Star Trek: Discovery

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You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
So, anyone else enjoying The Orville?
I've been watching "The Orville", and I love it. I read that it was already renewed for a second season.

I can't compare it to "Star Trek: Discovery" because I haven't been watching that show. When it airs on a channel that I already pay for in my current cable bill, then I'll watch it, but I'm not paying extra to see it.


I'm currently watching "Mirror, Mirror" of Star Trek the original series.

If I may engage my inner Trekkie, I've got this theory... in the episode "City On the Edge of Forever," after travelling back in time to find Dr. McCoy, Spock explains that if they save the life of Kirk's newly met love interest of the 1930's, Edith Keeler (Joan Collins), it will indirectly lead to a series of events that would cause the Axis powers to win WWII and cast Earth into a savage, militaristic future.
My theory is that the alternate dimension in Mirror Mirror is the savage militaristic future that occurred in a timeline where Kirk (or McCoy) saved Edith Keeler from being killed by a truck. It makes so much sense.

Have others come up with this theory before?
I never thought about that theory, but it kind of makes sense. I guess we're lucky that Capt. Kirk stopped Dr. McCoy from saving her, but I like Spock with a beard. He's great in any timeline.



I've been watching "The Orville", and I love it. I read that it was already renewed for a second season.

I can't compare it to "Star Trek: Discovery" because I haven't been watching that show. When it airs on a channel that I already pay for in my current cable bill, then I'll watch it, but I'm not paying extra to see it.




I never thought about that theory, but it kind of makes sense. I guess we're lucky that Capt. Kirk stopped Dr. McCoy from saving her, but I like Spock with a beard. He's great in any timeline.
Thanks for responding, GBG!

I'm not sure why I like The Orville so much - I would say it's nostalgia as it harkens back heavily to Star Trek TNG (but I was never a huge TNG fan compared to my feelings toward the original series). I guess I was surprised that The Orville is producing some decent sci-fi stories. At first I thought it was just going to be "Family Guy in Space" but it's not. And some of the early criticisms were apt - like it can't decide what it wants to be; a comedy or a sci-fi adventure series, but it seems to be feeling it's way into a better balance (although some of the comedy seems out of place - especially when they keep making 21st century references that no one would get in 400 years.)

I also have never seen ST Discovery (don't have the channel or whatever you need to see it), but after the reviews, I don't really care to see it.

On the Mirror, Mirror theory - I know other media (books, comics, TV series) have expanded on the episode, so I don't know if those things would support my theory, but little things like the Nazi "sieg heil" type salute they use, could be leftover from the Nazis being one of the powers that won WWII (just as in the regular universe, various U.S. & British Naval standards are still used). The fact that the Federation is an Empire in the Mirror universe could be a leftover from the Japanese Empire (and maybe Earth conquered other planets in this universe, making them conquests of the Empire instead of allying with them and making them equal parts of the Federation). They might also have found kindred spirits with the Klingons (warlike, savage, militaristic) and combined their empire with them in the Mirror universe.



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
Thanks for responding, GBG!

I'm not sure why I like The Orville so much - I would say it's nostalgia as it harkens back heavily to Star Trek TNG (but I was never a huge TNG fan compared to my feelings toward the original series). I guess I was surprised that The Orville is producing some decent sci-fi stories. At first I thought it was just going to be "Family Guy in Space" but it's not. And some of the early criticisms were apt - like it can't decide what it wants to be; a comedy or a sci-fi adventure series, but it seems to be feeling it's way into a better balance (although some of the comedy seems out of place - especially when they keep making 21st century references that no one would get in 400 years.)

I may have spoken a little bit too soon about "The Orville". Did you see the last episode? It had spiders in it.

I don't watch "Family Guy", so I had no expectations of "The Orville" being similar in any way, but it seems pretty obvious that Seth MacFarlane is a "Star Trek" fan. The show has the feeling of being a comedy version of "Star Trek" without losing any of the sci-fi and adventure.


I also have never seen ST Discovery (don't have the channel or whatever you need to see it), but after the reviews, I don't really care to see it.

On the Mirror, Mirror theory - I know other media (books, comics, TV series) have expanded on the episode, so I don't know if those things would support my theory, but little things like the Nazi "sieg heil" type salute they use, could be leftover from the Nazis being one of the powers that won WWII (just as in the regular universe, various U.S. & British Naval standards are still used). The fact that the Federation is an Empire in the Mirror universe could be a leftover from the Japanese Empire (and maybe Earth conquered other planets in this universe, making them conquests of the Empire instead of allying with them and making them equal parts of the Federation). They might also have found kindred spirits with the Klingons (warlike, savage, militaristic) and combined their empire with them in the Mirror universe.
I haven't read any of the "Star Trek" books in a long time, so I can't comment about them, but I can see the Edith Keeler storyline being the background for the "Mirror, Mirror" universe storyline, if Kirk had saved her.



I found Star Trek Discovery in the On Demand menu under Prime Time Shows > CBS.

I started watching while trying to divorce myself from the many things I read / heard about the show. I've seen the 1st 4 episodes so far.

Warning: may contain SPOILERS:

I wasn't expecting the show to reference any of the other series until later on, but in the first episode Sarek shows up.
I didn't feel he seemed anything like Sarek from the other series & movies... he didn't even seem very Vulcan (a criticism I also had of some of the Vulcans on Enterprise).

We quickly come to learn main character Burnham was basically Spock's foster sister.

I had a hard time buying into Burnham's motivation for mutiny in the first episode as it just didn't seem Trek-like, or logical or representative of anything Star Trek ever stood for. (Somehow I doubt throwing the first punch at Klingons would result in anything except a counter punch from Klingons. So it seemed a flawed scenario at least to me. Indeed, it might gain Klingon's respect, but being Klingons it would most certainly also gain a counterstrike and a declaration of war.)

Ah, the Klingons. I will join in the criticism - the series changes most things about them, from their physical biology to their artistic styles to their ships.

Now, we understand why Klingons changed from TOS to ST-TMP: the TV show didn't have the budget for Roddenberry's vision of them. But as of TMP, we got an idea of what he WANTED Klingons to look like (with their spines extending over their heads). That look & their culture was built upon for decades, creating an extensive overview of who the Klingon's are, which firmly set their place in the ST universe.

I have no problem trying to improve on make-up, effects and such (Lord knows Mr. Worf needed improvement from his TNG season 1 make-up), but I don't understand the need to completely change the Klingons for a series that takes place between Enterprise and TOS.

I heard all about the SJW bent for Discovery, but I really haven't noticed it yet as being so blatant after the first 4 episodes - which is a good thing. But I will agree the series seems to lack the positive outlook of Trek (granted, this series takes place as war with the Klingons breaks out), or its lessons. So far I read some anti-war commentaries being made and lessons like don't judge a book by it's cover (such as with the Tardigrade... similar to TOS's Horta.)

Thoughts?



Discovery..I started watching while trying to divorce myself from the many things I read / heard about the show. I've seen the 1st 4 episodes so far.
That's admirable, but wouldn't be easy for me to do as I've heard nothing but bad reviews about ST Discovery. Still I plan on trying to watch it someday and hopefully can find a place for it in my crowded ST mind


Ah, the Klingons. I will join in the criticism - the series changes most things about them, from their physical biology to their artistic styles to their ships.

Now, we understand why Klingons changed from TOS to ST-TMP: the TV show didn't have the budget for Roddenberry's vision of them. But as of TMP, we got an idea of what he WANTED Klingons to look like (with their spines extending over their heads). That look & their culture was built upon for decades, creating an extensive overview of who the Klingon's are, which firmly set their place in the ST universe.
Well that's disheartening to read. One of the things I loved most about TNG & DSN and Voyager were that they built up this complete Klingon culture and immersed us in it...and I feel so steeped in that idea of Klingon culture that I'd have a hard time with Discovery's new vision of them. It almost sounds like Discovery is more of a reboot than a continuation of the other ST series philosophy.
...I will agree the series seems to lack the positive outlook of Trek (granted, this series takes place as war with the Klingons breaks out)...
I've read that complaint too that Discovery is too dark without the hope of a better tomorrow that the other ST series proclaimed. That also is how Picard the series seemed to me when I watched it (not Star Trek and too damn dark!).




Well that's disheartening to read. One of the things I loved most about TNG & DSN and Voyager were that they built up this complete Klingon culture and immersed us in it...and I feel so steeped in that idea of Klingon culture that I'd have a hard time with Discovery's new vision of them. It almost sounds like Discovery is more of a reboot than a continuation of the other ST series philosophy.
I'm thinking this is one of the major things that turned ST fans off.

There was simply no need to change the Klingons so drastically - audiences loved the Klingons as they were, and more so as we got to see more of their warriors & culture.

And I don't buy the idea that this was just a natural production evolution (as compared to the TOS Klingons and those that came later) because we aren't decades between versions of Klingons.

Sure, maybe try to have the make-up look more realistic or have better effects, but not this. Actually, the make-up doesn't look better or more realistic at all - it looks like they are wearing masks (and when they speak Klingon, it SOUNDS like they are wearing masks).

Basically, they look like an entirely different species (and the show doesn't seem to offer any explanation as Enterprise did - that there are different races, off-shoots or biologically altered Klingons).

If they were going to change the adversaries so much, I wonder why they didn't just create a new alien race for Starfleet to battle = they could always add to ST canon with new aliens the way all the other series did without totally altering established ones. Or they could have just expanded on one of the many alien races shown in Enterprise (Discovery's predecessor) as many were discovered on that show.

I'm always ready to jump on anything (in a negative way) that is labeled as SJW - and from what I'd heard, Discovery allegedly hits the audience over the head with it. But I have to say (to the show's credit) I'm not really seeing it so far (maybe it comes on stronger in later episodes).

The special effects are top notch (with some beautiful color schemes), although the overall look of the ships (especially the Klingon ones) don't say Trek to me. Some of the Klingon ships look like they belong in Dune!

The uniforms look like they could be descendants of Enterprise's uniforms. (I've already seen "Captain Archer's" name on a screen so there are some nods to other series in the early episodes.)

My analysis so far: I'm a bit intrigued and I don't hate it as much as I expected to based on reviews. It's no where near as FUN as The Orville, of course, but I'll watch a few more.



Thanks Captain, An overtly SJW Star Trek Discovery doesn't interest me much. But keep us updated, I'm interested in reading your thoughts and I'll probably end up watching Discovery anyway. BTW are you watching the new season of The Orville?



Thanks Captain, An overtly SJW Star Trek Discovery doesn't interest me much. But keep us updated, I'm interested in reading your thoughts and I'll probably end up watching Discovery anyway. BTW are you watching the new season of The Orville?
Sadly I don't have access to the Orville anymore (used to watch it on FOX).

Perhaps, as with Discovery, a network will pick it up for On Demand viewing in the future.

________

P.S. This is out there, but I revealed that the main character on Discovery ("Michael Burnham" - yes, she's a girl named Michael) was raised as Spock's foster sister.

We know from the very first episode she's a protégé of Sarek and she speaks of the human woman who took her in on the planet Vulcan named "Amanda" and how she was raised with Amanda's son - presumably Spock). But I wonder if Sybok might ever be reconnected (even though he's never really been mentioned in any ST canon since ST-V as far as I know.)

Someone who grew up in Spock's family might have known (or known of) Sybok!



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
My analysis so far: I'm a bit intrigued and I don't hate it as much as I expected to based on reviews. It's no where near as FUN as The Orville, of course, but I'll watch a few more.
I've seen a few episodes of season 1 of "Star Trek Discovery", and I agree with you that it's better than I expected, but it's not as good as "The Orville". I think one of the problems, (at least for me), is that I don't like Burnham, and most of the other characters aren't very likable either. If you think about it, are there any characters on "Discovery" that you would be upset if they killed off that character? (I can't think of any that I would miss.)


BTW are you watching the new season of The Orville?
Season 3 of "The Orville" hasn't aired yet. It was put on hiatus in 2019, then delayed by the pandemic in 2020. They started filming again in Dec 2020, but then they were put on hold again in January 2021 when the pandemic numbers started to rise again. The expected release date, (as of now), is sometime late in 2021.

https://www.thecinemaholic.com/the-o...thing-we-know/
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I've watched all three series of Discovery and enjoyed them all.
It gets better and the tech improves too.

I also watched Picard and enjoyed that too.

I try not to compare the different series as all made in different decades and each has it's own style and merits.
Just enjoy them for what they are.



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
I've watched all three series of Discovery and enjoyed them all.
It gets better and the tech improves too.

I also watched Picard and enjoyed that too.

I've only seen a few episodes of "Star Trek Discovery" so far, but it's nice to know that it gets better.

I haven't seen "Picard" yet, but I'm looking forward to it.


I try not to compare the different series as all made in different decades and each has it's own style and merits.
Just enjoy them for what they are.
I also try to watch each series as its own show, and not compare them to each other, but sometimes there are just too many similarities, (or sometimes copies), to ignore them. But I find that I seem to enjoy the new shows more if I just consider them as individual sci-fi shows, rather than specifically Star Trek shows.



I've only seen a few episodes of "Star Trek Discovery" so far, but it's nice to know that it gets better.

I haven't seen "Picard" yet, but I'm looking forward to it.




I also try to watch each series as its own show, and not compare them to each other, but sometimes there are just too many similarities, (or sometimes copies), to ignore them. But I find that I seem to enjoy the new shows more if I just consider them as individual sci-fi shows, rather than specifically Star Trek shows.
I think I'm not disliking Discovery as much as I expected because I went in with a very skeptical attitude (based on everything I'd heard).

This happens a lot with me - especially with movies: when they are widely panned, I often think they are not as bad as I thought they'd be when I finally see them, but when they are hyped up & lauded as something spectacular, I usually wonder what all the hype was about.



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
I think I'm not disliking Discovery as much as I expected because I went in with a very skeptical attitude (based on everything I'd heard).

This happens a lot with me - especially with movies: when they are widely panned, I often think they are not as bad as I thought they'd be when I finally see them, but when they are hyped up & lauded as something spectacular, I usually wonder what all the hype was about.

I tried to watch "Discovery" with an open mind. I had seen the first episode a few years ago because it aired on the regular (free) CBS network around the same time that the series started on CBS All Access (for a fee), but I didn't really care for it much, and I had no plans to pay to see it, so I never saw anything after the pilot episode.

But it's been airing on the regular (free) CBS network recently, (probably because their planned shows were delayed due to the pandemic), so I decided to give it another chance.

I still don't love it as much as I had hoped, but I think I like it better than I did the first time I saw it. That might be because I didn't remember much about it, except that I didn't really like it much the first time I saw it.