The Movie Forums Top 100 of All-Time Refresh: Countdown

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Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
The Big Lebowski (Coen Bros., 1998)
; Cult Rating:




The Coens do the slacker SoCal Dude, and as far as the main characters go, they do them extremely well. Everybody in the pic above could scarcely be better. However, for me, the film is let down by the convoluted "Big" film noir plot and the characters involved with that, especially poor Julianne Moore. What I have to say won't change anybody's mind though. I think it's funny and entertaining but only half-successful. Now, to show you what I mean and how screwed-up I am, I think it's twice as successful as another offbeat modern film noir, The Long Goodbye, so I'm ducking and covering now...

Chinatown (Roman Polanski, 1974)




Chinatown begins with almost a perfect recreation of the best opening credits which a classic mystery NEVER actually began with. The Sepiatone, the fast scroll, Jerry Goldsmith's sexy, jazzy score, the mistaken-identity opening, Gittes' obsession with sex... they're all perfect.

And the film does build and build... My fave mystery (both as book and novel) has always been The Maltese Falcon, but Sam Spade never lets anybody get his number. Scripter Robert Towne lets Nicholson's Gittes fall for Evelyn Mulwray (Faye Dunaway), and their chemistry is terrific, so by the time we reach the most-Noirish ending of any Noir, our guts are just as busted up as Gittes. The ending is not rushed at all. After all, what do you want to see? Gittes cry and then go blow away Noah Cross like the ending of Taxi Driver? I don't think so, I hope.

You know, I've seen this movie so many damn times and the first time I saw it was one of the first drive-ins I went to in 1974, but for some strange reason, I never realized that Nicholson's Jake Gittes acted almost completely like an amateur at the beginning of Chinatown. I mean, Sam Spade seems like a pro in The Maltese Falcon, but when one of Gittes' "operatives" takes photos and shows them to him, Gittes blows him off ("Is that all you got?") and shows no signs of realizing who Noah Cross (John Huston) is.

Then, later on when Gittes is doing his own photographic essays, he knocks down some tiles a la Ben-Hur to try to announce his presence!

The scene where the "real" Evelyn Mulwray shows up is a classic where Gittes talks about "contemplating the moon", but it introduces many of the concepts of Film Noir into modern film usage. "Noir" literally means "Black" in French, but since most film noirs were made and shot in America before the French defined the term, I think that we are allowed to adapt the definition to mean anything which seems to involve a man, a woman, a mystery and something "Pitch Black". I cannot think of a plot more "black" or "noir" than Chinatown, so you will never convince me that it's not a perfect example of film noir. Even though the cinematography by John Alonzo of Chinatown is often crisp and bright, the plotting is dark and murky, but that doesn't mean that Alonzo doesn't go out of his way to use plenty of shadows throughout the film.

An homage to The Maltese Falcon is apparently the character named Ida Sessions. Well, Iva was the name of Sam Spade's partner Miles Archer's wife, and Spade was having an affair with her before Miles got "lead poisoning" and died. Let's see. It's also about halfway through Chinatown that one of the great reveals occurs and I'm talking about the line, "It's bad for the glass."

Gittes may be an amateur as a private dick, but he does go out of his way to sing about what he thinks of the real Evelyn Mulwray - "I love you and just the way you look tonight... "

What do you think of the scene in the bathroom where Gittes finds the flaw in Evelyn's iris? Wasn't that just about the sexiest scene in screen history?

As Chinatown inexorably moves on to its finale, who else is haunted by Gittes' comment that in Chinatown he was trying to keep somebody from being hurt? Chinatown is crammed with scenes which no other film contains. Do any others contain chases through orange fields? How about people getting knifed in the nose and spending 40% of the film with a huge bandage on the nose? Then again, many films refer to something which happened to a character before the movie started, but very few do not reveal what it was that happened [in Chinatown].

How about all the fun clues and foreshadowing spread throughout the movie which lead you to the identity of the murderer and the chief baddie in the flick? In the very first scene where Curly [who rules] (Burt Young) looks at the photos which Gittes got of his wife cheating, Curly says, "They don't pay you as much for skipjack as they do for albacore." Later when Gittes looks at the photos of Mulwray arguing with who turns out to be Noah Cross, Walsh says he could only make out one phrase due to all the noisy traffic, "apple core". In Yelbertson's office, there are several photographs of big fish on the walls. Later on, in Yelberton's secretary's room, Gittes sees lots of photos of Mulwray and Cross and learns who Cross is.

Just for fun, the "midget" (Polanski) who slices up Gittes' nose tells him that next time he'll cut the rest of it off and feed it to his goldfish. Later on, Gittes speaks the line, "What do you think of them apples?" just in case you forgot about "apple core". Gittes finally meets Cross and has lunch with him on Catalina Island at the Albacore Club. His lunch is a fish served with the head on. Cross says he prefers them that way and Gittes says that it's fine "as long as you don't serve the chicken that way." Of course, later on we learn that the Old Age Home is "sponsored" and does some work for the Albacore Club. Then we also learn that Mrs. Mulwray is Noah Cross's daughter.

As a side note, in the restaurant where the pianist plays "The Way You Look Tonight" the arrangement seems to highlight how much the melody resembles that of "As Time Goes By" (Casablanca).
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[quote=rauldc14;2166958]The remaining films:
*The Godfather
*Shawshank Redemption
*Casablanca
*Goodfellas
*Pulp Fiction
Reservoir Dogs
*Fellowship of the Ring
Dark Knight
Up
*Raiders of the Lost Ark
*Blade Runner
*Jaws
*Taxi Driver
*Alien
*2001
*Dr. strangelove
*Lawrence of Arabia
All About Eve
Citizen Kane
*Fargo
Wall E
Social Network
Inception
*Apocalypse now
On the Waterfront
Double Indemnity
The Master
Rashomon


Everyone very confident on Rashomon, but which started film would miss? Fargo I suppose. And I don't have Citizen Kane started either.



Skepsis and Daniel and matt and others all over this one. Nice job! Genuinely wasn't sure who would get them.

Particularly glad the "city slicker" thing got noticed.





I was one of the three MoFos who had Chinatown as their numero uno. Which should be no surprise round these here parts. When forced to choose one movie above all others as my favorite I always say, "Forget it, Jake...it's Chinatown." Absolutely perfect. I like The Big Lebowski, of course, but it is not one of my top three Coen Brothers movies and I voted for another which will not make the cut.

Chinatown is my eighth to show and now I think I only have five more coming.

HOLDEN'S LIST
1. Chinatown (#17)
8. Once Upon a Time in the West (#31)
10. Singin’ in the Rain (#64)
15. North by Northwest (#57)
16. Young Frankenstein (#77)
19. Brazil (#100)
23. Unforgiven (#43)
24. One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest (#33)
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Chinatown was on my list. Compelling story, Strong performances. Great film.


I've never been a fan of The Big Lebowski. I know a lot of people love it but I don't get what all the fuss is about. Definitely not in the top 20 films of all time, but each to their own I guess.



Everyone very confident on Rashomon, but which started film would miss? Fargo I suppose. And I don't have Citizen Kane started either.
From my list Rashomon is the one that misses I think. It'd be a surprise but not as big a surprise as any of the others.



I avoided The Big Lebowski for years as I didn't think it would be my kind of thing. Eventually decided to give it a go in 2016 and was surprised at just how entertaining it was (even if it only made me smile and not laugh). No problem at all with it being on this list, even if I do think it is still a little too high.

Chinatown is great and, having not watched it for a few years, will probably be one of those to appear on this that I get the itch to revisit in the very near future.

Seen: 74/84 (Own: 38/84)
My list:  


Faildictions (Eternal vsn 1.0):
16. Only Angels Have Wings (1939)
15. East Of Eden (1955)



I've never been a fan of The Big Lebowski. I know a lot of people love it but I don't get what all the fuss is about. Definitely not in the top 20 films of all time, but each to their own I guess.
Gotta agree with this. Love a lot of the actors involved, love the Coens, but for some reason it just never struck me the same way. It's good, I enjoy it, but I've never been able to understand the abiding (heh) love so many people have for it. But then, I guess a lot of the Coen comedies have varied in quality (for me) compared to the dramas. I absolutely adore Raising Arizona and I imagine that confuses other people the same way.



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The funniest moment in the movie, Walter's face after saying "the whites". 14 seconds in.....

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How did I ultimately not have Big L's Lifestyles of the Poor and Duderous on my list? (I did have a certain other cult comedy that in retrospect is a less than ideal choice). This has been a Top 100 fixture for me since I started making them and is definitely top 50 at least, though it definitely feels as though I have to space the viewings out a bit at this point to keep the magic alive, which I think was a bit of a factor in ruling against it (but then again, I don't want to restart the debate about the relevance of replay value - or do I?). In any case, an entry that really ties the list together.

Speaking of spacing out rewatches, Chinatown is the kind of film where its strengths are ultimately the thing that keeps me from ever revisiting it. The labyrinthine and shocking mystery, the unpleasant sleaze and horror infused into its seemingly conventional gumshoe atmosphere, the Polanski of it all...certainly enough to make me put it on my most recent top 100, but it feels like I haven't watched it in about a decade. Maybe this year I rewatch it and see how it holds up.
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It's been decades since last seen "Chinatown", so I don't recall much. A rewatch is in order. What more is to say about the quote machine called " The Big Lebowski". Top five Coen in my book.

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Gotta agree with this. Love a lot of the actors involved, love the Coens, but for some reason it just never struck me the same way. It's good, I enjoy it, but I've never been able to understand the abiding (heh) love so many people have for it. But then, I guess a lot of the Coen comedies have varied in quality (for me) compared to the dramas. I absolutely adore Raising Arizona and I imagine that confuses other people the same way.
Indeed. I am a huge Coen fan but outside of a couple scenes I don't love Raising Arizona.
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Love both of these but not enough to put on my list. Lebowski showing worries me for Fargo. I really need to see Chinatown again.



Both directors are now in the multiples.

IV
  • Alfred Hitchcock: North By Northwest (57), Rear Window (40), Psycho (27), Vertigo (19)
III
  • James Cameron: Terminator 2: Judgment Day (71), The Terminator (56), Aliens (37)
  • Steven Spielberg: E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial (89), Saving Private Ryan (83), Schindler's List (41)
II
  • Akira Kurosawa: Ikiru (95), Seven Samurai (26)
  • Andrej Tarkovsky: Andrej Rublev (67), Stalker (25)
  • Billy Wilder: The Apartment (84), Sunset Boulevard (53)
  • Coen Brothers: No Country for Old Men (51), The Big Lebowski (18)
  • David Fincher: Fight Club (52), Se7en (49)
  • John Carpenter: Halloween (44), The Thing (20)
  • Milos Forman: Amadeus (50), One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (33)
  • Paul Thomas Anderson: Magnolia (74), There Will Be Blood (60)
  • Peter Jackson: The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (42), The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (28)
  • Robert Zemeckis: Forrest Gump (65), Back to the Future (34)
  • Roman Polanski: Rosemary's Baby (91), Chinatown (17)
  • Sergio Leone: Once Upon a Time in the West (31), The Good, the Bad & the Ugly (23)
  • Stanley Kubrick: A Clockwork Orange (32), The Shining (21)
  • Victor Fleming: Gone with the Wind (55), The Wizard of Oz (36)
The Big Lebowski isn't their best film, but it was well-acted, fun to watch and quite twisty. I'd say it's their fourth best.


Chinatown was the movie that got me checking out more cinema. Before, I only checked it out for Jack Nicholson and I probably wouldn't have explored film as often if it wasn't the first film I ever gave a 100/100.



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"Chinatown" is a great movie. Jack Nicholson was probably my most favorite actor in the 70s, and Robert Towne is the best writer since that era.


I saw "The Big Lebowski" so many times in Germany, me and the friend I was staying with had our own "code" - basically communicating via movie quotes.



18. The Big Lebowski


17. Chinatown
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THE BIG LEBOWSKI is a lot of fun. I saw this early, before the cult like devotion formed around it, and I had only heard bad things at the time. I was baffled after seeing it why so many had issues with it. It's just a really clever, enjoyable, character rich movie. Maybe people simply just didn't gel with what it was homage to. Or didn't care. As much as I like it though (and still do), it's nowhere near the top of my Coen's. I much prefer when they inject a little of their special sauce, which is mostly composed of a nice blend of cynicism, creepy pathos and broken dreams. Lebowski seems emotionally empty in comparison to their best work (Blood Simple, A Simple Man, Barton Fink, No Country). It's a lark. It's a fizzy palette cleanser. But nothing that sticks to my soul. And while I like Jeff Bridges a lot in this (a LOT, probably one of my favorite comedic performances, ever), I can sometimes use a little less John Goodman. He's a great talent, but I always get a whiff of a gnawing insecurity in his soul, and it can make his performances at times a couple of notches too desperate for my tastes. And I also really don't like the Juliette Moore art-world element much.



CHINATOWN: How to even talk about this movie? Much of its greatness is in how densely it packs all of its narrative details and hidey-holes. And since I have a brain that can't remember plot points very well in even the simplest of films, I'm always at a loss to speak with any real clarity on why this movie is so endlessly fascinating. Maybe it's in part because I can never remember it entirely, and with each watch, new details appear in that glittering California sun. Or maybe they are old details, just forgotten by my brain rot. As a result, it has a feeling of being entirely fresh and as sturdy as an old artifact of Hollywood's past. It is kind of what movies are meant to be. Or great art. Obsessively exact, while remaining murky and mysterious and always out of reach. Beautiful film.



Big Lebowski was on my list. In addition to all the quotable parts there are so many little moments that nobody ever mentions that make me laugh, like when he goes to Maude’s and there’s that guy reading a magazine and giggling and then him and Maude talk on the phone in Japanese and start laughing, and right before the scene ends it cuts to a wide of The Dude looking baffled. Makes me laugh so hard every time.


Chinatown took a couple watches for me to appreciate and I do like it a lot but maybe not as much as everyone else.



Two great films that barely missed my Top 25...

Had The Big Lebowski at #37. Weirdly enough, I didn't care much about it the first time I saw it. However, as time went by, I found myself rethinking about scenes and quoting lines from it. I went back to it a couple of months later and that's when it clicked. Now it's easily one of my favorite comedies.

As for Chinatown, I had it at #55. It's really an excellent film and a great performance showcase for Nicholson and Dunaway. Plus, it has one of the greatest villains in John Huston, and one of the bleakest, darkest endings I've seen. Love it.
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