God Returns to MoFo! ~ Why You Should Believe in God

You`re very welcome

First off, let me just say that I wasn't trying to insult you. But SC said he didn't want to get into it with you. Maybe later I'll take a crack at answering your question. But that would require me to invest some time into rereading the exchange a few times to gain a clearer understanding of what you're trying to get at, and then spending time thinking carefully about what to say. I don't know how much time and energy you usually devote to that sort of thing, but for me it could take an hour or two. It's only worth it if you're being genuine, but if you're playing devil's advocate I'd rather you tell me before I waste an hour.

The short answer would be that the desire for truth and understanding the meaning of one's existence leads people to ask all kinds of questions in the hope of gaining deeper insight and closure.

What would you do if you suddenly awoke in a strange room surrounded by strangers who also awoke in the same way? If you just do whatever you want, or nothing at all, and don't take the situation seriously and scoff at other people's ideas, you might end up dead pretty quickly.

Asking questions is how you learn, and just because you can't know everything doesn't mean you can't know enough.

I was baptised when I was a baby. Growing up I went to a christian school, and then a catholic school where half the teachers were nuns. After a year of being in the catholic school I became the first student, at the age of 11, to not be required to go to religion class. The Nun said I believed in God, but was too obstinate against "catholic" interpretation. One instance the Sister said Mary never sinned, and I said "Thats baloney!", and man that nun was red faced pissed. So for the next few years I had a study hour in the principals office, and decided to read the bible on my own.

Then in my early twenties I was getting married. To get married me and the ex went to the ministers home or office to talk God, and then I got "born again" and rebaptised. I tried to be what I thought was a good christian, listen to christian music, stay away from certain elements, but the Ned Flanders formula and me dont mix. I used to pray every night, but havent now for years.

So does this mean I no longer believe in God? I think it more realistic that I tried and it just wasnt meant to be. Im not some self absorbed ass to think because I failed at something means that something never was. Do I think this country or the world would benefit from christianity. Absolutely, as evolved as weve become in technology and science, weve deteriorated spiritually.

Theres almost 1,500 versions of christianity, and the Bible says theres "one true church". Now ministers, preacher, rabbis and whatever will say its their church...........its actually all of them, but not everyone is in that "one true church". Basically its not the church, its the person. Its not the churches faith, its the persons faith. The "one true church" is in heaven where it even says in the bible Jesus is the high priest. He'll take who he wants, and not be hindered by church politics. I still encourage others to seek out faith, and would want my children to go to church too.

Why should you believe in God? I guess a non-believer thinks it a spell like brainwash that makes people euphoric or addled. A childrens story. Well, the Bible predicted that two thousand years ago. I encourage anyone if they are seriously interested in "God" to find a church you feel comfortable in and talk with a minister. Its not like youre gonna be turned into a frog!

oh wow,thats fascinating Tongo! did you have to be that way for the priest to marry you,or to be with your then wife,or did you actually believe at the time?

never seen a nun in my life

No he would have married us anyway. I always believed so taking a dip in the water was no big deal for me, but my ex was very emotionally moved by being baptised and other times too. Even though I "knew", maybe her heart was more truly open to recieve him, I dont know.

There is so-much-judgement in our own minds. How someones judged in this conversation, at work, your family, church, or wherever. The most unwise thing one can do is base their faith off someone elses faith or behavior. All men can break, all men can fall, all men are flawed. The truth is there is alot to be learned, and if someone would not go to a church to learn, but are still curious....I suggest reading the Bible. Read 2 pages a day. If that person isnt affected in some capacity, then I would be truly surprised.

I usually avoid these type of threads, as interesting as they are, as they usually turn into a pissin' match. But this thread has been civil, which is nice for a change Kudos to Rodent and Sean for discussing in a nice way their different beliefs. It was good to read a friendly exchange of ideas...and that's the only way people learn from each other.

Right. And Omnizoa will definitely take you to that apex.

Arguments about God can become heated and protracted, because they ripple throughout a person's entire worldview.

I'd like to remind people of that before they pop in to offer some glib here's-my-two-cents dismissal, too, which usually happens a lot in threads like this (and has already happened a couple of times here).

State what you believe, argue for it, whatever. That's everyone's right. But if you're confidently dismissing any major side of a subject the smartest people in history have argued about, the only thing that really tells us is that you haven't thought about this seriously.

You don't need church or any other special place in order to worship God, you can do it at home at any moment of the day with words you chose, that is what makes it special, not repeating words some guy wrote.

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“By definition, you have to live until you die. Better to make that life as complete and enjoyable an experience as possible, in case death is shite, which I suspect it will be.”

The problem as I see it with people for the outside looking in on Christianity is they become obsessed with what they see as rules and regulations for entrance into the club. God's moral laws are set forth for our benefit. They are not stipulations on salvation. Jesus saved us the job is done. We only need admit we are flawed and try to press in to God. This isn't a hard concept for most unbelievers to understand. Start talking to anyone about spirituality, you normally get the I don't believe in Santa Clause or Unicorns standard response. Then they will begin to talk about trying to help others. They will talk about being peaceful, about being respectful to those around them. Christian principles are universal. We may disagree about what gets us to the place of selflessness, but most of us agree that the more selfless we become the better off we are. God's moral laws are our guide to get to that place, but none of that is a requirement. When you believe and try to press in on that belief, you will naturally try to become as much like Christ as possible. The truth is, that most of the "rules" that unbelievers focus on are the bottom of the rung for Christians. When you try to pursue a life of selflessness you begin to see how truly selfish we are. The pursuit is the thing, but the pursuit must never be mistaken for an obligation. God is uninterested in works if they are done out of a sense of obligation. He is only interested us becoming selfless in our love for others becoming a part of our nature. It is impossible to be sure but it becomes our true desire the closer we get to God. Hope this makes at least a little bit of sense. It is a hard thing for me to write about. I am passionate about it because the most frustrating thing as a Christian for me is when people talk about my faith as if it is a list of obligations. One of the big problems with the church in our culture is that we present a lifestyle before we present Christ. It should work the other way around. If we presented complete acceptance the lifestyle becomes a natural progression for the believer. If you read Matthew 5:17 through the end of the chapter you can see Christ talking about this very thing. The Pharisees were obsessed with obeying the laws from a physical stand point. Christ was beginning to try and show them that the law is meant to be fulfilled in a spiritual sense. That hating another is the equivalent of killing them. This sounds like nonsense to the physical mind, but we are called to a place of spiritual enlightenment.

Anyway, I got to stop. I could go on forever and I am sure half the site has me on block if they read even a little bit of this.

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Letterboxd

Are you just like Robin Williams in The World According to Garp? Didn't he go to a Catholic school or something like that?

I must say -- the fact that you were brought up around nuns -- this makes sense to me for some reason.

I wasnt brought up by nuns and wasnt raised at a catholic boarding school if thats what youre picturing. Remember Sexy Im from suburban Florida, there are no old traditions here.

No Im not T.S. Garp and my life doesnt have anything in common with his, though I always did want to fly.

Are we talking about the old gods or the new?
There is only one god, Death, and what do we say to death?

Not today.

I think SC can been unhelpfully reflexive sometimes.

Your previous post presumes a familiarity with my debate habits.

Devil's Advocate is a valuable debate tool. Don't dismiss something that can refine your arguments.

What needs closure? This "meaning of life" stuff is so often presented as this open-wound-problem. Why must your life have any meaning or purpose to live it?

I ask because children are raised into occupying themselves with hobbies and interests and find value in family and friends long before they can ever truly conceptualize something as vast as grand plans or the meaning of their existence.

Is that an analogy for life? Who isn't taking their lives seriously?

Or are you suggesting that you're not being serious unless you subscribe to someone else's uninformed ideas?

*laughs*

So belief is enriching regardless of what it is?

Well, Zotis is here and it's clearly dominated by theists at the moment. "Walking into the lion's den" so to speak.

You know, I recall AGREEING with you when we had that debate about free will, Sexy.

Are you sure you don't just get burnt out on arguments?

I think it'd be more accurate to say they don't have anything serious to contribute.

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"Well, at least your intentions behind the UTTERLY DEVASTATING FAULTS IN YOUR LOGIC are good." - Captain Steel

A question for believers who'd care to answer it:

Is the Bible the divine word of God?

(it's not a gotcha or a trap. I'm just interested)

I almost titled this thread The Theists vs. Atheists Tournament.

When you think about it, this is kind of a funny way to put it because one theist can have entirely different views and a totally separate deity than another theist.

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I believe the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God. When I have my doubts, which thankfully come fewer and farther between now, I read or think about a book like Isiah. So many of the writings of the prophets in the OT read like NT teachings. These are books that were written hundreds of years before Jesus. There are other reasons, but that thought keeps me very grounded.