Game of Thrones, Season 5

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Season 5 Season finale. The one where EVERYONE dies... And they killed one of my favorite characters on the show!
This is why I don't care for these types of shows. They're all about trying to shock people by killing off all of the beloved characters. Seems like every time I hear about someone watching one of these hour long dramas, they are BEYOND shocked because of an unexpected death.

This just sounds so tiring. Are people really still that shocked when someone on TV dies? It seems like it's all they do now.

This and the fact that these types of shows never really interest me enough to watch them all a second time is why I don't deal with TV anymore, except for maybe some old 30 minute comedy rerun where I can laugh and not expect everyone to die.



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This is why I don't care for these types of shows. They're all about trying to shock people by killing off all of the beloved characters. Seems like every time I hear about someone watching one of these hour long dramas, they are BEYOND shocked because of an unexpected death.

This just sounds so tiring. Are people really still that shocked when someone on TV dies? It seems like it's all they do now.

This and the fact that these types of shows never really interest me enough to watch them all a second time is why I don't deal with TV anymore, except for maybe some old 30 minute comedy rerun where I can laugh and not expect everyone to die.
Then it's a good thing there are plenty of other threads for you to post in.

I don't watch sitcoms anymore because I so rarely find one that isn't full of predictable jokes. But you don't see me going into threads about those shows I don't watch and smugly stating that I have better things to do with my time. I'll post here... because I watch this show and love it.

Those of us posting in this thread are watching this series ... and despite having characters die, we're kind of enjoying it. So, seriously -- why even post here, claiming some sort of TV-viewing superiority or enlightenment? Start a Golden Girls thread or something.




Standing in the Sunlight, Laughing
I thought the CGI of Dany riding the dragon had a distinctly Falcor/Neverending Story look to it, frankly. Ruined the awe and majesty of it for me.





As for Stannis, my first thought was this: BOY, is Davos going to be really pissed when he gets back! (And of course, this would NOT have happened had he been there.) He's been more loving to Shireen than anyone else. My prediction is that this somehow means a complete break between Davos and Stannis. Whether it's Davos being completely disillusioned about Stannis being the real king, or Stannis punishing Davos for the inevitable backlash he'll get for what he's done I don't yet know.

But I'm sure we're going to find out.
Same here, but I honestly can't think of another way to do it. Falcor looked like a MUCH more comfortable ride, though.

Spoilers ahoy about tonight's: (I tried to spoiler tag this and it completely vanished...???)

I was happy Brienne got to off Stannis, and that Arya got the satisfaction of killing what's his name. And that Sam and family got away before the end. And thrilled that Theon took action finally. I can't imagine they jumped to their deaths, but no idea really.

But this was a rough night. Very sad about Jon Snow. And he was the Watchers' best military mind, so good luck to them when winter comes.

Also, did I miss something last season or is Bran still off with the Children of the Forest? That kid is going to look 20 by the time we see him again. :/
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Then it's a good thing there are plenty of other threads for you to post in.

I don't watch sitcoms anymore because I so rarely find one that isn't full of predictable jokes. But you don't see me going into threads about those shows I don't watch and smugly stating that I have better things to do with my time. I'll post here... because I watch this show and love it.

Those of us posting in this thread are watching this series ... and despite having characters die, we're kind of enjoying it. So, seriously -- why even post here, claiming some sort of TV-viewing superiority or enlightenment? Start a Golden Girls thread or something.

Excuse me, but how am I acting superior?

I came in here just to say that I'm tired of shows that do nothing but kill characters for shock value. If I did it here, it's because there wasn't anywhere else around to do so -- and this thread seemed fitting and it's what came to my mind. It has nothing to do with me trying to be superior. I simply wanted to comment about the TV shows of today.

I did not say -- or act like I was saying -- "I don't watch these shows because I have better things to do with my time!"



We've gone on holiday by mistake
There's an interview with Kit and he says he's not coming back. I say that is BS. He's too important to the story. And to be honest, if he doesn't come back, why have I wasted all this time on this stupid story?

I'm pretty upset right now. I don't like them playing games. So if untrue, not happy, and if true, seriously not happy.
If he doesn't then **** this show! Surely Melissandra showing up right before the act isn't just coincidence, resurrection skills perhaps? just like the Brotherhood. If not what would be the point of all the Jon/Melissandra scenes this season, speculation about Jon's lineage etc. Seems like a death too far.


Depressing end to a fairly lacklustre season.
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To be fair though, there can only be one winner of the "game," which means all other contenders have to die. Plus surprises like this keep watchers on their toes. And there's only going to be, what, two more seasons? I expect we'll being seeing a lot of major characters die off more rapidly than we have seen before.
Here's the problem with that:

The great joy of reading these books and following this story is all the background: Robert's Rebellion and the stories around Jon Snow's birth. The House of the Undying and the prophecies seen by Dany. Bran's story and the mystical part of that. I know much of that isn't in the show, but Jon's parentage was finally touched on this season. If Jon just flat-out dies, then all of that is for naught. I just cannot accept that.

I also hope that George is actually writing some kind of story where the Starks get some kind of happy ending… why were we introduced to this family and taken on this ride then? Just to watch them all die? I can't accept that either.

It needs to mean something. All of it needs to mean something. And like Austruck said, we need the ICE of Ice and Fire and that has always been Jon.



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I'm so glad they showed us troops abandoning Stannis, obviously it was going to happen after that burning. Atmosphere of everyone abandoning him was fantastic, his soldiers, his wife, his "red women"... I thought Stannis is going to die differently, in battle, this was good enough I guess. I didn't like only one thing here, they were not in hard position, snow in their camp (last episode) was normal, maybe even small considering they are in the North, they had big lake and river to follow all the way up to Winterfell, so acting they are in horrible position is kinda BS and later on when snow "melted" we don't see any change, Winterfell is still deep in snow and there is no way for Stannis to take it even if he had all his men. This may be just my nitpicking.

Arya killing scene was brilliant and later on it got even better, I love how they showed all those faces and then blindness, good way to keep us on edge of our seats.

Dorne is still kinda crap, nothing from Doran once again... I doubt he had anything to do with what happened on the ship, if he did something with it, he crapped into his own mouth (he said we don't kill little girls) and it would be stupid decision honestly, Jaime could cut his son down, so yea, I doubt it was Doran. If Snakes did it on their own, then its again stupid as Doran is on TV show becoming this weak character, who dose not know anything... So yea, Dorne was horrible this season, with one good scene, I hope it will get better. That is my only "season long" complaint.

Theon and Sansa escaping was interesting, scene with arrow was intense, they probably survived the jump because snow is supposed to be deep (I don't see them surviving in reality but oh well...).

Now for Jon... I'm sad there was no pink letter, but I'm happy with everything else, fantastic scene, "for the watch".
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I work for Keyser Soze. He feels you owe him.
Here's the problem with that:

The great joy of reading these books and following this story is all the background: Robert's Rebellion and the stories around Jon Snow's birth. The House of the Undying and the prophecies seen by Dany. Bran's story and the mystical part of that. I know much of that isn't in the show, but Jon's parentage was finally touched on this season. If Jon just flat-out dies, then all of that is for naught. I just cannot accept that.

I also hope that George is actually writing some kind of story where the Starks get some kind of happy ending… why were we introduced to this family and taken on this ride then? Just to watch them all die? I can't accept that either.

It needs to mean something. All of it needs to mean something. And like Austruck said, we need the ICE of Ice and Fire and that has always been Jon.
Mate, you read the books and you were surprised with what happened? Why? It happens almost the same in the books. Also, stories about Jon's birth are that...Stories, even if they are true, he is still a bastard, no matter who his daddy is, it wouldn't change anything. Now, about visions, its obvious by this time, you can't trust visions, you need a LOT of exp and knowledge in order to read them correctly, even then people get them wrong. Mel is best example of how visions can be BS, George himself said, not all visions are true and they are not read correctly all the time. To putt it simple they can also be wrong, from the start. Dude, you can't take visions and theories as facts, some of them are logical, have evidence and are probably true, but until proven as facts and until they happen...

This is Game of Thrones/Song of Ice and Fire, there are no happy endings, in life people have horrible things happen to them, they live good and honestly, good people with horrible destiny, this is not children books, if you expect happy ending, it ain't coming. Jon played his part, he fought WW, he found out how to kill them, he found love, and he watched it die in his arms, he saved wildlings, he defended the wall, he was elected Lord Commander, he helped Stannis, you learn lore about Winter, WW and everything else around the Wall through Jon, his story was FAR from pointless. We don't even know if he truly is dead, Mel is there, but in all honesty, another revival? That would be crap writing and very lazy.

There is ICE, White Walkers are ice, and there is fire, Dragons are fire. You see, that is the problem, "The Song of Ice and Fire" can be read differently from man to man, that is the problem of visions and theories. Someone might read it as 2 different Gods, someone might read it as 2 different characters, someone might read it as dragons and WW, someone might read it as 2 cultures, 2 army's...



The thing isolated becomes incomprehensible
I think Jon Snow's death was a bit anti-climatic...I think it's pretty obvious he will return eventually, and if he doesn't it's bad writing...

There were a lot of things happening this season that supported that Snow is going to have a big role on future seasons. The WW King seeing him killing another WW, Melisandre's interest on him, etc... So, if he comes back, everyone is expecting it which makes this killing a lot less powerful. If he doesn't people will eventually forget it which again makes this killing a lot less powerful. IMO it was the worse moment of the whole series so far.



No one is talking about Dany. Is everyone just assuming this is the rest of her army like me?

Disappointed about Jon, but not surprised. I want to see the Starks succeed too, but was never confident that would ever happen.

Love the Arya stuff. I always find her story interesting. It feels so separate from everything else at this point but I am happy to go there.

GOT finally made me have some sympathy for Cersai. I didn't think that was possible. That scene was very effective. Problem is she will be twice as motivated to plot and scheme next year so I will probably hate her twice as much.

Good season, but I liked four so much it was probably never going to top it for me.
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Just watched it. What a powerful and brilliant episode. I had goosebumps watching Stannis Baratheon draw his sword in the face of the cavalry charge closing in on him, and the Jesus-like walk that Cersei took through the city was just a moving. I was also glad to see the return of Varys, and to see Theon Greyjoy turn good again. Jon Snow's death came as a big shock. I hope the White Walkers tear his killers apart!



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Excuse me, but how am I acting superior?

I came in here just to say that I'm tired of shows that do nothing but kill characters for shock value. If I did it here, it's because there wasn't anywhere else around to do so -- and this thread seemed fitting and it's what came to my mind. It has nothing to do with me trying to be superior. I simply wanted to comment about the TV shows of today.

I did not say -- or act like I was saying -- "I don't watch these shows because I have better things to do with my time!"
Could've saved it for the Shoutbox.
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LT and I have been sick, so we watched stuff all weekend. We capped the weekend off with this... LT was not a happy person when we went to sleep! Myself...the books weren't as decidedly final, leaving a bit of a chance for a return. After seeing the episode though...I dunno...Still sick, but I am attempting to work a bit today. LT still home in bed.
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Excuse me, but how am I acting superior?

I came in here just to say that I'm tired of shows that do nothing but kill characters for shock value. If I did it here, it's because there wasn't anywhere else around to do so -- and this thread seemed fitting and it's what came to my mind. It has nothing to do with me trying to be superior. I simply wanted to comment about the TV shows of today.

I did not say -- or act like I was saying -- "I don't watch these shows because I have better things to do with my time!"
But you're not watching this show, and you did say what *else* you were watching instead. Perhaps start a new thread about the more general TV shows of today then.

I don't think this series (the books or the show) kills off characters for shock value alone. I think it's just a lot more honest than a lot of stories: In real life, people die without doing the heroic things they might have aspired to. People sometimes die senselessly. People die unfairly. Martin (and the show's producers) run with this concept, and we know that nobody is safe in this world.

That's not mere shock value, though of course, as viewers and readers, we aren't used to it. We aren't used to seeing characters we see as heroes dying too early in the stories. So yes, it feels shocking.

But I wouldn't say it's done for shock value. It's a subtle difference, but it's a difference.

If you're watching this series, then by all means, post your views here. If not, I'd honestly recommend simply starting a new thread about the way TV shows do things for shock value.



The Adventure Starts Here!
Well, there is an interview out there with Kit Harington who says

WARNING: "Possible spoilers?" spoilers below
...he is not coming back. He also says he was told by the producers that this was it for his character. They also said separately that they filmed that scene in such a way that it should be obvious that he's really dead.

So, unless all those folks are just fibbing to each other and to us, it does look like that's it for Snow.

And that's probably why some of us book readers are a bit stunned -- we were left thinking Snow might or MIGHT NOT be dead. And so many online book theories are out there that put a lot of importance on Snow's character for the main story arc. Unsure what to think of all that now. Can't wait for Winds of Winter... but I do wonder how much the series will inform the book and vice-versa.



Worth pointing out...

WARNING: "Possible spoilers, book and show" spoilers below
...that it might be it for the actor and not the character. If he is resurrected in another body (warging into Ghost is a popular fan theory), for example



A system of cells interlinked
Excuse me, but how am I acting superior?

I came in here just to say that I'm tired of shows that do nothing but kill characters for shock value. If I did it here, it's because there wasn't anywhere else around to do so -- and this thread seemed fitting and it's what came to my mind. It has nothing to do with me trying to be superior. I simply wanted to comment about the TV shows of today.

I did not say -- or act like I was saying -- "I don't watch these shows because I have better things to do with my time!"
It's not for shock value - this death actually completely followed and made a ton of sense when the characters political moves are looked at over the past few seasons. That said, Martin has come under fire before for constantly killing of characters, but more so, for pretending to kill off characters for the very shock value you mention, only to bring them back again in a later chapter or book. So in regards to Martin's writing, I think you have a bit of a point here - that's a bit of an underhanded way to get shock value from your readers.

The show has avoided this for the most part. They have yet to kill a character for shock only to bring them back a bit later saying JUST KIDDING! I wonder if the show runners have specifically targeted this concept as something they wanted to remove, which is why we haven't seen....

WARNING: "GoT Book-like spoilers" spoilers below
Lady Stoneheart. Also in the books, he makes the reader think Brienne dies in a fight with Biter (now dead on the show), but she returns later with a facial scar. This one especially seemed like a cheap shot in the books.


Of course, the obvious thing would be a big smoke show from the crew and media, which I think might be what is going on. The actor cut his hair and people are making a big deal out of it, as if it is total confirmation that the actor is done and done.

But if this happens:

WARNING: "Speculative Spoilers for GoT" spoilers below
Melissandre casts the red priest resurrection on Jon Snow, which allows the show runners to merge Cold Hands and Stoneheart into one, using Jon Snow instead. With Mel arriving at Castle Black just before Jon's death, this makes sense.


Then this is all a big ruse to pull a big reveal in season 6.



Overall a great final episode for an otherwise mediocre season... I liked a lot in it, but not the final few minutes. I expected it somehow, but not like that. Oh, and yes the dude is most obviously dead. I think the episode quite clearly showed he was a 110% dead.

And by the way, holy crap that walk of shame was unpleasant!



That's not mere shock value, though of course, as viewers and readers, we aren't used to it. We aren't used to seeing characters we see as heroes dying too early in the stories. So yes, it feels shocking.
One would think that after season 1, GOT fans would be less shocked and come to expect it though.



Could've saved it for the Shoutbox.
Right. 'Cause Destiny, Rodent and Destiny's Tatty-whatever friend in the Shoutbox is the right audience for me to just spontaneously go, "I hate TV shows that kill off all of their characters!"

But you're not watching this show, and you did say what *else* you were watching instead. Perhaps start a new thread about the more general TV shows of today then.
I didn't want to. I do make a lot of threads here, but I wasn't looking to go deep into a discussion about this topic. I responded to something The Gunslinger45 said because it seemed relevant. If it's going to make you Games of Thrones fans cry, I'm sorry -- no disrespect -- but tough it out and move on! This thread is called "Game of Thrones, Season 5" not "Games of Thrones, Season 5 - Only Post in Here if You Have Something Positive to Say."

I don't think this series (the books or the show) kills off characters for shock value alone. I think it's just a lot more honest than a lot of stories: In real life, people die without doing the heroic things they might have aspired to. People sometimes die senselessly. People die unfairly. Martin (and the show's producers) run with this concept, and we know that nobody is safe in this world.

That's not mere shock value, though of course, as viewers and readers, we aren't used to it. We aren't used to seeing characters we see as heroes dying too early in the stories. So yes, it feels shocking.

But I wouldn't say it's done for shock value. It's a subtle difference, but it's a difference.

If you're watching this series, then by all means, post your views here. If not, I'd honestly recommend simply starting a new thread about the way TV shows do things for shock value.
Again, I don't want to make a new thread. Just wanted to say something! It's a forum. I'm here to chat. Don't wanna take away from Games of Thrones discussions. I just saw Gunslinger say something and it made me wanna comment. Feel free to defend Games of Thrones and explain why it isn't simply just killing off characters for shock value. I don't watch it. I came in here because I was curious about it. I only think it seems like they are always killing off characters on these types of shows. You could say I'm discussing Games of Thrones because of why I don't feel interested in watching it -- not because I'm feeling superior, but because I don't respect the fact that it seems like all these shows just kill off their characters for maybe shock value. It seems like a trend to me. A cliche. It bugs me. So I wanted to say that. But I don't want to make a thread about it or head over to the Shoutbox. It feels best here. Don't worry -- I'm not interested in talking about it further. You guys haven't been kind and receptive to my thoughts, so why should I? Bye bye.