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Movie Forums Top Foreign Language Films Countdown - Preliminary Thread

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@Thursday Next,

If a movie is available in both subtitled and dubbed versions, is it safe to assume that only the subtitled version is eligible because the dubbed version would not be considered a foreign language?
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I wish more people would comment on the eligibility of (mostly Italian, I guess) films that were dubbed to multiple languages (including English) during the production.

Also, another eligibility issue raised its head on the recommendation thread. Stuff like War and Peace that were released as separate films but are single-story, and are filmed and produced in one go. In the previous countdown, The Lord of the Rings was considered as three separate films but is this different? And if it is, how? Berlin Alexanderplatz was also mentioned, but to me, that's much more clearly a television series than a movie.
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My personal feeling is the Leone Westerns are not foreign-language, since the dubbing is done by the actors themselves, who natively spoke English and all that, but I'm open to being persuaded.



My personal feeling is the Leone Westerns are not foreign-language, since the dubbing is done by the actors themselves, who natively spoke English and all that, but I'm open to being persuaded.
But that's true for only some of the actors. In Leone's films, the English-speaking actors probably had the majority of the dialogue, so I can definitely see the point. My biggest concern is that we may end up removing a large part of Italian films of that era due to the dubbing issue.

I still haven't made up my opinion on this, but whatever the decision is, it'll affect my list quite heavily. That's why I'm interested in this so much.



I think if we make the criteria "any of the actors" we cause far more counterintuitive problems the other way, where we have to ask ourselves if the presence of anyone speaking a foreign language qualifies. I think intent matters, and Leone's films were intended to be made "in English" for English-speaking audiences. The dubbing was planned, if I'm not mistaken, rather than some post-hoc thing to make it saleable in another territory.

Obviously you'll be able to object to some part of any criteria, I just think this is the least objectionable.



I wish more people would comment on the eligibility of (mostly Italian, I guess) films that were dubbed to multiple languages (including English) during the production.
OK I will comment: I'd hate to see films that were released in English but also Italian be included, such as The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Do we really want that film with American English speaking stars to place #1 on a Foreign Language countdown? I don't, as it seems counter productive to making a good solid countdown list.



But that's true for only some of the actors. In Leone's films, the English-speaking actors probably had the majority of the dialogue, so I can definitely see the point. My biggest concern is that we may end up removing a large part of Italian films of that era due to the dubbing issue....
I think if we make the criteria "any of the actors" we cause far more counterintuitive problems the other way, where we have to ask ourselves if the presence of anyone speaking a foreign language qualifies. I think intent matters, and Leone's films were intended to be made "in English" for English-speaking audiences. The dubbing was planned, if I'm not mistaken, rather than some post-hoc thing to make it saleable in another territory...
Yoda said that well. So basically that would mean Leone Westerns out, most all other Italian part dubbed films in. Which makes sense as even Fellini's La Strada had the lead actor dubbed, but it was originally an Italian language release.

Thursday already spoke about this and said The Leopard was in, which makes sense.



I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
OK I will comment: I'd hate to see films that were released in English but also Italian be included, such as The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Do we really want that film with American English speaking stars to place #1 on a Foreign Language countdown? I don't, as it seems counter productive to making a good solid countdown list.
I concur with this, The Good the Bad and the Ugly has no place on a foreign language countdown. There are more contentious cases, though, so the question is trying to find more of a hard and fast rule, if possible. I think any rule may have to be qualified with things like 'mostly'.



I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
@Thursday Next,

If a movie is available in both subtitled and dubbed versions, is it safe to assume that only the subtitled version is eligible because the dubbed version would not be considered a foreign language?
I think we would go with original primary language - for example, even though some Japanese animated films would have had an English dub at release, they would still be eligible.

If people have chosen to watch a film in a dubbed version rather than a subtitled version that is up to them and not really something we can legislate for.

I realise there are a lot of contradictions around dubbing, but we're probably going to have to have a best fit approach.



I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Also, another eligibility issue raised its head on the recommendation thread. Stuff like War and Peace that were released as separate films but are single-story, and are filmed and produced in one go. In the previous countdown, The Lord of the Rings was considered as three separate films but is this different? And if it is, how? Berlin Alexanderplatz was also mentioned, but to me, that's much more clearly a television series than a movie.
War and Peace appears to be listed as a film on imdb so I'm happy for it to be nominated as such, unless anyone has any objections.

Berlin Alexanderplatz certainly seems to be a tv series and therefore not eligible, but if anybody has additional information to suggest that it should be eligible I'm happy to listen to the case.



I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
But that's true for only some of the actors. In Leone's films, the English-speaking actors probably had the majority of the dialogue, so I can definitely see the point. My biggest concern is that we may end up removing a large part of Italian films of that era due to the dubbing issue.

I still haven't made up my opinion on this, but whatever the decision is, it'll affect my list quite heavily. That's why I'm interested in this so much.
I certainly don't want to rule out Italian films just because they are dubbed, so I would suggest that Italian films that are mostly available in or best known in an Italian dub are eligible, while films like TGTBATU which are mostly available and known in an English version are not, if that is a distinction which makes sense to everyone else.



I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
This is my fifth post in a row, but we have our first list! Exciting times. No rush though, plenty of time to watch more movies.



The trick is not minding
This is my fifth post in a row, but we have our first list! Exciting times. No rush though, plenty of time to watch more movies.
Stop monopolizing this thread! Sheesh. Who does she think she is? Just because she’s the host and all.....



The Human Condition trilogy: One film or three? For anybody else who might vote for it, if it is ruled as three separate films for the purpose of voting, we should pick one of the three and all vote for that film to represent the trilogy, yeah?



The trick is not minding
The Human Condition trilogy: One film or three? For anybody else who might vote for it, if it is ruled as three separate films for the purpose of voting, we should pick one of the three and all vote for that film to represent the trilogy, yeah?
Three. Trilogies, when presented separately, are always counted as such in my opinion.