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Russell's team was stacked...you could even call it Cousy's team but Mikan team was really just him I don't think any of the top 10 from that era played with him during his run.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985%E...o_Bulls_season

Jordan didn't really that weak of a team...his second season he got Oakley and Paxson and they signed George Gervin

The 1987 lineup could have been
SG - Jordan
PG - Paxson
SF - Pippen
PF - Oakley (Horace Grant)

Center - Bill Walton was a free agent Moses Malone was on the trading block

compare Jordan's Bull's lineup with Lebron's Cleveland lineup(first run) it's night and day.
This is all so ridiculous that I don't know where to start.

I guess we'll start with George Mikan who none of us should be talking about because we didn't see him play. If he traveled in a time machine to the present, do you know which players would be better than him? Everybody. He was known as the freak because he was the first big man. They had to bring in the goaltending rule because he was catching the other team's shots. I wonder why he dominated lol. They changed other rules as well because of this new found height being introduced to the league, although he never played when there was a 3 point shot. One of his records is being the player who scored the highest percentage of his team's points in a single game when he scored 15 in a 19-18 loss. So forget about comparing him to players today because it was a different sport. He did play with multiple hall of famers fwiw. You can't even compare the dynastys either. There were less teams and no free agency. When you had the best team, it was much easier to keep it going. Russell's Celtics were similar there, although the competition was much better. I bet you're the kind of guy who raves about Otto Graham when you have these discussions about football, but none of us have any business going back that far.

The Bull's stuff is equally ridiculous. First of all, know that I watched every single Bulls game during Jordan's career. That's every single one, and as they happened. Yes they had George Gervin the last year of his career, when he was essentially Jamal Crawford, but that was also the year Jordan missed most of the season with a broken foot so it's not even worth mentioning. John Paxson???? Everyone loved Paxson including me, but he was an 8th or 9th man, if that, on the average championship contender. He was not a playmaker, scorer, rebounder, or defender. He hit open jumpers-that's it, never an all star, never close, and not a starting level player. By comparison, the Celtic's worst starter was Danny Ainge, who was twice the player Paxson was.

Charles Oakley of course was a rookie that year, and he was a very good rebounder, nothing more. The Bulls thought so highly of him, they traded him away for one of the biggest stiffs I've ever seen play, Bill Cartwright. Oakley's claim to fame is toughness and longevity. He didn't win anything as far as I can recall, and if he made the all star game at all, it was minimal. He was an average player.

Pippen came into the league as a baby and his reputation during his first couple of years was being a soft player. It wasn't until he became a man that the Bulls started winning. As terrific a player as he was, his greatness has become greatly exaggerated as time as passed. He played 17 seasons, won 6 championships, and was an all star 7 times. Think about that.

I remember these early teams very well and can still see center Dave Corzine trying to finish off a feed from MJ. You've got to be kidding. And no clue why you're bringing up Moses or Walton.









Y'know the game was different but new players also had advantages that older players didn't have. When you watch highlights from Mikan notice how many times he got fouled...see how he's not dunking because that wasn't acceptable. The guy was 6'10 tough as nails and had a soft touch he would have been a goat in any era.









Y'know the game was different but new players also had advantages that older players didn't have. When you watch highlights from Mikan notice how many times he got fouled...see how he's not dunking because that wasn't acceptable. The guy was 6'10 tough as nails and had a soft touch he would have been a goat in any era.
If I post highlights of Guerschon Yabusele he will look like the second coming of Charles Barkley. Forget it, none of us have any business talking about George Mikan.



Yeah If I was a Jordan fanboy I wouldn't want to talk about George Mikan either
Well, I didn't watch one single game of his with the Wizards. But it's not about that, people should talk about what they've actually seen.



Well, I didn't watch one single game of his with the Wizards. But it's not about that, people should talk about what they've actually seen.

Well pretty sure everyone that saw Wilt score 100 points is dead now so I guess it doesn't count.


I've watched sports long enough to know games change and the greats adapt with the times. Greatness is how you distinguish yourself from your contemporaries.


If you watch the highlights you'll see a guy with a modern NBA players build shooting very well.



“Sugar is the most important thing in my life…”
The advancement of players physicality and medical treatment are gonna keep turning these lists over and make them current player top heavy.


The past is great, but I'm not beholden to some "baseball-like" reverence for it just because that's the thing to do.


A favorite sports guy of mine has often said, "if Eddie House played 50 years ago, there would be statues of him everywhere."





Well pretty sure everyone that saw Wilt score 100 points is dead now so I guess it doesn't count.
It counts, but we can't judge it or comment on it if we haven't seen it.

I've watched sports long enough to know games change and the greats adapt with the times. Greatness is how you distinguish yourself from your contemporaries.
Right, so let's compare against contemporaries rather than players/teams who are not.

If you watch the highlights you'll see a guy with a modern NBA players build shooting very well.
Highlights will tell you jack. Look at highlights from any G league or college player and they will look great. That's why they're called highlights.



The advancement of players physicality and medical treatment are gonna keep turning these lists over and make them current player top heavy.


The past is great, but I'm not beholden to some "baseball-like" reverence for it just because that's the thing to do.


A favorite sports guy of mine has often said, "if Eddie House played 50 years ago, there would be statues of him everywhere."



I'd argue the game has gotten significantly less physical over the year. Some players are before their time others are of their time.



If little Jimmy Harden tried to flop against Bill Russell he would likely be picking his teeth out of his beard. Bill Lambeer and AC Green would likely be looked at for his advanced stats and in the Hall of Fame if they played today.



I'd argue the game has gotten significantly less physical over the year. Some players are before their time others are of their time.



If little Jimmy Harden tried to flop against Bill Russell he would likely be picking his teeth out of his beard. Bill Lambeer and AC Green would likely be looked at for his advanced stats and in the Hall of Fame if they played today.
This is true and on the other hand the skill level of these current players is incredible. I would like to see the physicality come back and see the combination. That would be awesome.



“Sugar is the most important thing in my life…”
Harden would be fine. He is big for his size, incredible handle and doesn't miss games.


That's the only nice things you will hear me say about him 😯



Harden would be fine. He is big for his size, incredible handle and doesn't miss games.


That's the only nice things you will hear me say about him 😯
I don't like watching him play but I think that's more a reflection of the soft rules and the way the team runs their offense. He's an incredible player though



matt72582's Avatar
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I don't like watching him play, and so I don't... All that flopping, dribbling... The game has lost its toughness and art. Chucking 3's all night long is boring.



“Sugar is the most important thing in my life…”
Did I mention that I had a Hornets shirt for every day of the week in eighth grade? 🤓



I don't like watching him play, and so I don't... All that flopping, dribbling... The game has lost its toughness and art. Chucking 3's all night long is boring.
I don't mind the threes, but I can't stand that you can't even touch the guy. The rule they made about not being able to get into their landing space has really helped the shooter.



I don't like watching him play, and so I don't... All that flopping, dribbling... The game has lost its toughness and art. Chucking 3's all night long is boring.
I get that. Harden is tough to watch. I think he is the worst of what the NBA has become. 3s and free throws. He is a great player but he barely has any moves. It's just 3s and flinging his arms to get to the free throw line 20 times a game. He would get into so many fights playing pick up at parks lol.

Curry on the other hand is a pleasure to watch. He is truly skilled. He scored 50 once with 1 free throw. That's beautiful to watch.

Here is my thing though. Basketball is a game of pace. That's all a coach's job is to do. Control pace and handle substitutions/matchups. If a truly dominate center came back into the league and a coach slowed the game down to a crawl and fed him the ball 40-50 times a game on the block it would still work. Especially with all the small ball lineups. That's why Philly is frustrating to me. Trade Simmons away for a guard that can shoot. Slow the pace the hell down and feed Embiid on the block like it's going out of style. Promise they would be contenders tomorrow. You are aren't going beat Giannis and Curry and LeBron playing in the 120s. That's why Toronto beat the Bucks last year, after the first two games every game was basically in the 90s. Get the game in the 90s low 100s.

Oh well. What do I know.
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matt72582's Avatar
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It's too bad guys are out for whatever reasons, and not having fans and home-court is a big difference. It doesn't seem like the playoffs, at least not yet, anyway.

I just wish guys would stop passing up open layups for 3s.. It's boring, along with the flopping.