Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll

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Idk. I'm only going off of the screencap, but I don't think it was that out of line for her to state her opinion the way she did. Maybe she had a reply where she dug in her heels on the need for inclusivity.
Granted, I take statements like that, stated like that, to basically be prompts of asking for an explanation why he chose what he chose, or rather why he didn't choose some other movies.


As I say, without context of seeing if there was a further reply.

In short, I just hate the notion that anyone is supposed to live up to anyone else's expectations on what a list of their favorite films is. Our beliefs or our politics dont need to run interference on everything, and for a fan of an artist to think Hertzfeld should be approaching his list- making like she thinks it should be done, is obnoxious.



Having a larger swath of people vote is the way in which we enact change, if we want more representation on this ballot. Not having any kind of demand that we start tailoring our own feelings about art to reflect what someone else thinks it should reflect. Because, seriously, that's a bunch of shit.



If she wanted to engage with Hertzfeld about this (and I'll be clear about this one prejudice that definitely colors my irritation with her....I despise Twitter and the need some people have to interact with celebrities and other people they do not know and who they expect too much of), how about cutting it out with the 'disappointment' and simply ask him if there were any films by women (or whatever other thing she thought should be on his list) he considered. Open that discussion up without the notion that somehow Hertzfeld owed her a single solitary thing.



What would YOUR list look like, guys? The top 10 best films, do not have to be in the order of preference. Every film you include gets one point.

Not necessarily my top 10 picks, but a list of movies I love that I also think matter to cinema in impossibly huge ways.

2001
Jeanne Dielman
Scorpio Rising
L'Atalante
Citizen Kane
Woman Under the Influence
A Brighter Summer Day
Pierrot Le Fou
Passion of Joan of Arc
Andrei Rublev

You could possibly swap out the Godard for a Suzuki, or a Scorpio Rising for a Brakhage, or find some way to get Metropolis on there, but it would look something like that.

Surely forgetting a lot of other obvious choices though. A Bresson? An Altman? An Ozu?



What would YOUR list look like, guys? The top 10 best films, do not have to be in the order of preference. Every film you include gets one point.
1. Godfather
2. Citizen Kane
3. LOTR 1
4. Terminator 2
5. Oldboy (2003)
6. Monty Python and the Holy Grail
7. Raiders of the Lost Ark
8. Toy Story
9. 12 Monkeys
10. Vertigo

As you can see, I do share two movies with the new top ten of the BFI list, but I'm not going as experimental as the BFI list and I'm even willing to include more animation than just two Ghibli movies.



If I had a steak, I would f**k it!
A film guy I follow on Facebook had this to say.

"I have always maintained that cinema is a subjective art and not a science, that anyone's idea of a favourite film or the 'greatest' film is purely a matter of taste; one person's masterpiece is another's crashing bore. Whilst I haven't always agreed with the Sight and Sound Poll, (and I am old enough to have seen the polls going back several decades), I have always respected it as the judgement, as well as the 'taste' of people who loved cinema and knew their craft, (and the craft of cinema), and who didn't sully their judgement with political correctness on who perhaps should be included simply on the grounds of race, sex etc and not on how good their films might actually be. However, finally my respect for the Sight and Sound Poll has just taken flight and is unlikely to return.

I can definitively say that "Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles" is not the greatest film ever made despite what the so-called 'experts' who voted it so in the most recent poll say. Of course. I don't like the film, (that's putting it mildly), but my dislike for the film is purely a matter of my own personal taste and I know it has many admirers who see in its painfully slow lack of action layers of meaning that have obviously escaped me. No, I say it is not the greatest film ever made because there are thousands of better films that have advanced the art of cinema and engaged audiences emotionally (and politcally), some of them even directed by women! No, this was a choice based, not on whether this was a good movie, a bad movie or an indifferent movie but on the simple fact it was directed by a woman, recently deceased and who had not been given her dues before.

Yes, there have been great women directors throughout history all of them shamefully overlooked but suddenly deciding their films are worthy of inclusion in anyone's ten best list simply because it's time they were given credit is a politcally motivated move that has nothing specifically to do with either the art of cinema or indeed personal taste. I am sure many people who voted for these films actually preferred the films of long dead white men but didn't think it politically correct to vote for them.

The Sight and Sound Polls of earlier years were voted for by critics who really were critics and who actually loved cinema. One only has to look at a television programme like 'Discovering...' to find well-paid critics spouting 'facts' about a particular actor or director that are untrue or read reviews in magazines like 'Sight and Sound' that praise a film not for its cinematic qualities but for its political stance and that alone. While the director's poll also included Ackerman's film in the top ten the majority of the votes cast reflected cinema as real art as opposed to being politically cool. Movies like "The Godfather", "Citizen Kane" and "2001; A Space Odyssey" are truly great even if you don't like them and the directors polled, the people who know what it actually takes to make a film, know that. If nothing else, of course, this has turned out to be a controversial poll. Who knows it may even keep us talking for the next ten years."



What would YOUR list look like, guys? The top 10 best films, do not have to be in the order of preference. Every film you include gets one point.
I don't know about "best films of all time", but here's my current top 10:

1. Stalker
2. 2001: A Space Odyssey
3. Eraserhead
4. The Tree of Life
5. Late Spring
6. Persona
7. Vertigo
8. The Good, The Bad and the Ugly
9. Double Indemnity
10. A Moment of Innocence
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Subtle Slayer of Normies
I'd be interested in hearing how it matters for cinema and why you love it a lot. I thought it was good but I prefer Lucifer Rising when it comes to Anger.
Surely forgetting a lot of other obvious choices though
I think it's not really about forgetting but rather about not having enough place for including them all.
It's really a bummer trilogies like LOTR or The Human Condition that were thought up as a single thing and just cut up into smaller pieces cannot be included as a single entry.
Hmm, I think you're missing a 'k' and an 'o' in the first word. If so, we can agree on that one.
La Jetée be like: AM I A JOKE TO YOU?
I'd love to hear the reasons behind choosing these films. Especially Noroi which seems like an average horror film, Center Jenny which is insufferable trash, and RRR which is so new you cannot really consider it within a historical perspective nor correctly calculate its importance, value, or "majorness".

For example, my reason against including RRR would be that, while RRR is pretty good, it struck me as a rather lowbrow entertaining blockbuster while I can imagine Tokyo Story or Sansho the Bailiff speaking something universal to people around the world two centuries from now. I can’t see RRR being viewed as anything more than a parochial commentary on colonialism and brotherhood with a sprinkle of badass action.

I don't know about "best films of all time", but here's my current top 10:
Interesting. A Top 10 would suggest these are your favorite films. I'd be interested in seeing the best films, according to you. If you make a distinction there, that is.

It's a good, classic list, though. I can't really nitpick much apart from saying it might be too early to include The Tree of Life.
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I apologize for any and all perceived slights which I did not intend to send your way. Sincerely. If someone reads a different tone, then they cannot but also read a different message. And as for those slights which I did intend, well you probably deserved those. Let's be honest. You're not exactly a picture of moderation.



Interesting. A Top 10 would suggest these are your favorite films. I'd be interested in seeing the best films, according to you. If you make a distinction there, that is.

It's a good, classic list, though. I can't really nitpick much apart from saying it might be too early to include The Tree of Life.
I'd probably consider most of those for a best list, although while GBU is my favorite Leone Western, Once Upon a Time in the West is probably the better film since its scope feels more grand and epic. I agree it's too early to consider The Tree of Life for a GOAT top 10, so I'd probably remove that one. I'd also consider Jeanne Dielman, Citizen Kane, maybe Sansho the Bailiff instead of Late Spring, and at least one avant garde film (probably Wavelength or something by Brakhage). Also, if I were to include a short film, probably Night and Fog.



I'd love to hear the reasons behind choosing these films. Especially Noroi which seems like an average horror film, Center Jenny which is insufferable trash, and RRR which is so new you cannot really consider it within a historical perspective nor correctly calculate its importance, value, or "majorness".

For example, my reason against including RRR would be that, while RRR is pretty good, it struck me as a rather lowbrow entertaining blockbuster while I can imagine Tokyo Story or Sansho the Bailiff speaking something universal to people around the world two centuries from now. I can’t see RRR being viewed as anything more than a parochial commentary on colonialism and brotherhood with a sprinkle of badass action.

they're all perfect films



La Jetée be like: AM I A JOKE TO YOU?
12 Monkeys expanded on La Jetee. Also, La Jetee doesn't have Brad Pitt.

On top of that, even if I thought La Jetee was the better movie, I don't include short films. My list is for every feature film movie I've ever seen. Otherwise, I'd have to include the countless Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry, Disney, Woody Woodpecker etc. skits in the chart since those count as short films, and then it becomes more of a chore.



Subtle Slayer of Normies
they're all perfect films
Yeah, it doesn't really say whether you should give a list of best or favorite films for the poll.
12 Monkeys expanded on La Jetee.
I saw it many years ago, but I'm pretty sure this isn't true. La Jetee is a seminal and unique work of art. 12 Monkeys turned it into a blockbuster-type film. Actually, La Jetee's biggest strength is that it
doesn't have Brad Pitt.
Fair enough about not including shorts, though.



mattiasflgrtll6's Avatar
The truth is in here
Bruce Willis and Brad Pitt both give some of the best performances of their careers. So couldn't agree with that statement any less.



Bruce Willis and Brad Pitt both give some of the best performances of their careers. So couldn't agree with that statement any less.

Not to mention that "blockbuster-type" kept the themes alive with new thick storytelling elements, and it didn't detract from Gilliam's taste for the weird and unique that he displayed in Brazil.



mattiasflgrtll6's Avatar
The truth is in here
I would like to give the original a watch some time. I only welcome the fact that it it will probably feel like a different movie, I prefer that to a purely shot-for-shot remake.
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Subtle Slayer of Normies
Here are my three deeply flawed attempts at making a list:

Top 10 Best Films of All Time - Take 1

This take takes my subjective opinions about cinema and throws them right out of the window. It's my attempt to be as objective as possible, though it's obviously impossible. Importance, relative greatness, universal message, humanity, and influence on cinema are all considered prime factors here.

La passion de Jeanne d'Arc [The Passion of Joan of Arc] (1928)
東京物語 [Tokyo Story] (1953)
山椒大夫 [Sansho the Bailiff] (1954)
L' année derničre ŕ Marienbad [Last Year at Marienbad] (1961)
人間の條件 完結篇 第五部死の脱出/第六部曠野の彷徨 [The Human Condition III: A Soldier's Prayer] (1961)
赤ひげ [Red Beard] (1965)
Persona (1966)
Зеркало [Mirror] (1975)
Sátántangó [Satantango] (1994)
Μια αιωνιότητα και μια μέρα [Eternity and a Day] (1998)

Top 10 Best Films of All Time - Take 2

In this take, I'm replacing some films from the first list. The new inclusions are, I sincerely believe, better films overall, though they might not be nearly as old, established, universal, or major. Take 2 promotes quality over importance.

La passion de Jeanne d'Arc [The Passion of Joan of Arc] (1928)
山椒大夫 [Sansho the Bailiff] (1954)
東京暮色 [Tokyo Twilight] (1957) - Replaces Tokyo Story.
L' année derničre ŕ Marienbad [Last Year at Marienbad] (1961)
人間の條件 完結篇 第五部死の脱出/第六部曠野の彷徨 [The Human Condition III: A Soldier's Prayer] (1961)
赤ひげ [Red Beard] (1965)
Зеркало [Mirror] (1975)
Fanny och Alexander [Fanny and Alexander] (1982) - Replaces Persona.
Werckmeister harmóniák [Werckmeister Harmonies] (2000) - Replaces Satantango.
Η σκόνη του χρόνου [The Dust of Time] (2008) - Replaces Eternity and a Day.

Top 10 Best Films of All Time - Take 3

In the final take, I'm just compiling a list of my 10 favorite films of all time. It's interesting to see the overlap with the previous lists as well as two outrageously recent entries, though both of them were in the making for more than 30 years! For what it's worth, films that appear on all three lists are in red. I really hate myself for dropping out The Human Condition III (it's my 11th favorite film). Another interesting observation is that favorites can change quite often. I allow myself to be biased and unashamedly subjective. Plus, the list might look slightly different if I compiled it yesterday. The fact that I didn't include Werckmeister Harmonies, my favorite film of all time, on the first list can only speak of how snobby an objective best list can be. But oh well.

La passion de Jeanne d'Arc [The Passion of Joan of Arc] (1928) - Although there are many silent masterpieces, this one feels best as a sole representative of silent cinema, and it's also my personal favorite. This film is Light.
山椒大夫 [Sansho the Bailiff] (1954) - Kinda sucks to have 26 years of nothing between this and the previous entry, but that's the issue with limiting yourself to just ten choices. Sansho the Bailiff is pure cinema, pure humanity, and pure heart.
赤ひげ [Red Beard] (1965) - Best but criminally underseen & underappreciated Kurosawa film. Obviously, his most humane one, which means it probably won't move the cynical viewers who are into Avengers or something.
忍ぶ川 [The Long Darkness] (1972) - Basically the perfect romance film that finds the perfect balance between purity and mundanity, coldness and heat, domestic drama and resolution-less horror.
Зеркало [Mirror] (1975) - Nothing interesting to see here. Just perhaps the greatest film of all time.
息子 [My Sons] (1991) - Yamada might be my favorite director of all time, and this is perhaps my favorite of his many masterpieces, in which he mixes the best of Tokyo Story and The Long Darkness to arrive at a film that is as universal as life itself and as moving as life rarely is.
Werckmeister harmóniák [Werckmeister Harmonies] (2000) - Bela Tarr's peak is a film that got me into cinema and made me want to look for something that will make me feel like Harmonies did. I never found anything quite like it. But I found thousands of incredible films in the process.
Η σκόνη του χρόνου [The Dust of Time] (2008) - Theo Angelopoulos' swan song is also his most moving and powerful film, especially when watched after his 12 or 13 earlier efforts.
あなたにゐてほしい~SOAR~ [SOAR: I Wish You Were Here] (2015) - The only Masataka Hara film I deem masterful is also my favorite film I saw in 2021 and a film I was absolutely obsessed with, having watched it at least 5 times within a month. Though it's not for everyone, I'm moved by every second of this gem.
花筐 [Hanagatami] (2017) - Obayashi's penultimate film, more than 40 years in the making, is a perfect culmination of his themes and philosophy that permeate his oeuvre of 60-odd films.



Regarding Scorpio Rising:


Basically this was my being slightly lazy by picking the most known Anger. It's not my favourite, that would be either Invocation of my Demon Brother or Fireworks, but I think Scorpios influence is all over everything. Its subversive soup of sexual iconography (in this case home erotic biker fixations), rock and roll and the spectre of death watching over all these men parts, leather jackets and motorcycles would be ground zero for what music video would soon become. And there have been few things in film that have been nearly as influential on how film has been made for the last 40 years than the music video (yes, frequently for the worse, but its influence also brought a certain youthful liberation to many many films).


Scorpio Rising is also a fair and non controversial movie that can fill in to represent all sorts of things I couldn't get to on the list. It's a short film, experimental, somewhat surreal, and also brings the influence of Warhol, who is an artist so monumental to the century, no list shouldn't at least be touched by his hand.


Also as an amendment I should have included a documentary but don't know what that would be. Maybe Gimme Shelter. Maybe Act of Killing. Maybe Shoah....I don't know.



Here are my three deeply flawed attempts at making a list:

Top 10 Best Films of All Time - Take 1

This take takes my subjective opinions about cinema and throws them right out of the window. It's my attempt to be as objective as possible, though it's obviously impossible. Importance, relative greatness, universal message, humanity, and influence on cinema are all considered prime factors here.

La passion de Jeanne d'Arc [The Passion of Joan of Arc] (1928)
東京物語 [Tokyo Story] (1953)
山椒大夫 [Sansho the Bailiff] (1954)
L' année derničre ŕ Marienbad [Last Year at Marienbad] (1961)
人間の條件 完結篇 第五部死の脱出/第六部曠野の彷徨 [The Human Condition III: A Soldier's Prayer] (1961)
赤ひげ [Red Beard] (1965)
Persona (1966)
Зеркало [Mirror] (1975)
Sátántangó [Satantango] (1994)
Μια αιωνιότητα και μια μέρα [Eternity and a Day] (1998)
I find it odd, that with this criteria, there isn't a single English language film on your list. I'd assume that the last hundred years of Hollywood by itself should warrant at least one spot if importance and influence on cinema are among the prime factors.
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Subtle Slayer of Normies
I find it odd, that with this criteria, there isn't a single English language film on your list
There are some valuable American films that fit the criteria. They're not as great as the ones I included, though.



What would YOUR list look like, guys? The top 10 best films, do not have to be in the order of preference. Every film you include gets one point.
Well, I don't have a top ten list currently, but here's a list of my current five star movies on Letterboxd, if you're interested: https://letterboxd.com/stusmallz/lis...-stars/detail/