Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)

Heh yeah, i edited the Moondog bit out as he didn't quite fit (it was his 'Enough about Human Rights' song, for those that want to get their monotonous hippy on )

Carlin I like, but I think his argument there doesn't apply to the core issues on this one. No one's arguing that 'the planet' is ultimately in danger here (outside the overly-hairy-bike-riding community ). The implications of 'CC' hit on what you're worried about - food in bellies and the like (just in the long-term too - as mark pointed out).

I agree that you've gotta look out for 'greenwash' - but to differentiate between snake oil & long-term-sustenance you've gotta engage with the details a bit, no?

(PS thank you )

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Virtual Reality chatter on a movie site? Got endless amounts of it here. Reviews over here

I disagree, that isn't his only take on the world, he also has talked in the past about "Soft language" and Politicians, but his point is a valid one. We as a people most likely will be able to do very little about what is happening here. Why? Because most folks just don't care and the majority don't believe its an issue anyway. Besides, what is it we're really trying to get at here? If taking better care of the planet will somehow get folks to somehow stop killing each other then I'm all for it.

This isn't really germane to my point but in a way it is. I went ahead and read most of the first article about the trees and I found it to be a total fear based piece that basically told me that trees do in fact die. Really? Well thanks for that. The study only supposedly (I'm a hard line septic, does it show?) goes back to 1955. How long has this planet been around again? How can we as a species deign to think that some study that is barely even 50 years old will somehow help us understand our planet and these so-called changes?

Again this is where I agree wholeheartedly with Carlin. The planet is fine its the people that are f**ked. We may in fact be a minor irritation to the world in some way and if we are then the planet has already started things in motion to heal itself. What we need to do is get ready for the changes. If we can, it may be to late for us. It's very likely that we will not inhabit this earth forever. We can't stop what's going to happen. Its already happening by some peoples accounts and studies. So what am I to do?

Well I suppose that's true. Don't you find though that when you are talking to someone about this "issue" that they already have their minds made up and in turn its next to impossible to get them to see reason? Or even enter into a debate about it? I mean for crying out loud there's still a very large group of people on this planet that believe some guy called Jesus is actually going to return from the grave. That sounds like a pretty tough nut to crack to this reporter.

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We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...

I just want more people to love each other and actually admit to it or do something about it (such as contribute to hunger programs or vote to reduce the possibility of things which WE DO/ DO NOT DO which will somehow keep any babies from eating enough. I mean, is there any single person here (I already know the answer, so forgive me) who doesn't believe that every baby conceived should be fed, at least if they are, truly, a baby? I love everybody here, even if I seemingly don't speak to you directly. I would wish you to respond as soon as you see this because YOU are loved. Sorry, this is nothing but a call for lost children who feel that they may actually have somehow lost or found their family. This is 100% not about bogus BS, so only respond if you can be honest and you're comfortable. God Bless.

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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page

I like Sam Kinison's strategy for world hunger.

Warning it's Sam Kinison

I like Sam Kinison and George Carlin probably more than most...

Me too. And I love you to Mark. You're a good man. I don't care what Holds says about ya.

Golgot:

For the sake of argument would you concur that This is a pretty fair and balanced assessment of greenhouse gases and how they pertain to your arguments?

Well i can only powwow about what you put in front of me Powdy

Ah, but people do care about the dollar in their pocket - and some of the most effective things we can do as individuals concerning CC often save us cash (simple things like insulating your house in cold climates etc). [There's lots of issues here - from the role of the economic downturn, to how saved money is spent etc, but ultimately there's a lot of overlap between simple 'energy saving' actions and personal 'lifestyle' benefit]

That is exactly the point. Resource stress (lack of food, water & space) are key drivers of conflict {*}. Tackling them is hard enough (as evinced by the continuing grumbling bellies in a world that currently has enough food to feed everyone, in theory). The last thing we need then is further attrition of resources in the face of a growing population. Tackling these challenging problems is another 'win-win' cross-over area in many ways.

I knew that article would have an amusingly polemic effect

I do find uber-sceptic reactions like this intriguing.

Firstly, the study tells you more than 'trees die'. It asserts that US trees, of all types, are dying at an increasing rate and not being replaced. And that this is at least not a short-term trend but one extending over half a century. Why is that not interesting to you, as a stand alone fact? I find it intriguing that you could be so blase about it.

And secondly, this study is just a stand-alone work separate from the body of evidence on historical climate change and the 'basic physics' that may drive it. Its focus is... trees. Is a 50yr trend not good enough for you now when it comes to tree studies? Is that too piffling & lightweight an investigation for you?

Well, there are many suggestions that we can 'mitigate' some of the more extreme possibilities that are floating out there - & there are lots of 'natural human drives' which can harnessed to achieve this - from penny-pinching, to national desire for 'energy independence', to international preferences of peace-over-war 'business as usual' stability. Etc

There's no need to be such a fatalist. We've got more talents than just ****ing things up

Yes and no I admit I like debunking 'silly' reasons that some sceptics come up with (IE ones that are technically errant etc) - but I find that every schism has an area in the middle where everyone can agree. Those who disagreed over Iraq still want things to work out there, ultimately. People who argue over economic stimulus still want a bustling, active, productive society at the end of the day. And you and me want to make sure everyone's got access to water, food & space for a long time to come, if at all possible. So it just comes down to discussing the details of how best to achieve these things as individuals (with any knock-on-effects for the bigger-scale coming as a bonus )

Well, it's wiki, so i'm not sure we should use it as a gold standard or anything. But yeah, today's page impression seemed a reasonable summary to me, on a quick scan

Now, what devilishness are you planning...

No devilishness

It's just that your sources are a bit slanted and there are other sites who slant in the opposite direction.

I'm just looking for a baseline to start from before we waste a bunch of time discrediting each others sources.

Why, dyou prefer Conservapedia?

Well tell you what, why don't you suggest some issues you have problems with - such as assertions on the wiki page you think are errant/contradicted elsewhere etc?

I think it's a given that I've bought into large swathes of CC thought/assertions, so sources I cite will often be supportive of that theory (but almost always based in scientific research for the most part - for what that's worth to you )

Crap. I just lost a huge post trying to reply to you Gols. I'll try to revisit this with you later when I can muster up the energy to type it up again. It took me over an hour and I lost it all. I don't know what the story is with my internet connection lately but I've lost several long post in the last few days and its very frustrating.

I think we really need to do something about to help curve climate change... and soon.
Climate is the average weather of an area... like over a long period of time, so even though now it may still be cold, the earth in general is experiencing a general warming. That's not good in the least, as the earth warms, the permafrost thaws in the summer and realeases ages old CO2 and other greenhouse gasses in to the air, which will dramatically increase the already high levels in our atmosphere. On top of that, pieces of ice on the antarctic and glaciers and the like melt more and more each year... raising the water level. But what is more worrying is that for every 3 degrees (celcius) the water temp. rises, the water will expand and raise the sea level roughly... (can't remember exactly but we did the math and i have the notes somewhere around here) roughly 2-4 feet i believe, which is simply astonomical.

so thats some basic stuff i know about Climate change... and this is all pretty much what i've learnt in my Meteorology class at university over the past few weeks

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One day you will ask me, what's more important...me or your life. I will answer my life and you will walk away not knowing that you are my life

You must be an incredible athlete.

haha unfortunately not... but I go to York U in Canada so my school has been on strike for the past 3 months so half the stuff i forgot over the long brake... I've only been back one week, and have that class once so far... besides, I've smoked alot of weed during the strike :P

Damn, sorry to hear that PW. Was looking forward to knocking about some ideas with you and maybe getting into some more detail and that. Hope you can find some time to have a go again (I'm sure there's plenty I wrote that you want to challenge, for a start )

(I guess just use the preview & back up occasionally in word - I'm kinda in that habit now days, coz my net eats some of my mammoth posts too on occasion. Bah)

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Just as a first-glance overview, I find it interesting that the people who have taken the time to think about all this seem fairly-concerned-to-panicked about climate change, while the main comment from those opposed is that they don't want to think about it, or don't believe that they can do anything (but refuse to listen to suggestions).

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Review: Cabin in the Woods 8/10

Heh, I don't think anyone should be 'panicking' as such, but Outbreak's comment about positive feedback definitely touches on the most worrying end of the science. That's the kind of stuff I always want to talk about with sceptics - but it normally takes a while to get past the "it's snowing so it can't be warming" / "it's just a natural cycle" style kneejerk rejections

You can find lazy/'auto-partisan' thinking on all sides tho

(PS Toosey may attempt to devour you whole for lumping him in with the 'don't want to think about it' crowd )