a store, they're both risky. Believe me I know very well about the latter.


As long as he uses the word "disagree" instead of "don't want".
This is beyond silly. It's ok to disagree with somebody right? Please clarify this because this is stupid. Nobody said he shouldn't share his feelings. It's ok to question them when someone does though right??



Oh, boo. Hopefully their symptoms stay mild. My friend is currently fighting it and she's been pretty shocked at how bad it is. Not requiring hospitalization, but she said this is the first time she's really experienced shortness of breath.

While my main anxiety is giving it to my parents or sister, I also have to admit that getting COVID right now would be awful for me, professionally. I cannot emphasize enough just how much WORK it is to not be at school in person. A personal day or sick day doesn't just mean staying home. I have to write up a script, basically, for the substitute; my class this year is a really rough group and they are hard on subs and really misbehave when I am not there; then you come back and have to deal with the fallout of whatever happened while you were out. If I get sick, I have to stay home for 5 days. I'm twitchy just thinking about it.
It seems like every single person around me has it. Wife, friends, co-workers, neighbors, it's everywhere. Cancelled my dentist appointment for Tuesday and the receptionist said it was her first day back. I'm supposed to testify next Thursday and the assistant to the state's attorney told me she had it last week. It is all around me. Why I keep saying the stores are bad, I deliver to about 80 a week and the employees are dropping like flies, doesn't matter if they're casual or ultra vigilant about safety. This is why I'm saying don't waste time worrying about some dude on a cruise because it's right in front of your face and there's not much you can do about it. And this is in Massachusetts. Sedai posted earlier and he's here too.



That’s a big change. I know you loved your garden. The dogs did too.
They actually love it here more because there's a lot of nice places to walk, 2 dog parks, and a whole lot of doggie friends. When we just went out they were agitated that I couldn't go near anyone.



Teachers & nurses have it the worst. The NY Times covers teachers every single day all over the States. The stress & fatigue must be so horrible, I don’t know how you do it. I would imagine when you finally get home that it takes hours to decompress.
I have a lot of friends in the medical field (EMTs, nurses, doctors, surgeons), and I feel much worse for them because they are actually watching people die.

But this year has been really stressful. It would have been challenging anyway, but I have a really hard time saying no to things. And since none of my co-workers want to take on any extra work right now, I'm in charge of several committees and other responsibilities. We normally run about 8 after-school clubs for our students. This year there are 5 clubs. I am running 2 of them.

It may seem like semantics, but using the word "want" gave me the impression that the thought of doing something about it popped into his head. When he later commented how he didn't, I don't think it was simply a response to you. I believe he did consider it which is what alarms me and is the reason I questioned him in the first place.
I didn't get that impression at all. He made a sarcastic comment about his co-worker making a "great choice." When people were then like "What, you don't want him to LIVE HIS LIFE!?!!" he replied, "No, I don't want him to take a cruise at the height of this surge." I think if you look back, you'll see that the language of "wants" came from those questioning him.

Not talking about people going home and nowhere else, but rather his other co-workers who are out and about. Comparing risk is a waste of time. If you're going on a cruise or to a store, they're both risky. Believe me I know very well about the latter.
Comparing risk is not a waste of time. And it boils down more to the idea of want vs need. Driving to work might be more dangerous than, I don't know, standing in an open field during a thunderstorm for fun. They are both risky behaviors, but one of them is addressing a basic need while the other isn't.

Ultimately, does it make a difference if I catch COVID from someone whose behavior was perfect (by my standards) or from someone who went to this orgy you're all talking about? No. But it FEELS different, right? If someone was carefully handling a weapon and it misfired and shot you in the leg OR if someone is drunk and goes "Yee-haw!" and shoots you in the leg, the result is the same, but you'd probably feel differently about those scenarios, right? Because the sense of someone being indifferent to your wellbeing adds insult to injury.

This is beyond silly. It's ok to disagree with somebody right? Please clarify this because this is stupid. Nobody said he shouldn't share his feelings. It's ok to question them when someone does though right??
My issue is the tone that was taken with his original post.

If I came into a thread and said that I was frustrated that my neighbors are shooting guns really close to my property, including moments where the gun is (momentarily) pointed at my house/barn, would you respond "It doesn't matter what you want" or "Well, no use worrying about it"? I'd hope not.

I actually agree with you that worrying about the behavior of other people is not a good use of mental or emotional energy. But some of us cannot help but feel overwhelmed by having to share work spaces with people who---from our point of view---are being disrespectful by engaging in certain behaviors. And to relieve some of the pressure, some of us come in here and complain. Just like I complained about my co-worker who was at a basketball practice with three COVID positive teenagers and then spent time with me in a room, unmasked, without disclosing that fact.

I'm questioning the value of disagreeing with him in the way it was done.



I didn't get that impression at all. He made a sarcastic comment about his co-worker making a "great choice." When people were then like "What, you don't want him to LIVE HIS LIFE!?!!" he replied, "No, I don't want him to take a cruise at the height of this surge." I think if you look back, you'll see that the language of "wants" came from those questioning him.
It doesn't matter to me where it came from.

Comparing risk is not a waste of time. And it boils down more to the idea of want vs need. Driving to work might be more dangerous than, I don't know, standing in an open field during a thunderstorm for fun. They are both risky behaviors, but one of them is addressing a basic need while the other isn't.
I think it is a waste of time, because you have no clue if that cruise or shopping at Walmart is riskier, but we do know that both are plenty risky. As far as comparing need vs luxury, I do not care since both come with the same potential result.

Ultimately, does it make a difference if I catch COVID from someone whose behavior was perfect (by my standards) or from someone who went to this orgy you're all talking about? No. But it FEELS different, right? If someone was carefully handling a weapon and it misfired and shot you in the leg OR if someone is drunk and goes "Yee-haw!" and shoots you in the leg, the result is the same, but you'd probably feel differently about those scenarios, right? Because the sense of someone being indifferent to your wellbeing adds insult to injury.
Awful analogy since you can't carefully handle a weapon and shoot someone in the leg. What I can tell you is that I don't give 2 craps how I got it.

My issue is the tone that was taken with his original post.

If I came into a thread and said that I was frustrated that my neighbors are shooting guns really close to my property, including moments where the gun is (momentarily) pointed at my house/barn, would you respond "It doesn't matter what you want" or "Well, no use worrying about it"? I'd hope not.
And I told him nothing personal in case of the odd chance that someone may try to decipher tone.

I actually agree with you that worrying about the behavior of other people is not a good use of mental or emotional energy. But some of us cannot help but feel overwhelmed by having to share work spaces with people who---from our point of view---are being disrespectful by engaging in certain behaviors. And to relieve some of the pressure, some of us come in here and complain. Just like I complained about my co-worker who was at a basketball practice with three COVID positive teenagers and then spent time with me in a room, unmasked, without disclosing that fact.
What in the world are you talking about? You like to come in here to complain, yea, so? Nobody said you shouldn't. You do realize you keep trying to convey something that nobody here disagrees with?

I'm questioning the value of disagreeing with him in the way it was done.
I was blunt instead of beating around the bush. You can keep questioning it until you're blue in the face but I have no idea where you expect it will take you.



It doesn't matter to me where it came from.
It should, because you seem to be basing a lot of your response on that word. His use of "want" was a semantic device, in response to a question.

ME: Ugh, my co-worker ate lunch with me without revealing he was exposed. Real cool!
YOU: What, you expect him not to do his job as a coach?
ME: No, I expect him to disclose that he was a close contact.
YOU: Wow, "Expect" is a strong word!

Awful analogy since you can't carefully handle a weapon and shoot someone in the leg.
That is not true. A weapon that you don't realize is damaged can misfire, even with safe handling (happened to my co-worker's husband). But if you want another analogy, sure: someone clearing a table stumbles and a knife falls, stabbing you in the foot. Another person shouts "I'm working on a new circus act" and does their best knife throwing routine, stabbing you in the foot. A person driving down the road suffers a tire blowout, they veer into your lane and hit your car. Someone who is texting while applying makeup and face-timing with a friend veers into your lane and hits your car. The result is the same, the feeling you have about the situations is different. And if your feelings aren't different--ie you don't care why you got stabbed in the foot or run off of the highway--please realize that for many people they would be.

I was blunt instead of beating around the bush. You can keep questioning it until you're blue in the face but I have no idea where you expect it will take you.
I'm not questioning anything. I'm saying I think you were rude and insensitive to what was someone just obviously blowing off some steam. And the way that your remarks were delivered, the main point (that many people in the office may be taking similar or worse risks, that it's exhausting and kind of futile to worry about the behavior of other people) got buried under this weird accusation that he was trying to control his co-worker's behavior when that was so obviously not the case. And I wonder where you think such an approach to another person who is obviously dealing with a stressful situation was going to "take you" (or this discussion).



It should, because you seem to be basing a lot of your response on that word. His use of "want" was a semantic device, in response to a question.

ME: Ugh, my co-worker ate lunch with me without revealing he was exposed. Real cool!
YOU: What, you expect him not to do his job as a coach?
ME: No, I expect him to disclose that he was a close contact.
YOU: Wow, "Expect" is a strong word!
It should? Because you say so? It doesn't.

That is not true. A weapon that you don't realize is damaged can misfire, even with safe handling (happened to my co-worker's husband). But if you want another analogy, sure: someone clearing a table stumbles and a knife falls, stabbing you in the foot. Another person shouts "I'm working on a new circus act" and does their best knife throwing routine, stabbing you in the foot. A person driving down the road suffers a tire blowout, they veer into your lane and hit your car. Someone who is texting while applying makeup and face-timing with a friend veers into your lane and hits your car. The result is the same, the feeling you have about the situations is different. And if your feelings aren't different--ie you don't care why you got stabbed in the foot or run off of the highway--please realize that for many people they would be.
It is true because you don't point a gun at someone. Alec is that you? I'll skip reading the other analogies.

I'm not questioning anything. I'm saying I think you were rude and insensitive to what was someone just obviously blowing off some steam. And the way that your remarks were delivered, the main point (that many people in the office may be taking similar or worse risks, that it's exhausting and kind of futile to worry about the behavior of other people) got buried under this weird accusation that he was trying to control his co-worker's behavior when that was so obviously not the case. And I wonder where you think such an approach to another person who is obviously dealing with a stressful situation was going to "take you" (or this discussion).
Oh so you didn't like it? Don't worry, I won't try to convince you to like it.



It should? Because you say so? It doesn't.
It doesn't? Because you say so? It does.

It is true because you don't point a gun at someone. Alec is that you? I'll skip reading the other analogies.
You're dodging the point because you don't like the literal mechanics of the analogy?

My co-worker's husband was returning a gun to their gun safe when it misfired, going through the wall of their closet and into their son's room. Had their son been sitting at his desk, he would have been struck by the bullet. Maybe "mishandled" is a better word?

Surely you can understand the premise of the analogy even if you don't like the mechanics: injury resulting from what we see as negligent behavior is more frustrating/annoying/offensive/insulting than injury resulting from what we see as acceptable/responsible behavior, even if the outcome is the same.

Oh so you didn't like it? Don't worry, I won't try to convince you to like it.
Okay?



It doesn't? Because you say so? It does.
Yes because I say so, since I was very specifically talking about what matters to me.

You're dodging the point because you don't like the literal mechanics of the analogy?
Good try at a guess but no.

My co-worker's husband was returning a gun to their gun safe when it misfired, going through the wall of their closet and into their son's room. Had their son been sitting at his desk, he would have been struck by the bullet. Maybe "mishandled" is a better word?
Sounds like a fake story but I'll take your word for it.

Surely you can understand the premise of the analogy even if you don't like the mechanics: injury resulting from what we see as negligent behavior is more frustrating/annoying/offensive/insulting than injury resulting from what we see as acceptable/responsible behavior, even if the outcome is the same.
I understand your premise but I do not agree with it. I have Covid, I have no idea how I got it, and I don't care. If Planet Terror got Covid he wouldn't know either. So let's blame people and be mad at someone anyway? Not how I live my life.





I should have just done what my wife did. I waited for 3 hours yesterday and I still don't have results. A friend texted me a while ago, she was upset that she tested positive. I said noooo it's a good thing, because you're ok and getting through it. It's why I'm hoping mine comes back positive.



I'm not questioning anything. I'm saying I think you were rude and insensitive to what was someone just obviously blowing off some steam.
And the poor guy said he didn’t want to talk about it further, but @cricket is still bashing along. You can go all night good buddy.

I should have just done what my wife did. I waited for 3 hours yesterday and I still don't have results. A friend texted me a while ago, she was upset that she tested positive. I said noooo it's a good thing, because you're ok and getting through it. It's why I'm hoping mine comes back positive.
I would freak if I took a test that came back positive. I would be so scared. But, that’s just me.



And the poor guy said he didn’t want to talk about it further, but @cricket is still bashing along. You can go all night good buddy.
I just respond. It confuses me why it keeps going when it does.

I would freak if I took a test that came back positive. I would be so scared. But, that’s just me.
I hear ya, but when you know you're already sick but getting through it ok, having it be Covid and getting it out of the way makes it a relief.

That nail polish suits you.
That's wifey, maybe Saturday night for me