6th HOF-Late Spring

So I watched my first Ozu last night and it was not the spiritual experience I was hoping for. I have heard many on this forum praise Ozu's camera work. When his shots are wide I am totally on board. I think he knows how to fill those shots beautifully they are detailed and interesting. I also like how he lingers for a moment after a scene is essentially over. Lets us watch the characters eat for a moment or he focuses in on their facial expressions. Unfortunately that is only half the story. The other half comes in when the characters are interacting through dialogue. I think the way he cuts back and forth with the actors looking not into the camera but just past it is really distracting. When I first noticed it I tried to take my mind off it quickly but it is constant and intentional so it is impossible to overlook. I think this plays into another area where I am going to disagree with most about Ozu. I didn't think the acting was good at all. I felt like every emotion was forced from the actors. This may be because of the camera angles, I don't know, but it felt that way to me. I also had an issue with the score. I was trying to think of a word to describe it and the best I could come up with is it felt overly sentimental. Its a small gripe because it is not over used, but again I felt it while watching.

All these things are evident to me in a scene that is probably regarded as one of the most emotional in the film but that I couldn't wait for it to end. It is when the daughter and father are at a musical event together. The music was distracting but I am really not supposed to be paying attention to it, I am supposed to be feeling the weight of what is going on with our protagonist. She is struggling with leaving her father to get married. She has just found out her father's intentions and is probably feeling alienated. The scene goes on for a goid bit and if I was feeling what this character was feeling it would probably be my favorite scene in the movie.

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Letterboxd

Sorry guys only half of what I wrote posted. I am going to try and get it back.

Don't know how I did that. That's what I get for posting from my phone. It seems coherent but probably misinformed. I will post my other thoughts later.

Ozu for you seems like Tarantino for me.

I've seen 3 Ozu, and he's on the fast track to being a top 10 director for me.

interesting you felt like that Sean. I'll wait to read the other part of your post before I reply

I went on to talk about my favorite scene in the movie. It is when the daughter and father are packing to leave. I felt real weight in the dialogue during that scene. I felt sympathy for both characters. I just wish there were more scenes like that to enjoy. I also don't want to come acrosx as all my problems with the film being from a technical perspective. I really think there was a generational and cultural divide that kept me at arms length for much of the time.

I have thought a lot about this movie despite my general apathy towards it. Maybe that is a good sign for when I move forward with Ozu. I mostly think it is because I know how much he is loved and I wish I could share in that. I felt like I was watching The Godfather or Citizen Kane for the first time and I am going to be one of those contrary opinions that is so obviously wrong. Such is the life of a film fan though, we all have those greats that just don't work for us personally. I mean there are people around here that don't like Wes Anderson, can you imagine?

Don't give up on Ozu, Sean. He definitely grew on me. I had problems with his technical style at first too, but after a while I accepted what he was doing and tried, and succeeded, to appreciate it for what it was. I also love how he tells his stories - focusing more on the simple moments than the big events.

I will watch Tokyo Story after all my HOF viewing.

There's people who don't like Wes Anderson? no really??

Back to Late Spring. I think you could be right about the generational and cultural barrier stopping you enjoying the film more Sean. I had to learn to 'get' Japanese films on a deeper level, but the rewards are brilliant
There are cultural differences specially in the older films as these ones are. We have to remember this is just after the war and there's a battle of cultures for younger Japanese who see the lifestyle of the occupying Americans contrasting with their parents and grandparents life with their very intense feelings of honour and pride. The younger people see the American way of life brought over by the GI's and who can blame them for wanting more after the privations of the war*. You can see that represented in the film by Noriko's friend's house with her western furniture and clothes.

Some people find Noriko's smiling incongruous when she's obviously angry and hurt, but again this is a cultural thing with Japanese people tending not to express negative emotions in their facial expressions so cover with a smile. I've read that the Japanese pay a lot more attention to the eyes when they study peoples faces and you can see that in the scene you mention where Noriko and her father are at a concert, That would play a lot different in a Western film, we'd probably see tears and a lot more emotion in her face as she looked at the woman she expected her father to marry. We have to use that long scene to take time to think of the turmoil she must be feeling.
Because she was in public she would never have shown emotion like upset or disappontment and you see how Ozu plays that against the background of the Noh play where traditionally the characters all wear blank faced masks. The other scene where she's packing up from holiday would have them more at ease so able to talk more openly although respect for her father would mean she wouldn't want to upset him unduly.

I think you have to think a different way when you watch films like this, and even some contemporary Japanese films will have you in silence contemplating what's happening rather than have it happening for you if you know what I mean!

*It was a little like that in Liverpool during WWII. American GI's brought chewing gum, sweets and fruit for the children living around the docks like my mum and dad. 'Got some gum chum?' they used to ask them My mum always remembered a box of big shiny red apples given to their class by an American. The kids carried the apples around all day, too amazed to eat them!

I've definitely hit cultural barriers in some of the foreign films I've seen. But for whatever reason, Japanese films are the foreign I've responded to the most positively so far.

All good points Christine. Thanks for responding so thoroughly. I definitely never felt "lost" during the movie. I felt like I could see what he was going for in each scene, I just didn't feel the weight of it, if that makes sense? I will certainly be open to exploring him further. For a film fan I also have a tendency to put a lot of emphasis on dialogue, probably too much. I think that is why I love the Andersons and Tarantino so much. Their writing has as much of an impact as their visuals for me. I need to learn to get lost in a film a little more, I think that will help me with films where the dialogue isn't as dense. I think I am getting better at it then a film like this comes along that leaves me cold, no that's the wrong word. This is not a cold film. Maybe ambivalent is more fitting.

Makes perfect sense Sean, and that's a good way of putting it - 'getting lost in a film' . I definately remember having to learn to do that years ago when I first got into Japanese cinema, and also other more 'difficult' films. I used to think of it as 'relaxing into it' as I used to find it hard to switch off the feeling that I should be understanding more than I did. I used to be intimidated by reading reviews of films where I got nothing like the reviewers were on about, but I guess it's like anything - the more you do it the easier it is

Christine's post has summed things up much more eloquently than I could but i'll add a couple of points.

I find that any director that has their own style is somewhat of an "acquired" taste. I've never been a big fan of Anderson and even during Moonlight Kingdom I was thinking "ok Wes, we've seen this all before. You can do quirky now do something different!" But I was missing the point. That's his style and it provides the framework in which he can tell his story and develop his characters. Once I got it I loved The Fantastic Mr Fox & The Grand Budapest Hotel. Ozu has his style and if you like it there is a lot of great movies to enjoy. I've seen 14 and the lowest rating I gave was -.

Sean, I think you'll probably like Tokyo Story more and if you have time check out his three 60s movies - whilst the style is the same the focus changed more to the parents rather than the children. You may like those better.

Also, you mentioned the talking into the camera thing. That's probably the only thing about Ozu's style that I don't particularly like. I always thought it felt a bit awkward.

Asian people are more reserved, introverted and hence their movies are also like that. It's a more subtle culture. Specially Ozu in that regard he is the most subtle among the more famous Japanese directors. Though that depends on the person's own personality, I believe more introverted individuals would enjoy Asian movies more than extroverted persons would. The covering emotion with a smile is very common thing I think more people do that than Japanese woman do that and it's common in many Asian films, TV series, manga and novels.

I don't think I ever had to learn to get Japanese films though. I watched so much Japanese TV when I was already 5 (live action and animated) that I identify with these films as much as I do with American films, which I also began watching when I was very little. Also modern Japanese live action films are more influenced by the visual language of manga, in comparison to 1940's-1950's-1960's movies which are more traditional in their direction. I think they are more accessible in some sense but modern ones are faster/more direct and more similar in that way to contemporary hollywood movies.

Ozu's films in particular have been enormously influential in terms of direction over Japanese films, TV and even manga. Late Spring was the first Ozu film I watched and I had it into my top 10 when I first did my top 100 films list here.

Mizoguchi is more popular in the west than in Japan. There even Kinoshita can be regarded as more influential/important than Mizoguchi, who is like Watanabe and Kon (in animation), one of these guys who are popular among western fans of Japanese film/TV rather than the Japanese themselves.

While Ozu is enormously influential, it's no question that Kurosawa is more important than Ozu. Kurosawa can be regarded as perhaps the most influential Asian artist of the 20th century.

I loved Late Spring, Tokyo Story and I Was Born, But.. the most, at least the ones whose specific scenes are so memorable. An Autumn Afternoon is also great.

Relaxing to this type of movie is absolutely essential. For their subtle charm to capture you. Though Late Spring is like Ozu's prototype film of his most famous phase and hence can be regarded as the most accessible of that set of films.

Watch his "children's" films:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...e-top-3/.81484

My Neighbor Totoro
Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind
Laputa: Castle in the Sky
Seven Samurai
Good Morning (お早よう)
The Castle of Cagliostro
Spirited Away
Twenty-Four Eyes
Tenkōsei (Exchange Students)
Otoko wa Tsurai yo ("It's Tough Being A Man")
I Was Born, But... (later remade as Good Morning)
Typhoon Club
Whisper of the Heart
The Girl Who Leapt Through Time
Night on the Galactic Railroad

I find it interesting how people who didn't like Ozu's films manage to never insult them. When I forced people here to watch a couple of anime films, including a Miyazaki film (who is generally revered as much as Ozu is in Japan), some insulted them really violently, even the ones who are very well regarded (like the extremely venomous reaction for the Utena film). A little humility and respect would be appreciated.

Miyazaki got insulted? That's just wrong.

I'd recommend Twenty Four Eyes too. It's a lovely film

I think it's that the people who don't like Ozu to start tend to self-doubt rather than doubt the artist, and that the reaction tends not to be strong in the case of those who don't like him. Obviously it's not fair, but it is what it is

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Mubi