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The U.S. founding documents are built on enlightened European foundations. Why the anguish for alternative cultures to carjack America? Other nations can build their own civilization too.
Well, the key word in the phrase "enlightened European foundations" is the first one, not the second. A person with Latin heritage who believes in liberty is embodying American culture more than someone with European heritage who doesn't.

Case in point: look at the political landscape in most of Europe. Large, expansive government left and right (if you'll forgive the pun). Lotta good that European cultural foundation did them.
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"Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."



Emphasis on improved/enlightened government, true. I do sincerely wish my country more reflected European culture as far as culturally traditional city-building, instead of gas stations, malls, chain restaurants, and the modern cities dominating the skylines.



My mother always said, "If you cut two people open, everything is in the same place. Color of someone's skin means nothing. You should never treat someone different based on race, gender, creed or sexual orientation. You treat them as you want to be treated."
MovieGal for President I like what your mother said, I believe it too.

I wonder if any of the Presidential candidates gave that as an answer when asked what their views on race was...what would happen?



Mistress of Sick Gore
MovieGal for President I like what your mother said, I believe it too.

I wonder if any of the Presidential candidates gave that as an answer when asked what their views on race was...what would happen?
You dont want me for President.. it would be a total dictatorship...
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Never talk smack about Star-Lord!!!
It is not his fault and he's not an idiot!


After all, horror is usually concerned in some way with death, and romance is concerned with love, but love and death and how one is bound up in the other is the very essence of gothic.



You dont want me for President.. it would be a total dictatorship...
How about a joint presidency? We can be dictators together The first thing I'm doing is declaring pizza a national monument. Then eliminating government waste and spending that money on saving and restoring old movies!



7thson's Avatar
Vacationing like a MOFO
You dont want me for President.. it would be a total dictatorship...
And sadistic too, cutting people open and all .
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Why can't I kill God in me? Why does He live on in me in a humiliating way - despite my wanting to evict Him from my heart? Why is He, despite all, a mocking reality I can't be rid of?



Mistress of Sick Gore
How about a joint presidency? We can be dictators together The first thing I'm doing is declaring pizza a national monument. Then eliminating government waste and spending that money on saving and restoring old movies!
CR, Im up for another B Movie HOF or 80s HOF anytime you are... we could even do a Cult Classic one..

No one better steal my idea!



Captain Steel's Avatar
"Lois, I never lie."
Have you seen those deepfake things? Basically A.I. face mapping that learns from video footage. Here's an example if you haven't seen it:


From now on, anyone can say anything on video footage. We won't know the truth or where to begin to look for it very soon from now.
Here's another where Bill Hader keeps morphing into and out of Arnold Schwarzenegger = freaky!




You ready? You look ready.
I don’t know about y’all but I think a joint would make a terrible president. They’d be high all the time
@Citizen Rules @MovieGal
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Halcyon days are not a thing
Nostalgia is no excuse for stupidity
I don't believe in golden ages
Or presidents that put kids in cages
America awaits on bended knee
Bad Religion



Captain Steel's Avatar
"Lois, I never lie."
Iderno. Post 9/11 felt pretty intense, if I remember correctly. Freedom fries replaced 'french' fries in government cafeterias and the statement, "You're either with us or against us" drew a few headlines for a divide that seeped into the everyman. Hannity was pretty great at making Colmes look like a weak and sniveling stereotype without much effort. Granted social media didn't really exist the way it does today, but cable news did. As well as talk radio. I think it has gotten worse across the board but that's not to say 2001 was without its partisan hackery, planting the seeds for new, for-profit entities to take root and follow the model.
The "freedom fries" thing was just silly. Impugning the entire nation (and food we apply their name to) over a point of political opposition is as silly as any other gross generalization.

France has been our ally in both world wars and various skirmishes since the beginning. They were pivotal in helping the U.S. win its revolution. They've always been our ally and always will be as long as the two nations stand.

Just for clarity: George W. Bush's quote after the 9/11 attacks in an address to Congress was, "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
A lot of people misquoted or reinterpreted this as the much simpler "You're either with us or against us" phrase.



I don’t know about y’all but I think a joint would make a terrible president. They’d be high all the time
@Citizen Rules @MovieGal
If our governor, Jay Inslee becomes president it will be free weed for everyone



7thson's Avatar
Vacationing like a MOFO
So I was going to go back and quote different comments but instead I am just going to make a general statement.

I actually am mostly native american, at least that is what my DNA test tells me. Choctaw and some Munsee according to my research. between the two I am 68%. The rest of me is Scottish and a mix of stuff. However I have facial hair and a French name so go figure. My wife and son are Jewish and I am myself a very laid back christian raised as Baptist. I cannot say that I personally have ever had any personal issues with my race growing up with a couple exceptions living in Chicago. See I did not know I was mostly Native American, I mean I knew there was some in the family but the topic never really came up. Being older and looking at my great grandparents photos that I do have it is obvious. So I was raised pretty much white for all intents and purposes because perception, while not the truth, it certainty comes across as such to most.


Speaking to the John's "devil's advocacy" statement:
To say it is impossible not to be racist because one is white definitely depends on one's perception of the word. I see that this has been debated a little and my take is that it is not impossible, but [probably quite rare.) - Again taking the definition into consideration. Have I ever said or thought racist things? Yes I have, but one has to take things into context. Ever play Cards Against Humanity? We love the game and I play usually after our poker game with those that want to stay and have fun, and most of the players are not white and they love the game too. There are other instances that come up, and I am not innocent by any means, but never have I thought I was better than anyone or thought that racism does not exist. I know you are not saying these things, I am just sharing thoughts. I grew up pretty poor, but my parents always provided one way or another, that is a blessing and I am very grateful and lucky for it. Things got better financially in my teenage years as my father grew in his career. He worked very hard to get where he did when he retired, I cannot think of a single time his "whiteness" helped, of course he did look more "Indian" than I do so maybe that's why it took so long for him to get earn what he was worth - I have no idea, he never mentioned it.



With my wife being Jewish I have seen firsthand the hurdles and unfair/racist remarks and situations she is put in which directly effects our home, which does include me, white looking and all. Her last job was one prime example and without going into details (that is her story to tell not mine) she eventually quit which strangely enough put us in the position to be able to take the long vacation we are on right now.

Not really trying to detract from the original context of the thread, but I thought a little background may help.
I am certainly not looking for pity or a pass on anything I say, but more of an understanding of me, the screwed up Native American white hetero, male- Cis if you want, that term doesn't bother me, I have also seen the horrible things people say and do to transgender and alt lifestyle friends and family and it usually falls under one of two things, or both. Hate and ignorance. But to say someone is inherently racist based on their race would mean we all are, minority or not and I do not believe that. Anyway that is my take on that topic, I am always open to friendly albeit heated debate be it online or in person. I might not have the vocabulary that many do, but I do have experience.

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Someone, Yoda I think it was you, (paraphrasing here) mentioned how many things are surfacing more because of certain catalysts bringing them forward and that they were already inherently there. Sorry if I am misinterpreting your statement, please correct me if I am wrong.

I can agree with this to a point. I think there has been a wet blanket over much of what we are seeing currently and in our recent past, but I also think those catalysts can and do birth new ideas and biases and mistrust, etc...

I really liked the horseshoe theory, I had actually only heard f it once before and never really thought about it until now. I think it is interesting and makes a point that I have been trying to make for years. That we are all more similar than we think, unfortunately we never tend to grasp to that ideology, instead we focus on differences and labels and prestige and how others perceive us, etc...

Throw it under whatever category you want:
Race
Sex
Age
Gender
Sexuality
Religion
Mental Illness/handicapped
Financial Status
Eye color
hair style
on and on - it all is the same in the end. Hate and ignorance, and I do not use ignorance solely in the "demeaning" way. For example I am ignorant about brain surgery, but does anyone hate me for that? However if I do not know that something I say is racist (I am being honest here and maybe it is a bad example but hey its what I got) does that make me a racist? No it does not - it may make me ignorant or seem racially insensitive, but it does not make me a racist. Same goes for may other things, but since race was brought forth it is a good example.


So I have been trying to post this for hours now, keep getting distracted by dogs, kids, family, etc... I mean that in a good way, I would rather be doing nothing else then hanging with family. I only say this because I glanced and see a lot has already been said on the subject and I am now johnny come lately, but hell going to post it anyway.

More to say on other things, so don't count me out of the conversation yet .

and I will move on from the focus on race, but I was not one to bring that can to the party .



I just want to hug (your FACE)!
Iderno. Post 9/11 felt pretty intense, if I remember correctly. Freedom fries replaced 'french' fries in government cafeterias and the statement, "You're either with us or against us" drew a few headlines for a divide that seeped into the everyman. Hannity was pretty great at making Colmes look like a weak and sniveling stereotype without much effort. Granted social media didn't really exist the way it does today, but cable news did. As well as talk radio. I think it has gotten worse across the board but that's not to say 2001 was without its partisan hackery, planting the seeds for new, for-profit entities to take root and follow the model.
The "freedom fries" thing was just silly. Impugning the entire nation (and food we apply their name to) over a point of political opposition is as silly as any other gross generalization.

France has been our ally in both world wars and various skirmishes since the beginning. They were pivotal in helping the U.S. win its revolution. They've always been our ally and always will be as long as the two nations stand.

Just for clarity: George W. Bush's quote after the 9/11 attacks in an address to Congress was, "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
A lot of people misquoted or reinterpreted this as the much simpler "You're either with us or against us" phrase.

I was generalizing more about how that phrase (more the sentiment?) trickled down to citizen vs citizen. Like a catch-all line to throw at anyone who disagrees. Now it's just a given if someone disagrees they're anti whatever. Or so it seems.

Totally agree with you btw. And thanks for clarifying and correcting the quote.



Just putting this out there. Brown people can be incredibly racist towards blacks and whites. As as Indian I can vouch for that. As someone who has spent some time in China and Middle East, I can also add that I have witnessed people from those regions being racists towards others.

I personally deem racism as an act of deeming one's own race to be superior than others.

We also need to be careful with how we use certain terms. The power these terms hold is important. By using them casually we are actively weakening them.

As for the topic. Any 'ism' when unchecked or unregulated leads to authoritarian rules.

We are going through a phase of intense tribalism. History has seen such behaviours in the past. Unfortunately, it all leads to an event of massive destruction, after which we will be back to a moderate and a relatively peaceful society.



cricket's Avatar
Pimpin' ain't easy
I think when people say things like "all white people are racist", they are probably racist themselves by their own definition, which is a definition I completely disagree with.



cricket's Avatar
Pimpin' ain't easy
A couple of annoying things from the debates.

One was simpleton Kirsten Gillibrand pandering to the simpletons by saying, “I can talk to those white women in the suburbs that voted for Trump and explain to them what white privilege actually is. When their son is walking down the street with a bag of M&Ms in his pocket, wearing a hoodie, his whiteness is what protects him” from being shot. When their child has a car that breaks down and he knocks on someone’s door for help and the door opens and the help is given, it’s his whiteness that protects him from being shot.”

So let me get this straight. Is she saying someone should be shot in these situations? If she's not, and they shouldn't, then that's not any kind of privilege. That's just the way it should be. The black community certainly has many problems not only with how they're looked at, but from within. If you want to call them underprivileged, I don't think it's a big deal. Singling out people with white skin as people who somehow get unfair special treatment is just wrong. Losers will stay losers.

Race baiting Don Lemon should not be a part of these debates. He puts his twisted opinion in way too much. I see CNN occasionally when my wife has it on. It's incredible how they continue to lie by saying Trump said things like Mexicans are rapists, or that he called black players who kneeled for the national anthem sons of bitches. My favorite is probably their claim that "there were good people on both sides" was somehow racist when there was absolutely nothing racist about it and he was right on target. Then they claim that Trump has divided the country when in fact it is the far left liberals who are dividing it. If you want to say the president can be insensitive, I don't think anyone can argue that, and he certainly doesn't discriminate. If you want to make up lies and then call the people who voted for him racists, then yes you are the people who are dividing the country.



It was kinda lame how candidates ducked questions by saying "those are right-wing talking points." I mean, you're literally running to decide who's going to have to rebut "right-wing talking points" for six months, so maybe you should entertain a few of those questions now.

Also, of course, sometimes they weren't right-wing talking points so much as basic mathematics.