Best Noir film of all time

I kill myself arguing this one. Normally, the debate ends with semantics over the definition of Noir. So anyone with an "official" definition should chime in early, before I start getting answers like "rush hour 2"

I'm siding with Taxi Driver right now, but Double Indemnity is putting up quite a fight. Feel free to answer with whatever you feel, I've found that too often new movies are left out of these discussions, simply for fear of a "Classics Film Buff/ Film Nazi" retribution.

I'll probably change my Favorite noir tommorow, or even today, I just rented a whole bunch that I have'nt seen in a while, and I wrote this without putting much thought into it.

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"We are all worms, but I do believe I am a glow-worm."
--Winston Churchill

"Forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown (1974)."

Waaaaay too many others to make anything approaching a complete list, but certainly also up near the tippy-top for me (in no particular order) are The Killing (1956), BladeRunner (1982), In A Lonely Place (1950), The Maltese Falcon (1941), Night Moves (1975), The Blue Dahlia (1946), Night of the Hunter (1955), Sunset Blvd. (1950), Ace in the Hole (1951), Out of the Past (1947), Odds Against Tomorrow (1959), Angel Heart (1987), The Asphalt Jungle (1950), Point Blank (1967), Pickup on South Street (1953), Taxi Driver (1976), The Big Heat (1953), The Girl Hunters (1963), Criss Cross (1948), The Killers (1946), The Conversation (1974), Leon (1994), The Devil Thumbs a Ride (1947), Touch of Evil (1958) and on and on and on....

That's a great twenty-five titles from me, and I could do another twenty-five easy. But I'll stop there for now.

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"Film is a disease. When it infects your bloodstream it takes over as the number one hormone. It bosses the enzymes, directs the pineal gland, plays Iago to your psyche. As with heroin, the antidote to Film is more Film." - Frank Capra

Great list!. I completely forgot about Chinatown, and watched bladerunner for the 100th time this morning - I'm the type of person to forget movies I just recently watched- , they both deserve a place.

If our member L.B. Jeffries ever shows up again (where he been hiding so long?), I'm sure he'll add a great list too. There are definitely a few hard-core Noir fans here (plenty of casual ones too), so welcome!

I'm already kicking myself for not mentioning Stray Dog (1949), Le Samourai (1967), Le Doulos (1961), The Conformist (1971), The American Friend (1977), Les Diaboliques (1954), Laura (1944), Gilda (1946), Detour (1945), Cape Fear (1962 & 1991), The Hustler (1961), Cat People (1942), Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956), The Set-Up (1949), The Glass Key (1942), Gun Crazy (1959), Blue Velvet (1986), Kiss Me Deadly (1955) and Panic in the Streets (1950).

See, there's twenty more just like THAT!

Holden, what'd you think of The Man Who Wasn't There?

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While not my favorite Coen Bros. flick (Miller's Crossing is still best of the best for me), like all of their efforts it's an amazing and unique film. And like all of their films, appreciation deepens and deepens with each repeat viewing. The Man Who Wasn't There made my personal top ten of 2001 list (click HERE), for whatever that's worth.

As for how The Man Who Wasn't There pertains to this discussion specifically - as a Post Modern Existential Noir, it's a wonderful take on (and take-off of) the genre, of course all filtered through Joel & Ethan's singular sensibilty and style.

Why, what did you think of it?

Well I thought I'd get the opinion there and into the thread. I still haven't seen it. I was busy [not that I didn't try to break the rules of the time/space continuum to not be busy] for the one screening of the film at a cinema and I'm unsure if it has or hasn't been released on DVD here. The moment I've found out and gone to get it, I'll let you know.

I just thought I'd cover it in the discussion.
I'm going to assume that I'll enjoy it.

Although it doesn't pertain to the discussion, I haven't seen Miller's Crossing either. I'm off to hire it now.

LBJ last visited around six hours ago...but he hasn't posted in around three weeks. I think the site has taken a turn away from movie-oriented discussion over the last month or so, as evidenced in the fact that many regulars are doing just what he is: visiting all the time, but posting rarely.

Anyhoo, I don't want to street this thread off-topic...

I'm going to buy The Maltese Falcon and North by Northwest in the coming weeks; the former of course being one of the greatest noirs of them all.

I'm thinking either Chinatown or the 1991 version of Cape Fear (if that one is really noir). I guess I'm not into film noir that much...

EDIT: Oh! If Seven is film noir, then that is BY FAR my fave.

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One of the biggest myths told is that being intelligent is the absence of the ability to do stupid things.

I just saw Dark City which I considered to very noir-ish, until it went [in my opinion] to Hell in it's final act. Basically, the entire police story with William Hurt was fabulous. Dark and sinister. The entire man waking up and not knowing anything and having all these crimes to his name, very noir-ish. When it entered the absoloute sci-fi elements at the end, nyeh...

...I should see Blade Runner.

Christ, I agree with so many of these... too many to retype.

Just to get one up that hasn't been mentioned, I'll nominate Killer's Kiss, although it wouldn't be in my top twenty. Still a good flick, though.

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You were a demon and a lawyer? Wow. Insert joke here."

I'm too lazy to go threw what you've list Holden. But I'm sure we've list a bunch of the same just from a quick scan I can tell we have.

Some fall strongly under the Neo Noir (John Dahl's Kill me Again & Red Rock West) are great examples and some under Pulp Noir (Jim Thompson's The Grifters, The Killer Inside Me, The Getaway & The Killing dialogue)


The Third Man
Night of the Hunter
Touch of Evil
Maltese Falcon
Diabolique
Kiss Me Deadly
Force of Evil
Sweet Smell of Success
The Big Heat
Branded to Kill
Fallen Angel
Night Moves
Point Blank
Millers Crossing
The Girl Hunters
Laura
Witness for the Prosecution
The Big Combo
D.O.A.
The Wrong Man
Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid!
The Curse of the Jade Scopion
Kill Me Again
Red Rock West
Night and the City
White Heat
Pickup on South Street
Lady from Shanghai
Memento
Shoot the Piano Player
Mona Lisa
Asphalt Jungle
High and Low
Stray Dog
The Driver
The Long Goodbye
Hammett
House of Games
The Grifters
Blood Simple
In a Lonely Place
Murder My Sweet
Kansas City
Beat The Devil
Against All Odds
The Bride Wore Black
Angel Heart
The Killer inside Me

Wow.

We are talking film noir here, and no one mentions Blood Simple . Then we even start mentioning Coen Bros. movies, and still no one mentions Blood Simple .

???

My answer is simple: Blood Simple (1981)



Edited to add that I noticed Mr. Jeffries included Blood Simple on his list. It still received minor attention, though.

Fabulous list again, "HOLDEN" and "LB".....Ive got to get in earlier. All are absolute gems of the noir genre.....moody dark lighting, cool atmospheric score, plot twists, double crosses and murder. Man ya got to love it

I adore Hustons THE BIG HEAT, ASHPHALT JUNGLE, CHINATOWN, Fritz Lang's M, infact all those mentioned and any others from the late 30's to modern day entice and enthrall me. All the way through to the Coen's big three BLOOD SIMPLE, MILLERS CROSSING and THE MAN WHO WASN'T THERE and the tech noir of DARK CITY, BLADE RUNNER and TERMINATOR are also personal faves that just get better and better. Alan Parker's ANGEL HEART cant be endorsed enough.

Both versions of THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE are cool as hell and engrossing fun.

ONCE A THIEF with Alain Denon is a lesser discussed addition to the genre- made in the 50's witha scorching jazz score this one satisfy's.

I would add John Dahl's RED ROCK WEST and THE LAST SEDUCTION as worthy modern examples of teh genre..John Madeks ROMEO IS BLEEDING with Gary Oldman is also a worthy contribution to the genre. Christopher Nolan's MEMENTO takes it all to a new original level.


Carl reiner's send up DEAD MEN DON'T WEAR PLAID with Steve martin is an absolute delight that always makes me smile. More recently Martin did NOVACAINE & THE SPANISH PRISONER which are both well made noir intrigue that hold an original angle.

Could I include Dave Dobkin's CLAY PIGEONS as noir due to the plot twists and ingredients?? Vinnie Vaughn is in top form in this one and Joquain Phoneix is also superb.

An amazing genre with to many notable enteries I love to even touch on them all.....These are just a few new ones that ooze mystery and style.

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******"The Majority Is Always Wrong" Steve Mcqueen in Enemy Of The People******

Chinatown


The Maltese Falcon
The Big Sleep
The Man Who Wasnt There
DOA
Batman
Citizen Kane
Blood Simple
The Usual Suspects
Unforgiven
Momento

Just to name a few

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It's a god-awful small affair, To the girl with, the mousy hair, But her mummy is yelling "No", and her daddy has told her to go, But her friend is nowhere to be seen, Now she walks through her sunken dream, To the seat with the clearest view, And she's hooked to the silver screen, But the film is a saddening bore, For she's lived it ten times or more...

There are so many good ones from the "real" noir period. I don't know. The Big Sleep perhaps. The Killers is good too... Oh, and Crossfire (1947) by Edward Dmytryk is a must see as well.

My favourite neo noir by far is Se7en.

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

Theres no way I could do a noir list......actually....I think I will...theres no way I could narrow it down to some small number.....oh heck. I guess I will. (This isn't definate though...just at the moment...they change all the time....except for my top 3)

Top 5 Noir/Neo-Noir

5. Blood Simple



4. L. A. Confidential



3. The Usual Suspects



2. Chinatown



1. The Maltese Falcon

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"I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!" - Howard Beale

I probably should've split the Neo and classical noirs up...but....

Fantasy/Horror/Comedy Noir

5. Cast a Deadly Spell



4. Witch Hunt



3. Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid



2. Angel Heart



1. Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

And, my favorite:

Tech-Noir

5. 12 Monkeys



4. Alphaville



3. Strange Days



2. Minority Report



1. Blade Runner