The Fall of the American Empire....

What are the contributing factors to the fall of a global empire? Rome was a victim of its own tyranny and lies, The Spanish fell to the rising of a greater empire, (the english,) and countless others crumbled for various reasons.
But it really makes you think, if Rome was in power for a few hundred years before it fell, how farfetched is it that the US, (if considered an empire, or if thought to be on the road to imperialism,) will eventually fall just as hard?
It is predicted that the US will fall behind china as the economic global leader within the century, more accuratley, within 30 or 40 years. You think this could lead to something more drastic? What do you all think?

Actually, attrition was the leading cause.

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"Today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."

The reason America will be around for a long time, albiet change is imminent, is because we are such a diverse country. How many other major countries can you be from any where in the world, practice any religion openly, vote for your leaders, etc, etc, etc...I know there our other countries where people are proud also, so in no way do I think we are better than anyone else, I am just focusing on the U.S right now. It is the freedom of choice that is ingrained in the foundation of this great democracy that keeps us strong and growing stronger. Bigger is not always better and I say "so what" if we do not lead the world economically. We certainly arent at the bottom of the list now or for the forseeable future. I am a laid back kinda guy and I say the future is going to come and there is going to be change, but a fall of the United States? I just don't see it. I look at America as the people that live here, the people I talk to everyday, not the political leaders. Politics in America is corrupt, bottom line. The people of America however are strong and we are from everywhere around the world. We have alot of very bad people here, but the large majority of us enjoy our freedom and are proud to be here. I have been to many places around the world, and every place I have been so far has people who have let me know that I am lucky and they envy my American citizenship, and ya know what? I am lucky and I am thankful everyday for my blessing of being an American.

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“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton

I think powerful societies generally fall due to complacency or decadence of some sort.

I don't think the United States is heading down an imperialistic road yet. It could happen, and it is the duty of its citizens to make themselves aware of the possibility, but I don't think it's happening now.

And I don't think China is exactly poised to overtake us. We heard the same things about the Japanese two decades ago. Every few years there's another "sky is falling" routine.

Militarily, there’s no possibility of China engaging us on our own soil. The logistics of a North America invasion, a continent that consists of three large allied countries, is too unfeasible to even contemplate. Of course there’s always terrorism, such as dirty bombs, biological and chemical attacks, and our good buddy, The Bomb, but that’s easier said than done nowadays. I can’t imagine that Chinese citizens coming to America are being watched any less than Saudi Arabians.

What worries me more than anything else is N. Korea attacking our Asian allies, thus taking away our support of the East. Once Bush is out of office, the world will like is just a little bit better. That is, if his successor takes the necessary steps to rebuild our external relations by not invading any other countries and making an obvious effort to pull out of the countries that have been invaded. Until then, we will be hated, and this kind of fear will be, unfortunately, prevalent.

Of course, that’s just my opinion.

I'm guessing Zeiken is talking more about a fall from the position of influence that the US currently holds, rather than a military/infrastructural 'fall'.

I think the US can be categorised as a modern day Empire, in the sense that it is the most influential single nation, and this position brings corresponding, self-reinforcing, benefits. (Most noteable of these is the predominance of dollar trade, which brings multiple benefits to both the state and industry, which in turn reinforces the predominance and desirability of the dollar. Etc etc.)

It seems reasonable to assume that the forces that drive it may:
(a) be handled badly
and/or
(b) may "hit a wall" (...as it were, in the sense that physical empires of the past struggled and fell when they could no longer expand).

And there's always an alternate/"restrained" power-group waiting in the wings. In this case, economically China and India are certainly in a good position to usurp the position of most economically influential nation (and therefore become the most politically/militarily influential one too). Europe is another contender as far as organisation/industrialisation goes, but the industrialising China/India have a big edge in terms of a dedicated workforce.

It's no surprise that both the US and European states are very strong on:
(a) developing (and retaining) innovative new technologies (even useless ones, like GM )
and
(b) ensuring access to energy sources (oil/gas/renewables) to power their economies.

Those are the types of things that can keep the industrialised, but less populace, regions' heads above water.

If handled right.

(guess if i think they're being handled right, especially by the most influential of the above-mentioned )

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I only posted what I did because the discussion took a turn. Nice post.

Heheheh, ah, cool. It was mainly 7thson's post that sparked that little ramble in me anyway. Guess it sparked you the same way . [i just didn't need to say the military thing after what you'd said ]

My face is a little red now. I reread the entire thread and realised that I mistook Yoda's comment about China overtaking us as a military takeover. My bad.

Wow, i didnt expect to get as big of a reaction.

I can see how you think its a little unfeaseable to consider the US on the road to imperialism, on the count of our largely choice based society, but it was that exact choice that let Rome down that road. Rome was actually a democracy for a few hundred years before the empire.

I would disagree. The Roman's treatment of the german tribes from the north (the goths, mainly,) led to revolt, and before long the romans had a full fledged war on their hands. It seems to me that it wouldnt have happened had the Goths been treated a little better.

What'd I do?

Well, on one hand, i don't think the Roman's treated any of the other races they overtook that "well", in the sense that they ultimately over-ran them. Yet they still bestowed advantages as much as they took advantage. That all worked out as mutually beneficial (compared to the alternatives)

I don't think the Goth's would have been that understanding about the Roman's. Let alone shown a more beneficient response (burning everything in sight doesn't really count )

So i'm guessing that mutual-education is the way forward. The Goth's could've learnt appreciation of variety. The Roman's could've learned to avoid statically-violent problem-solving. In that sense i see a parallel to the modern day .

Even if one society's way might be currently more effective, it doesn't mean that all forms can't learn from each-other.

EDIT: Whoops, my workmates have been getting me drunk. And as such, i forgot to reply to this bit last night (and equally, i might not make much sense now ...)

the US ain't going to disentegrate silly

(deflate maybe.... :whistles-innocently-smiley: )