Game of Thrones, Season 5

I didn't mention other people's negative opinions about the show's killing off characters because they're watching it. I guess I just don't see the point of you posting about a show you're not even watching.

And I think I did try to explain that I don't think this show kills off characters for shock value alone. Just because a few of us are in shock doesn't mean the deaths were gratuitous. I'm in shock because the nature of some of the deaths in last night's episode change my own theories about where the story is ultimately going. In the long view, that's actually a good thing. It means the writers are a few more steps ahead of me than I had previously thought.

But whatever. I wasn't trying to kick you out or anything -- I honestly just don't get why you'd post strong opinions in a thread about a show you don't watch. When I reread your original post, it still sounds dismissive to me. It didn't sound as if you were curious about the show at all. You already have formed opinions about it. And that's fine, too. I *don't* watch certain shows based on the hearsay of others. We all do that. Not a big deal.

But I don't go so far as to post generic negative opinions about shows like it in that show's thread if I'm not even watching that show. "Hey, this show you guys have been discussing forever? Well, I don't watch it. I won't watch it. And I hate when shows do things just like this one does! Carry on!"

Whatever.

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I meant that generically -- that viewers and readers GENERALLY aren't used to their heroes dying off so early. That's why GoT sticks out like a sore thumb.

And yet ... you know, Psycho did this sort of thing decades ago.

The finale had a rather Soprano feel to it. Didn't it? I knew Snow was toast as soon as the scene started.

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Would Stannis Baratheon and Henry the 5th be a valid comparison?

I don't think I even said anything negative about Games of Thrones in particular. I certainly have no reason to authentically criticize it since I haven't seen it. Gunslinger just said, "Season 5! The season where EVERYONE dies!!!!" --- and I felt, yes. That is one reason why I don't care for these shows. 'Cause it seems like they're all about people dying, all about killing off major characters, leaving everyone so shocked.

There's such overemphasis, I feel, on these types of shows -- like, you MUST watch Breaking Bad. And you know, maybe I could break this off into a separate thread, but I really don't want to have a debate about it or anything. Feel free to make your own, if you wish, anybody. For now it'll just have to be typical Sexy Celebrity rantings.

But anyway, I feel like there's a kind of pressure to watch these TV shows... and I just don't feel the desire to. But I hate that pressure. It's like with the Asian movies and the foreign films -- actually, it's WORSE. Movies I like -- a two hour story or so and you're done. But these TV shows... MONTHS of watching them. And then they just kill everybody to shock you. No thank you. Not being superior here, but it does not sound appetizing.

You guys have your fun, but I just couldn't help but coming in here and screaming, "WHY?!?!" And it's not a superior scream -- it's a frustrated, hopeless, exhausted scream. Anyway, this is more about why I said I usually don't care to watch this stuff a second time -- a movie, sure -- another two hours or so with the movie you already know is okay. But MONTHS of rewatching them... I don't know. I was in Target the other day looking at all the different TV show box sets they had for sale. I remember seeing Games of Thrones. I just thought... GOD. Who's gonna watch these hour long programs, all 10 seasons of them, over and over again? I also got rid of some of my TV show box sets that were like these. And I liked what it was, but rewatching them wasn't really desired. I guess it's okay to watch them once, but, my problem is they all look like the same thing -- take a bunch of beloved characters and kill them all off.

Bravo to the show that has 20 seasons of hour long shows and death never happens, or is rare. You mentioned Golden Girls -- I'd love to see 20 seasons of hour long Golden Girls shows.

Well... in a way, yes, in a way, no. It might get to be too much.

Okay, I'm done.

Well that was pretty meh. The scenes with Stannis and that Arya killing scene were great, but the rest just really forgettable. Did that scene with the candle suck or what.

Great end to the season, knowing what happens in the books though I figure some of this stuff was gonna happen but nonetheless it was still executed pretty well.

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I am sitting here trying to think of the candle scene and can't so my guess is I agree. Remind me.

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Brienne stops looking just as Sansa is about to give the signal. Easily the worst scene of this season.

Didn't even catch it but yeah that bothers me. Brienne has been doing nothing but staring at that window for months.

Okay, first, please don't call me "mate" or "dude." I'm not trying to be grumpy, but I'm just not a dude…

Second, I know some of the visions are not true. BUT, I'm sorry, Jon's story has been a huge part of this story. With Stannis gone, there isn't anyone at the wall to help save Westeros. Furthermore, I cannot fathom anyone writing a story with as much of a backstory of Jon's parentage and then just killing him like that.

Ned's death meant something. It was the catalyst. Robb's death meant something. It pushed the story along making the Lannisters more powerful. There really wasn't anywhere for Robb to go. Joffrey's death meant the beginning of a new chapter for Tyrion and Cersei's downfall and ultimate madness (that's what I think will happen with Jaime killing her). If Jon dies like that, it means NOTHING. None of that matters before if that is his ending. Why would you ever think that is a satisfying or even understandable end to Jon? The other deaths MAKE SENSE. Granted, we haven't seen or read where it will go, but there is no way his story is over. It just defies logic.

Plus: I'm sick of all the "George subverting the genre" talk and how he is undoing the tropes. I say BS. He's still telling a story. He's a fantasy fan. I cannot imagine that goodness will not, in some way, triumph. He still needs to write a satisfactory ending.

And don't even tell me that "Ice" isn't important to Jon's character and story. Ice and Fire is a lot of things: Stark and Targaryen, White Walkers and Dragons, JON and Dany/Tyrion.

You should be more careful with people like me. I'm delicate. This hurts. I'm extremely worried about Jon Snow. I love Jon Snow, and dammit, I will not accept he is dead until I know for sure.



P.S. Sam said to Olly, "[Jon] always comes back." I think Jon is Frodo. He will ultimately save Westeros, but for some reason, probably due to his resurrection, he will not remain in Westeros. He will "die" in much the same way as Frodo -- he will travel to a land of broken glass…

I can count on one hand the number of major characters that die in Breaking Bad.

I can't count it on my fingers for Game of Thrones.

However, before you say any damn thing else, maybe you should give these shows the benefit of the doubt. I find that with most things in life that are hyped up and talked about (except Lost) it's that way for a reason.

The thing about Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones that make them so wonderful and make them something that everyone is talking about the next day and make them such a powerful part of the pop culture zeitgeist is that they never make character deaths about the shock. Are the deaths often shocking? Of course. Are they ever pointless or out of nowhere? Never. All of the major deaths in these shows are the result of the actions of the characters themselves. In Game of Thrones when someone dies it can always be traced back to some prior action or actions that set things in motion. That can't be said about a lot of other shows. How many people died on other shows (Lost, ER, Grey's Anatomy) where the death wasn't earned in the narrative? There are characters on other shows who are crushed by helicopters or hit by cars or other deus ex machina circumstances. That is done for shock value.

Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones never have to play those games because they actually have people working on them who give a crap enough about the story to ensure that the deaths occur for a reason.

I highly suggest you watch them both. Especially Breaking Bad. It's just really, really good TV.

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I just finished the finale. You know Ive said often that nobody in this show is safe, and yet I was still shocked.

Pretty confident next season will be better.

Between baseball going south for my fantasy team, and this last episode of Thrones....what a wind taker outer this has been! My guesses to what theyre building up to, these arent spoilers but I might be right, so potential spoiler perhaps?

So I believe the Dathraki have come to hail Danny as their Queen. If not, then shes dead. The end.

Someone told me long ago about this series, and Brans powers are more extensive than whats detailed. I thought Arya was gonna become the GRRM version of Hit Girl until this last episode. Of course Daredevil and Quai Chang Kangs master never had a problem.

Theyre definitely building for a return of the Hound, but the Frankenmountain story arc couldnt be stupider. I mean truly, when Frankenmountain came and carried Cersei away, I thought "Wow! That Walk Of Shame scene was so compelling until that campy display at the end." Dorne this season looked like high literature compared to this.

Thank goodness Tyrion and the Spider are back together. Overall Tyrion was out of his element and lost this season. It was supposed to be, but itll be good to get his banter back.

As soon as that bitch kissed her I knew she was dead! Especially when she told Jaimie she knew and was ok with everything. Any scene with that much possible positive closure has to have GRRMs hand of death touch added to it.

Jon Snow. Never knew how much I liked him till he was gone. Always felt there could have been MUCH better actor playing that part. I was surprised but more surprised that I was saddened. That whole glare scene between Jon Snow and Necromancer normally would mean an eventual faceoff, normally! For normal shows! sheesh. Screw the Nights Watch! I hope that Fire Woman gives them all the Fire God Herpes.

Sansa and Theon. Hell, they both could be dead and their dual suicide would be considered a happy ending compared to what their current existence was. Scary, huh?

Though it was a ruse to lure Jon Snow outside, boy he really did know nothing, I think it would be cool if Benji Stark did pop back up. Why? CAUSE THIS SHOW NEEDS MORE HEROES!!!!!!

With red priestess Melissandre reappearing just in time for Jon to get sixed, I have a feeling we may be in for some tricksy business.

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Youve never seen Breaking Bad SC?! You MUSTwatch the first episode. Do it now. Now!

Great episode!
I didn't think they would "end" that many story lines but this season was fantastic the final 3 episodes.

It always disappoints me to see idiotic behavior out of characters.. I hate that sort of writing.
John snow was telling a story to sam about how 'he raised his arms and all the dead stood up' I was thinking to myself - why the hell aren't you telling EVERYONE this? It's not the sort of thing that should be kept secret from the nights watch!

And then with brienne.. she has a squire, she could have told him to watch the window but instead they both run off together. That seemed really weak!

Regarding what others have said:

Sansa and theon aren't dead. They grew up in winterfell and they know how to escape.
Even if the ice started to melt there's still a huge mass of snow outside the castle to break their fall.

I would be shocked if the dothracki were there to hail Dany as their queen. It goes against everything I've learned about them as a people. More likely they will want to trade her for horses, etc.

I only just started to like john snow after the hard home episode. Go figure now they kill him off.
I think it was the saddest death in the show, with that little kid delivering the final blow.

Not surprised that the lanister girl was killed off. No woman in this show has ever shown an ounce of forgiveness. They never will. They always go after revenge and of course cersei will do the same.

Personally I liked the frakenzombie! I've been waiting for that dude to come into play for a long time.

With all of the baratheon brothers dead.. who would be king if tommen were revealed to be a bastard?

Also when those 3 were sitting in mereen talking about danny they should have been talking about who is going to ride the other 2 dragons!

For the wall..... lol

Gendry.