A scary thing happened on the way to the Movie Forums - Horrorcrammers

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I read a discussion a while back where a few people trashed everyone who's a fan of Salo and it got me thinking.

This is because these people don't understand how art can function. It's one of the great fallacies that comes with thinking that movies are primarily made for 'entertainment purposes'. And why thinking of film through this specific lens narrows its value where people start to think watching something like Salo is about those in the audience being 'entertained' by the atrocities being committed on the characters.



Obviously film CAN entertain. But the over arching point of film needs to be defined much more broadly as something that is used to make us look at life and beauty and feelings and thoughts from different vantage points, and come away with a greater understanding what it is to be alive. To be an individual. To be a member of a community. To be a patriot. To be a revolutionary. To be a romantic or a nihilist. Film grants us passports to different ways of looking at the world, and a film like Salo (in short) allows us to contemplate the way in which authoritarianism manifests in society. How it warps those in power and how it affects those beneath such thumbs as these. It explores the relationship between these two groups in a way which is deliberately discomforting. And we don't watch it to be entertained. The better word, is we watch it to be engaged. And to hope to understand.



When people only comprehend art as something to passively accept while they watch, and to only reinforce previously held beliefs as they pass the time, and to never challenge establish norms or morals or political stances, then that's how we get these dullards out there who can only look at the violence of Salo and shake their head and wonder what's so fun about shit-eating.



It's just a bad bad bad bad bad opinion to judge anyone's personality on their taste in film, without there first being a discussion of what they think films can do. And what they are getting from it. Admittedly, a lot of people are still not going to grasp this, even after a good long talking to. But you can't save everyone from their paralyzingly awful opinions.



We’re all horror fans here. I’m sure someone in our lives judged us for liking horror at one time or another.



though “movies” like this Vomit Doll things made by the rapist with a name like Valentine would certainly be fair discussion to do so
I looked these up on Letterboxd, and between all the half star ratings, reviews describing them as jerk off material for serial killers, and the godawful posters, I don't think I've ever ruled out watching something this quickly. Didn't realize the director with a goofy ass name was also a rapist, that's just the cherry on top of this shit sundae of reasons to stay away.



I looked these up on Letterboxd, and between all the half star ratings, reviews describing them as jerk off material for serial killers, and the godawful posters, I don't think I've ever ruled out watching something this quickly. Didn't realize the director with a goofy ass name was also a rapist, that's just the cherry on top of this shit sundae of reasons to stay away.

Yeah, I don't think that's for me either. Oof.



Sort of like August Underground movies, I just stay away.



Even I have limits.



I looked these up on Letterboxd, and between all the half star ratings, reviews describing them as jerk off material for serial killers, and the godawful posters, I don't think I've ever ruled out watching something this quickly. Didn't realize the director with a goofy ass name was also a rapist, that's just the cherry on top of this shit sundae of reasons to stay away.
I only know about them because of there was a reddit thread started by one of his victims and other victims popped in (many of which spoke of him grooming them online since they were underage). He apparently preyed on girls with eating disorders and manipulated them into being in his "movies".

The Soska sisters (American Mary, Rabid) are also wrapped up in all this and have greatly minimized their online presence after being accused of being in one of his movies and having a softcore lesbian incest scene where they eventually brutalize a young black woman that appears to be under the influence.

It's one of those things that seems so utterly toxic I feel bad even knowing about it.

So while I traditionally don't judge people on what they enjoy, if someone claimed this as among their favorites, I'd probably jump to a few conclusions.



I only know about them because of there was a reddit thread started by one of his victims and other victims popped in (many of which spoke of him grooming them online since they were underage). He apparently preyed on girls with eating disorders and manipulated them into being in his "movies".

The Soska sisters (American Mary, Rabid) are also wrapped up in all this and have greatly minimized their online presence after being accused of being in one of his movies and having a softcore lesbian incest scene where they eventually brutalize a young black woman that appears to be under the influence.

It's one of those things that seems so utterly toxic I feel bad even knowing about it.

So while I traditionally don't judge people on what they enjoy, if someone claimed this as among their favorites, I'd probably jump to a few conclusions.
Jesus Christ.



Yeah, I don't think that's for me either. Oof.



Sort of like August Underground movies, I just stay away.



Even I have limits.
Yeah, there's a whole category of movie whose aim is to primarily shock or disgust that I have no interest in. I can appreciate shocking, disgusting movies, but for me to want to watch them, those qualities need to be...organic, for lack of a better word. I.e. movies like The Untold Story and Ebola Syndrome where that is an appropriate tone to deal with the subject matter. I'm probably not being coherent here, but it's the difference between wanting to see, I dunno, Cannibal Holocaust (which I think is still shit) and Faces of Death (which I have no desire to see).



The Soska sisters (American Mary, Rabid) are also wrapped up in all this and have greatly minimized their online presence after being accused of being in one of his movies and having a softcore lesbian incest scene where they eventually brutalize a young black woman that appears to be under the influence.
You know, I've liked a couple of their films but this is completely in character from what little I know. I'm sure they felt like they were being SO out there. Blech.

(the abuse of drugged people is a terrible surprise, I should clarify. Never would have assumed that of them. I just mean participating in the "underground" horror scene seems like something they would aspire to. I repeat: Blech.)
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I love that you said this.
You have to be relative, because what I consider a 6.5, someone else might consider a 3, or a 9.

And maybe I should have clarified that gore doesn't bother me so much as emotionally upsetting things.

Well, this is interesting.
I have avoided this movie for years, while also feeling like I should watch it, as a Horror/grindhouse fan. Something just made me feel like it was gonna leave me feeling like Last House On The Left, which was not good.
Well here are two things that I would say about Maniac (which I actually didn't find that upsetting).

First, there is almost a complete lack of exploitative sexual violence stuff. There is violence in a sexual context (because the killer's problems are all bound up in his unresolved issues about his mother's sex work and seeing women who are sexually active is clearly a trigger for him), but the way that it's shot doesn't feel like a bunch of scenes were assembled clearly for the purpose of displaying female bodies for titillation alongside their brutal murders. There's one shot that falls in to that category (an unnecessary--though not horribly excessive--full frontal shot of a woman getting into a bathtub), but there's a nice dearth of "This woman is going to be killed horribly, but first let's contrive to get her shirt off."

Second, like I noted in my review, it does a pretty good job of walking the fine line of letting us see and understand the victims' fear and pain without giving the impression that we're supposed to be enjoying it. The women are all portrayed as being perfectly nice, even ordinary people, and they are all humanized before they are attacked. From both a physical and an emotional point of view, it never feels like the camera is leering at the victims.

I'm not saying that this is a feel-good film, of course, but at the same time there's no sense that someone's elbowing you as a woman is dying going "Pretty hot, right?" like some other movies seem to be doing.

On a side note, where does Don't Go In The House rank? Is that like a 5? Or just a 4 on this scale?
I haven't seen that one yet.

I just found The Shout is available on Amazon Prime. Has anyone seen this? I’ve been meaning to watch this for a little while now.
It's pretty good. I would recommend it. It's certainly an unusual premise and the story develops in some interesting ways.

I don't know, I think if I had worked on The Witch, I suspect my feelings would be shaped more by my experience working on the movie, my opinion of the outcome, and subsequent work experiences (maybe relevantly, with the same director).
Well, like I noted parenthetically, as an outsider it is hard to know what the relationship is between Eggers and his former co-workers, or how they regard (if at all) things he says in interviews.

In regards to upsetting/disturbing films (The Last House on the Left, Cannibal Holocaust, Forced Entry, etc), do you guys think there's any cases where it's okay to judge other people for enjoying those kinds of films?
Like MKS said, it's more about why someone enjoys a movie. For example, I read a review of I Spit on Your Grave written by a woman who had herself been a victim of rape. She wrote about liking the film as a sort of fantasy/catharsis of revenge. As someone who also uses horror movies to confront and work through some of my own fears and experiences, I totally get this point of view. I also read a review of I Spit on Your Grave where the writer enthusiastically said that it had the "best rape scenes", made lots of comments about the lead actress's body, and just generally filled me with despair.

As I have said before, I do sometimes judge people for watching/liking/endorsing films if I think that they are actively harmful. For example, films that use animal cruelty or involve actual abuse of actors (especially child actors). I think that paying for and/or praising such films adds to a "market" for such behavior and helps perpetuate it. Now, what does "actively harmful" mean? That's obviously my own personal barometer and someone else's definition might be very different.



6:15 pm: Finds Things streaming on Shudder. Presses "play" to see what all the fuss is about, with no intention of actually watching it.


6:30 pm: Decides that I'm watching Things tonight.



6:15 pm: Finds Things streaming on Shudder. Presses "play" to see what all the fuss is about, with no intention of actually watching it.


6:30 pm: Decides that I'm watching Things tonight.

Lol. Have fun with that.



6:15 pm: Finds Things streaming on Shudder. Presses "play" to see what all the fuss is about, with no intention of actually watching it.


6:30 pm: Decides that I'm watching Things tonight.
Don't forget to put your jacket in the fridge before you start.



Then after Things, just to prove you really hate life itself, immediately follow that up with Wicked World.


Why leave any trace of joy remaining? Kill it all.



Make sure you leave your review on Letterboxd. Barry J Gillis uses the site and likes reviews of his movies on there.



LOL these contrasting entries in the IMDb Parents' Guide:

While technically a gory horror movie, the acting and effects are so terrible that even a small child would see through the facade.

Excessive scenes of horror and extreme violence.



Things is one of those movies I could never expect anyone to possibly like. It's always a miracle not to hate it with every fibre of your being. But, it's also a movie that I will silently judge you for if you can't finish it. If you let it break you. If you are weak and lose sight of greatness.


It's a very important film