Star Wars: Episode VIII – The Last Jedi

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NoGo. I wouldn't recommend you ever paying for this. If you must watch it out of curiosity
or just a completionist urge, I would recommend you to do one of the following:

• Wait until it becomes available on a streaming service with no extra cost,
• Pirate it,
• Sucker someone into paying for your ticket/rental.

But don't give them your money. I paid only $1,90 for my ticket, and I regret it.

I'm replying via mobile so I'm sure I've broken quotes or something.

Let me try this from another approach. Let's say that I intend to make a painting. My palette will be muted earth tones (orange, yellow, green, browns, and all neutralized or washed out with darker compliments to reduce each color's original intensity and vividness). As I paint, I may or may not have a direction but, as another poster aptly put it, my training in the craft gives me insight and has strengthened my intuition on balance and composition. Because of that, and even without having a clear path in mind, one brush mark more or less dictates another mark, after, either to compliment a color, create or intentionally disrupt a too obvious balance, or adjust the overall contrast of the painting as a whole. This process repeats until I discover a path or the process finds itself at a stopping point. Regardless, the process itself is self-refining, and as I step back moment to monent for perspective (walking away for a time for fresh eyes, turning the canvas 90-180 degrees to break my assumptions of space to find inconsistency that might not be evident from the original position, or a change in lighting), I will find oddities that stand out in contrast from the painting's balance overall.

Now, I make a rather large lime green mark in three random locations on the canvas. Why?

These marks are jolting, relative to the balance of the work prior. Yes, I can claim artistic freedom but given my effort demonstrated with the rest of the piece, that alone suggests these marks are arbitrary and breaking from the understood methodology already presented as standard. Knowing this, and not wanting a random reaction from my audience, I will choose to refine those disturbing marks until they better communicate with the other marks around them.

Yes, that jarring effect could have been my intention. But if so, then my style of painting would have been different in creating a base standard where such an intentional shift would have been more apparent. If not in my immediate piece, then in my body if work having already established my approach and process.

In the movie Mr. Turner, there is a scene in which he and other artists are presenting a gallery show. I can't remember why (it might have been to mock a fellow artist), but Turner decides in the moment to create a single red mark into his abstracted ocean scene. Those around him were immediately offended, but he further refined the mark to reduce its obvious contrast again the overall painting until the mark was resolved. It became a bouy for the scene. My point there is that the mark, though originally seeming arbitrary, was made to live in the world he created, in context of the marks and style and color around it.

That's somewhat different to a de Kooning piece, where all marks are from the start visually chaotic. Still though, rules are set and followed. Additionally though his style is very dynamic, it still follows the same process of mark making dictating the next mark to balance or counter-balance the piece as a whole.

Back to The Last Jedi.
It is not any individual scene that I am focussing on except to 1) create list of points to reference as evidence, and 2) to speak to which ever scene was chosen to discuss.

I believe there is a subtle mistake here in rationalizing each faulted scene (as I see them at least) case by case. That is why I can easily agree with you on your interpretation and projected intent of Luke's milk (btw, if Got Luke's Milk doesn't become a T-shirt, something is terribly wrong with the world ;P). My issue isn't just the scene, but that scene along with many others not matching the implied conceptual contrast established within this movie and by extension the series as a whole. Also, just as a piece of work.

This movie, to me, has several lime green marks throughout. None of which seem to have been internally critiqued to measure how one scene blends in sequence, how a sequence blends with the movie, or how the movie blends with the series.

A WONDERFUL example of this concept in play and working was with the use of audio and muted color saturation during the last jump to lightspeed. These few seconds were simply gorgeous. Another beautiful shot was the opening approach on the retreating rebel transport ships trailing from the planet's surface. Just perfect, compositionally. Those scenes, and others like them, imply a higher sense of artistic awareness that successfully spike from the movie's average. Scenes as mention by myself and others spike negatively to the average in context what the artist(s) define as standard through the creative processes explained earlier in my pathetic attempt at an essay.

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Again, I have to say that it depresses me slightly to be giving this much analysis to a Star Wars movie

Thanks is for the conversation though.

That wasn't just sequel baiting, though. That was an important plot point that two of the subplots in this movie hinged upon, leaving it unexplained creates a plot hole.

Of course it was important: there'd be no point in posing a question or a mystery that was unimportant. Unimportant questions generate no curiosity, and thus there is no value to resolving them later.

A "plot hole" is supposed to be something logically inconsistent with the story. It's not a plot hole when a character makes a mistake, or something isn't explained right away, or something isn't described in detail when we can easily fill in the blanks ourselves, et cetera.

Sorry to jump into this convo!! But point to point, I believe this might be a bad example to use against his lightsoeed tracking comment.

Yoda's comment was alluding to a future story arc by planting the seed early on. It had no real affect on the story at hand as the story was already established and heading in its own direction.

Here, a great portion of TLJ was predicated on this one pivotal issue of rebel ships being tracked. That one element created conflict between Po and Lady Purple Hair (can't remember her name ugh!), created a side story for Fin, forced tension of pursuit, and created risk of Rey returning to Layer's beacon only to be captured or killed. All major plot motions were rooted in this tracking plot device. Unless I'm missing something I think they're night and day.

Not that I'm arguing FOR clarification on how they tracked. I only wanted to comment on this comment

Also. The use of Layer is intentional.

I dunno, I think the fact that there's a whole different potential savior, after building Luke up as the heir to the whole thing, is a pretty huge deal. And we can always swap in some other example of some other burning question held open, anyway. The specific comparison is mostly beside the point, which is that positing a mystery and revealing it later is a normal creative decision, and not a plot hole unless done unintentionally or with no plans to resolve it later.

The value of a term like "plot hole" is that it's supposed to refer to something objective. If it's used as just another way to say "creative decision I don't like," then it's useless.

Yoda, don't bother; you're helpless. He's a WRITER, so he knows what he's talking about... so you're wrong here.

Didn't accuse you of saying that they couldn't.

Pardon me Sir, If I'm "assuming things" again. But that seems like an under-the-rug way of saying: "Yeah, I'm writing my opinion as if it were fact"... which is essentially what you're doing here.

So, because they didn’t flat out state to the audience why he left, that’s automatically another “plot-hole” (in your mind), thus resulting in some “broken” destruction of the character. For a writer, you sure don't know any level of subtly. Viewers can make the reasonable leap in their mind why he did what he did. Leia was the most important person in his life, and failing Ben (resulting in essentially the next Darth Vader) shortly before the formation of the First Order, leaving his Sister emotionally devastated; would not result in any exile? It’s not like that would leave him an emotional trainwreck/shut-in or anything. It was f**king GUILT, It’s not so hard to see that. “But he still wouldn’t do that! It’s not in his character! BECAUSE THE FIRST ORDER AND HE NEEDS 2 STOP IT!” There's bigger things at play here.

Nope, It’s not an assumption on my part. You just proved my point.

But again, what do I know about Luke Skywalker? You’re a f**king writer dude!

Speaking of assumptions, I never said you were a "butthurt fanboy." That's also your interpretation If you believe I "implied that." While I do think it's great and far above exceptional, It's not 'fantastic.' That's a strong word. "Fantastic" would something like 'The Empire Strikes Back', or maybe even 'Star Wars.' And I never asked for you to care. What a random statement.

Most definitely Go. When a film is as this polarising as this one, the best thing you can do is see it for yourself.

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Leaving aside the possibility of "retreat in our moment of triumph?" overconfidence common to Star Wars villains, why should we assume that the Order's fuel technology is automatically any better than that of the Resistance's (and that's without factoring in the disparity in sizes between their ships that would affect their movement anyway)? The Resistance's smaller transports can outrun the Order's larger destroyers as long as they've got the fuel, hence why they establish a time limit until the fuel runs out. I'm not sure what your idea of "interesting" action is, but dogfights bookend the film and there's still chases and fights throughout the middle anyway.

You know, I'll concede this, if only because I don't care about the porgs either way.

Tarkin isn't that shrewd or calculating in the first place, especially when he ultimately lets his overconfidence get the better of him (referring back to "retreat in our moment of triumph?" as an example). Much like Kylo tries way too hard to replicate Vader and doesn't quite succeed, the same can be said of Hux replicating Tarkin only to be undermined constantly. As for fearing him or laughing at him, can't it be both? The guy who gets joked at in the first five minutes of the movie still doesn't let that stop him from posing a constant threat throughout the film. I took it to mean that we can laugh at how ridiculous guys like Hux are but that doesn't necessarily mean that they can never be taken seriously.

Everything in Star Wars is made up.

Besides, as I recall it is ultimately revealed that there was only one tracking device (located on Snoke's ship, hence why they had to find a hacker in Canto Bight in the first place) and it was tracking the Resistance's main ship and nothing else, so between DJ hacking it and Admiral Holdo tearing the ship apart with a hyperdrive jump using the ship being tracked, it seems like it will end up being a one-time thing at this rate (especially since reusing it would prompt certain fans to complain about shameless recycling anyway so what can you do).

My only real gripe with that bit is that the way it was shot made me think that they'd had to come up with it after Carrie Fisher had died (such as the out-of-focus closeups/middle-shots and the fact that she then spent the next hour of the movie in a coma so I was like "okay that's it for Leia I guess"). Besides, Leia was revealed to be Force-sensitive in Empire (being able to receive Luke's distress calls) so it's more the suddenness of her being able to actually use physical Force powers like levitation that's bothersome. In any case, are we sure that using the Force can't actually keep someone alive in space?

That's a good point, though it does make me question whether he was ever put in a position to be helpful through Last Jedi - he defaults to serving Leia/Holdo, the former of which spends much of the film incapacitated and the latter is treated as a potential antagonist by Poe.

Yeah, you're definitely going to have to work on that because I could make a case for her being necessary for this film to work (and definitely not helped by being replaced by Poe - his journey throughout the film is about deconstructing heroism while her journey is about reconstructing it).

It can't be both too ordinary and too "Star Wars pastiche" (and it's certainly not as blatant about copying the Mos Eisley Cantina as Maz Kanata's bar in Force Awakens). The ordinariness does work in its favour since it's definitely more concerned about picking apart its textual meaning about war profiteers and whatnot, which is fine by me. There's not much point in having visual creativity in this franchise without having the meaning to back it up.

As for the "emotional shrapnel", they already referenced it in this one: Poe's attempts to be the hero and defy Leia/Holdo end up causing serious damage to the Resistance, forcing him to come to terms with how much he's responsible for doing. It's certainly enough to make Finn want to kamikaze run an Order cannon in a futile attempt at redemption.

I've been over this in other posts, but once again: he's not important and neither is his backstory. It's not like Force Awakens hinted at him being anything more than a generic evil overlord anyway so his death doesn't ruin what was already built up. The Voldemort analogy is bad because he's talked about at length (and sort of encountered at least twice) in the first three books before showing up in the fourth, whereas Snoke...he's just there. He's only important through his connection to Kylo, not as a character in his own right, so his death is only as important as its meaning for Kylo.

Hmm, you might be on to something here. I said in another thread that she works best as a foil/villain for Finn to fight while Rey faces off against Ren, so it's a little anticlimactic for that thread to be dropped so soon (though it does mean clearing the field a bit for Episode IX's conclusion).

As noted above, I don't get why we were ever supposed to think that Snoke was that important. That being said, the Knights of Ren will probably end up figuring into Episode IX following Kylo's coup so I'm fine with them not showing up here.

In keeping with the established notion that rebelling "isn't about destroying what we hate but saving what we love" and Luke's whole arc, it makes sense that he'd end up emulating Obi-Wan by providing a diversion for the remaining Resistance members to get away.

How much of that was really true in Force Awakens? A key part of his characterisation was that his "volatility" was from being frustrated over not being able to live up to Darth Vader (which Rey even called him out for during his interrogation of her and which ultimately undermined his abilities). Him killing Snoke was meant to be about stepping out of his shadow (Snoke still treated him like a child, after all), so it's more about asserting himself as his own person and possibly becoming more dangerous in the process.

I already explained how the "track through hyperspace" thing was effectively resolved, you yourself floated the possibility of Luke returning as a ghost, and that Rey is still about as close to being a Jedi as Luke was at the end of Empire anyway.

Which again begs the question as to how much he needs to be explained or referenced within the context of this film - I'm surprised you didn't mention the possibility of him being one of the unnamed allies that Leia alluded to (so hey, maybe he'll show up in Episode IX at this rate).

Keep telling yourself that. He's just the latest person to disagree with me.

One of my rambling posts is coming up now.

I didn't see this until Christmas Day and I haven't had a chance to really be online since then until now. I did, however, see that people were complaining about the film before it came out. I didn't read much of the complaints as I really did NOT want anything spoiled for me. And something that I have realized (I realized it with The Force Awakens) is that when people hate something like, for example, a Star Wars movie, then they LOVE to spoil it for others who haven't seen it yet because they just want to go out and complain immediately. Hate it if you want to, but why spoil it for other people who haven't seen it yet?

I can see really hating something (I definitely have a long list of things), but why would I hate it so much that I hope it fails? What purpose would this film's failure serve me in life? Why would I care so much if someone else likes it? I don't think it is childish to hate something, but I certainly think it is childish the way I have seen some people react to this movie. It is just a movie for God's sake!!! That is such a joke! With all of the horrible stuff that I have gone through the past 10 years, and in particular the past 3 months (I know some of you reading this know what I am referring to), if a mediocre Star Wars film - hell, even a BAD one - is the worst thing that could happen in my life, then bring more of them! I couldn't care less! Was I upset when Han Solo died? Damn right I was. Did I get over it? I would be insane if I didn't. Han Solo is not reality and life goes on. Nothing in a fictional world is that important for people to get so upset over it just because it didn't go the way they wanted it to. It is silly. My opinion, of course, but that is how I feel about all of the drama related to the movie.

Believe it or not, there are worse things that can happen in life than Luke not being the person you thought he was and his getting killed off in the series (which I figured was going to happen but I said 2 years ago that it wouldn't happen until the final film). Of course, though, Luke is never really gone. So his death is no big deal there for me.

I also don't really understand the "plot hole" issues that people have. A guy I work with was saying that he didn't get a couple of questions answered in TLJ that were from TFA (but I am talking about plot holes in both films), and I told him that since the next one will be THE final film I think all questions will be answered and all things will be finalized at that time. So I have no problem with so-called plot holes as long as I know there is still the chance that they will be answered. If we never get an answer on any of it, OK. Call them whatever you want then. But until these films are done, I like the "mystery" that is there with the “plot holes”.

Anyway, the film itself. I think I will talk about the negatives first. I do have a few. Not that they are big negatives, but they are the things that I wasn't as fond of in the film:
1. I wasn't interested in Holdo at all. And, truth be told, did it really have to be a "name" that portrayed her? I am a little baffled as to why they used Laura Dern. That role could've been portrayed by anyone. Other than her "big" moment in it, I didn't have any interest in that character.
2. Speaking of characters that I had NO interest in, I had NO interest in Rose. I hated EVERYTHING about her. And I was elated to see her killed off. And then they had to make it seem like they could save her. Damn!!! She was so boring and the pairing of Rose and Finn was bad. I thought so, at least, and I think it really hurt Finn's character.
3. I loved Finn in the TFA. I LOVED HIM! They really missed an opportunity with developing his character more. That was because they had that annoying Rose as his companion. I guess they did enough with him (I do love what he does towards the end of the film. A lot). But why does she have to tag along? Truth be told, I would've rather have seen him go off alone on his adventure with BB-8. I think that could've been pretty good.
4. I think they should've killed Leia off. I understand that they most likely didn't because they wouldn't have been able to have the Luke-Leia reunion, but whether or not Carrie Fisher had died in real life, I still think Leia should've been killed off. Now that Carrie Fisher is actually dead it would've been better in that sense (what could they possibly do now with the character but most likely have her die, anyway), but the way Leia would've died was so unexpected that I, personally, think that would've been a very good thing to have had that in the film. The way that portion played out was something that I liked. I didn't expect it. And that could've been it. I didn't care for the fact that she survived. I think that ruined that part of the film, and a little bit of the rest of it, actually. Just the idea that Kylo was going to kill her, then he couldn't, but then it happened, anyway. That was such a great moment to me. And it would've been greater had she died. It was a surprise and that would’ve made the impact of it stronger had she not survived.
5. The ending. Well, not the ending specifically. But on the way to the ending. The ending itself, with the boy, I liked. I did. We all know that is going to lead to something else. But, ignoring the boy completely, I would've liked the film to have just ended with Luke's death somehow. I have to watch the film again to get really specific on what I would've wanted (there were details that I would've omitted, but I can't really remember them at the moment - I just remember I didn't want them there). As I was watching the movie, I was really enjoying it. I was. I was enjoying it to the point of thinking that I may just like it better than TFA. And that was until that chunk of film in between Luke’s death and the actual ending. Although, I liked Rey coming back and rescuing them, but I just think it should’ve ended at some point before I thought “I wish it would’ve ended here” or “Why didn’t they end it there”. Again, let me see the film a second time so I can nit-pick this issue a little bit better. Honestly, maybe after seeing it a second time, I won't have these issues again. Who knows?
6. Maybe it is my imagination, but was there a hint at the possibility that Poe and Rey could become a "thing" in the future? I hope not! For one thing, I didn't NEED it to be a part of the story, but I really liked the idea of Rey and Finn being something. I also would've been OK if they weren't anything more than just friends. Just as a non-romantic pair, I enjoy them together. No, instead we have to have Rose and give her to Finn. Why?? Please don't pair anyone together just so there is some sort of romance going on, and I really don't like the idea of Poe and Rey being together. They don’t fit at all. That seems like it would be a forced romance (whereas I didn’t think it would’ve come across that way had it been a Rey/Finn relationship). It would almost seem like they feel there HAS to be a romance, and why not throw those two “heroes” together!
7. You want to know what I really hated? I really did hate it. The slow motion stuff. I hate that crap in any movie. And to do it in a SW film cheapened it for me. That was a disappointment. I always hold SW at higher level than other films because they seem unique in their storytelling and the way that they are made. And then they had to go and put generic slow motion nonsense in the film. Ridiculous. I wish that technique (and the POV of a bullet) would just go away.


And with that, I will go on about what I liked:
1. I liked that Luke's character changed. He, naturally, was no longer going to be this optimistic kid anymore. As a person, he would change as he got older, and I had no problem with him becoming a bitter old man who felt he was a failure at something in life. No problem with it at all. We’re treating this character as if he were real. Well, considering various circumstances in real life, real people change, too. So that is no big deal at all.
2. Phasma is GONE!!! Thank you! I thought she was a boring character in TFA and even more boring now. I don’t have to see her ever again!!
3. Finn. I know I just mentioned how I didn’t like that they didn’t work with his character like they should’ve, but I still liked him. The more I watch TFA, the more I enjoy the movie (and I really enjoyed it the first time I saw it). And the more I see Finn, the more he becomes one of my top characters in the series. Again, I loved his moment towards the end of the film. Would’ve loved it more had things gone differently for Rose.
4. Poe. I didn’t get much with him either. I would’ve liked more, but from what I was given, he is probably still one of my favorites as well. I was hoping for more of a Poe/Finn thing going on in this film. I was disappointed that there wasn’t something, but there is always Episode 9. Oh, that’s right. There probably won’t be anything because Finn is with Rose.
5. Kylo Ren. I liked his character in TFA. He was maybe the one I liked second best. Again, the more I watch TFA, the more I like him, as I do Finn. I said that when I saw TFA that I could see him becoming an excellent villain in the end. And I can still see it. The way things are playing out for him could really help this character turn into someone great – as in evil great. Things just never seem to work out as he would like them to. So I would like all of his anger towards his various upsets in life to help him in the dark side. I am pulling for a great villain. And I am one of those people that quite enjoyed what he did with Snoke. And Adam Diver is pretty damn impressive (in my opinion) as Kylo. He is a conflicted villain (I like seeing that for a change), and he portrays that sort of character so well. The Ben Solo side creeps back into his mind every now and then until Kylo takes over again. I enjoy watching that happen. And the conflict is something else that I think could help make him one of the best villains ever. I just really hope they do something great with this character in the end.
6. Reylo. Yes, that is a “real” thing in case you never heard about it. You see, when I watched TFA a second time, I started to think “Does Kylo have a thing for Rey?”. And when I watched it again recently, I definitely thought they were hinting at that possibility. And the funny part, to me, is that I was looking at something online (before TLJ came out) and I discovered this thing call “Reylo”. And I thought “Well, then. I am not the only one that sees it”. And I am not going to lie here. That romance side of me was quite loving what they were doing with these two characters in TLJ. But romance aside, I just absolutely LOVED the connection, in general, that these two had with each other. I loved the way their Force-bond was portrayed. I thought that was a brilliant move right there (and I loved the whole aspect of the throne room scene - probably my favorite part of the movie). Yes, Snoke played a part and blah, blah, blah. But I would love to think that there will be at least 1-2 more of these moments in Episode 9 because that was something that felt very unique for these two characters and I loved them having this way to connect to one another. Now, the romance part of it. I am 100% convinced that Kylo has an interest in her beyond just the Force. I think his attraction to her has a lot to do with the Force, too, though, because they have this “bond” through that, but I also do think they are two lonely people. And they can sympathize, in a way, with each other. The shame of the whole thing is, though, that I think she is attracted to him, too, but ONLY as Ben Solo. Not Kylo Ren. And that is completely understandable to me, but, for me, the shame is that Ben just can’t make himself remain Ben. That Kylo side just keeps taking control of him. So, yeah, she literally “closed the door” on him in TLJ, but I really wonder if that will be it. After all, this is like some sort of Force soulmate thing going on. Again, yes, Snoke was manipulating things, but I think that just got things started for them. Well, for Kylo, at least. And I am also not saying that if they are soulmates that they will get together romantically at any point. It is possible for people to be soulmates with NO romantic connection whatsoever. That idea is very appealing to me, too. For some reason I really like the idea of these two having this connection no matter what way it will be portrayed (hoping they keep it up in the final film).
But I do have to say, and I know I am probably alone with this, that I think the moment when their fingertips touched was one of the sexiest moments ever in a film (even if it wasn’t meant to be that way). I smiled to myself when I saw it. I just want to say that.

Now, overall, I did really like the film. I probably won’t watch it again until it is released on DVD. I would much rather watch it in the privacy of my own home where I can be really comfortable and focus completely on it. So, for right now, I would give it a .
As for where I would currently rank it (and after having just rewatched all of the films again before I went to see it):
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. The Force Awakens
5. A New Hope
6. The Last Jedi
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Rogue One
9. Attack of the Clones

Basically the list is the same since I last posted it but Rogue One and The Last Jedi have been added now. And I don’t really remember, but I may have switched my placements of ANH and TFA.

And just a few more things that I want to say. I am going to assume that The Knights of Ren will be addressed in the final film. I am assuming it so much that I am really looking forward to it. So I am really hoping I am not wrong with that. I am also really hoping Kylo doesn’t die off in the final film. I have ended up liking his character so much that I am really hoping that isn’t his fate. If he does, I hope it is some sort of light side sacrifice kind of thing, but to be honest, I like Rey a lot, and I would kind of like it if he would turn back to the light side and, despite that happening, that would somehow make Rey the one that doesn’t survive (if someone dying is necessary for whatever reason). Why these things are happening, I haven’t decided yet. I haven’t written that much of the story in my mind yet. But this is how I want them to be. I’ll be honest. After having watched TFA a few times now, and seeing TLJ, I don’t believe Kylo is as far gone as what I think a lot of other people will think. Even having killed his father, there is a moment, briefly, where it almost seems as if he has a quick reaction with the realization of what he had just done. It is very subtle but it is there. And I think not all of what was happening between Kylo and Rey was being manipulated. And if it was, I think Kylo was aware enough of how he was feeling and I think he was really not all that bad in those scenes with her. I think he was sincerely not always thinking on the side of the dark side with her. Also, I don’t know if I buy the whole thing about Rey’s parents really being nothing special. It could be true. Very easily. But I wondered as soon as Kylo said something about it if either he was lying to her to, for lack of a better word, “charm” her into ruling alongside him by saying that they were nothing but she is not nothing to him. Or, perhaps, Snoke played a part in manipulating that so that Kylo wouldn’t know who she may be descended from. Or else she really is from nobody in particular. Either way, I wouldn’t mind seeing that addressed again in the last film. I would like Rose to meet a terrible fate, though. Just get rid of her already. Why was my time wasted watching her? I don’t get it. Also, I am still holding out hope that Lando will be making an appearance. I find it hard to believe that it won’t happen. But I think they know that there is a large part of the fan base that would LOVE to see Lando back, if only briefly, in the last film. I think there might be a good way for them to bring him back somehow through however they make Leia non-existent in the story.

Anyway, I had my bits of disappointment with the film (no movie is perfect), but overall, I did enjoy the movie and I am looking forward to watching it again. Not only that, I would like a definite idea of where I want to rank it. Until then, it will remain #6 on my list.

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That's beautiful vamp. Yes, I will never understand the malicious need to spoil. So infantile. To the rest of your post on that (I still havent seen it so didnt read your bullet points)

I think you are giving Lucasfilm too much credit in assuming they've planned ahead. I really think they are just winging it with no grand overall plan for the story.

With the turbulent Han Solo mess going on I suspect they are spending all their time trying to sort that out and Ep 8 has suffered and 9 will too because of it.

It cant be easy trying to get 1 film out every year.

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Am I the only one who would like too see Qui Gon Jinn Get A Movie where he gets young ObI Wan and there is some Pretty cool adventure and we even get a good much younger Dooku. Dont know who should play they characters but Qui Gon is a character I love and he did learn the force Ghost secret and had to teach it to Yoda of all Masters.

Well If Think About its names Like Han Solo, Obi Wan Kenobi and Boba Fett seem very much good safe films after Rogue One. I dont think Episode 8 was planned to fail its just people had so much fan theories they demanded Rey Must be a Skywalker and Luke Has to have a great Light Saber fight and Snoke is fallen Sith or something. Star Wars fans were just stunned that someone gave them a movie where they said none of your theories are right but is it possible episode 8 could be the biggest misdirect film and Episode 9 was to Answer what questions were asked and we will see Luke at his best passing on what he learned which was yodas dying message for Jedi to continue. I think Han Solo will be an Ok movie the really good film will be Obi Wan movie, Episode 9 and Rian Johnsons Trilogy.

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The Last Jedi is all about 'balance' so I'll try to make this a balanced review...

I didn't like it. But then again, I didn't hate it either. Every time something happened that annoyed me, something else happened that made me think, "actually, that was pretty cool..." It was at times tedious and felt much longer than 2 and a half hours. But it had its moments. Not many of them, but it did have them.

I do understand why people are raging and giving it 1 star reviews. Because the good things don't necessarily make up for the bad things. Because when you feel like your favourite franchise has been stomped all over, you don't always want to sit back and think, 'well the sound was good, I'll add on another half a star...' and when you are unhappy with the character direction, it's hard to give the movie credit for including them in the first place.

The space battles look and sound good, to begin with. I’m not sure all the human action is quite so well choreographed.

I wasn't really bothered by plot holes - I don't care whether bombs can fall in space or whether rebel ships running out of fuel is a thing or even whether Rey should be able to move rocks without the requisite hours of training. It wasn't the plot that bothered me so much as the storytelling. There were a lot of events that felt like they were just there to make characters do things, coincidences, conveniences - and sure, there probably were in the original trilogy but it just felt less plausible here. Things happened because it was written that things should happen, rather than coming organically from decisions and actions the characters would take. All too often, things happened for the sake of a cheap 'gotcha' twist. No, you couldn't see it coming, but that doesn't necessarily make it good writing. I feel like it deserves some credit for not being completely predictable, but I'm really not sure how well it would hold up on a second viewing if unpredictability is all it has going for it.

The slow motion space chase (leading to a conveniently close conveniently abandoned yet fortified rebel base planet) isn’t super exciting and Finn and Rose’s side-quest is under-developed. It tries to tackle too many things - animal cruelty, the First Order being cruel to mining communities, child labour, the evil rich - while balancing them with goofy humour, goofy animals and way too much coincidence. It was the most Phantom Menace part of it. In raising any political questions about the galaxy like this it actually leaves us with far more questions - notably how in the galaxy did we get from the peaceful republic established after the downfall of the Empire to the current state of affairs in which The First Order rule the entire galaxy propped up by arms dealers and the resistance is down to about nine people? Also, why hasn’t technology moved on all that much in the intervening time? And why are so many aliens wearing tuxedos? But I digress…

Character development was sadly lacking. It doesn't help matters that Rey and Luke are separated from the rest of the characters for almost the whole film - and with very little to do for a lot of that. I'm glad it wasn't a rehash of Yoda training Luke but it just seemed unfocused. Sure, Luke’s character was different but without actually seeing a change that’s not really character development, that’s just having a completely different character that is partially but not really satisfactorily explained through backstory. And milking alien creatures, drinking the milk and winking was just bizarre, possibly the worst moment in the film. Chewbacca has so little to do I forgot he was there. Leia's story arc makes little sense. I won't dwell on the flying, it was weird but not necessarily a movie-ruiner. I'd have preferred to see Finn and Poe off on the side quest rather than another brand new character. I liked Rose OK, but there wasn't enough chemistry between her and Finn and I don't feel like her actions towards the end (trying to avoid spoilers) really made sense for the overall plot. I like Poe more, and we get quite a lot of him in this, so that's good I suppose.

I haven’t spent the intervening time since The Force Awakens concocting elaborate theories about Rey’s parentage and who Snoke is etc. etc., but I do think there were questions raised in The Force Awakens that haven’t adequately been answered here - especially about Snoke. I don’t mind who Rey’s parents were, but even that feels like it was set up in TFA only to be thrown away here, like Luke’s lightsaber in his first scene with Rey. It makes me honestly wonder whether there is any kind of overarching plan for this trilogy or whether each writer/director is just making it up as he goes along, a sort of big-budget game of consequences.

I wasn’t convinced by the outcome of the whole Kylo Ren/Rey dynamic. I didn’t like the weird talking across the galaxy thing and then just when it looked like it was going to go in a different direction it just didn’t, really. I sort of like Hux, but he gets a bit of a raw deal here as the butt of all the jokes.

Speaking of jokes, it’s not that there were too many but that they came at the wrong time, the tone was misjudged. I’ve seen a lot of complaints about ‘Marvel style humour’. Now I like Marvel style humour, but that early scene in which Poe Dameron prank-calls Hux looked more like it came from Lego Star Wars than anything else. It was an off-putting jar in tone right from the start. I don’t think humour itself is a problem, it was the tone of the humour. It wasn’t fun. More often than not it seemed to be laughing at the audience, at the fans, and I think that’s what really gets some people’s backs up about this film - that it genuinely does seem to be deliberately spitting in the face of the Star Wars mythos. And that is the real worst part of it for me, that it does seem to set out to tear it down. Instead of allowing the new characters, the new story, to develop and outgrow the old, it wants to turn on them like Kylo Ren killing his father, destroy the old.

It’s all about balance - but the balance the original trilogy got right between fantasy and plausibility, cynicism and heroism, past and future, epic seriousness and fun, light and dark seems to be lost in this installment.

I talked to my sister today and she gave me the spoilercast. When it arrives at the second-run cinema, I will definitely go see this. Kinda makes me a little sad that Luke's story is playing out like that and the Snoke deal seems really unsatisfying.