Who Will be Our Next President?

Tools    





Remember that group recently that got arrested for planning to kidnap that Democrat governor? Trump was getting all types of blame. They just assumed they were his supporters. They hated Trump.



Half were Trump supporters I think one was against him.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.msn...mp/ar-BB1aLDq8


Lotus ( meaning of Kamala in India ) is heartbeat away from being Potus....says Indian media. Will this really happen ?



Lotus ( meaning of Kamala in India ) is heartbeat away from being Potus....says Indian media. Will this really happen ?
Will Kamala Harris become President? Itís certainly possible. Assuming Biden wins the election, heíll be the oldest president the U.S. has ever had. If he were to die or become incapacitated during his term of office, Harris would become president. Even if he doesnít, being vice would put her in a decent position to become a future presidential candidate somewhere down the line.



Glad to see the push back on the absolutely baseless conspiracies being spread in this thread. The burden of proof is not on somebody else to disprove a conspiracy theory, a theory isn't valid or believable until dismissed, instead, surely it's the opposite? I do actually think that we have a responsibility to check the validity of things before sharing. If something sounds untrue then I would always check before sharing, virtually all of Trump's claims can be checked in a few minutes and proved as untrue, so it's not a big ask.

Also, I'm surprised at some of the hate Biden has got in here from people who are anti-Trump. A few years ago I loved Bernie Sanders too and think he's a nice guy but there's no way he or someone on the left would have won this election as I now see it. The Democrats did bad with Hispanic voters worried about socialism/communism and Biden did well with suburban voters and in places where they had more moderate candidates leading the charge (Stacey Abrams). I like Andrew Yang too and I think at the very least he has conversations others don't have about changes in labour processes but it would have again been very easy for people to smear him as left-wing and communist with his support for UBI. Tulsi Gabbard I liked too but perhaps too similarly socially conservative to shift many votes away from Trump, and she was never going to get chosen by the DNC anyway.
__________________



cricket's Avatar
Registered User
Way to avoid the question.



I'd say given the controversy surrounding their mention in the debate and the fact that they've taken up the "stand back, stand by" statement and celebrated it, a lot of people care.

You say they're not white supremacists. I say, "Okay, then what are they?" and you give me a video of a man you say is their leader stating that they are not a white supremacist group and that they condemn the KKK. That doesn't answer my question. You laugh about supposed misrepresentation of the group and whine about misinformation being spread, yet refuse to provide what you say is the truth when asked for it.



I'm still waiting for the actual evidence that they are irrelevant. I will ask again. What do the Proud Boys stand for?
I don't care about any of this. You can have all the points you want. I care that you claimed that he won't condemn white supremacist. It's not true and it's part of the false narrative out there. Anything else you want to debate you can be right or not, it doesn't matter to me. The point I questioned you on is the only part I care about. The rest of this is meaningless to me. The supremacist part is wrong and people shouldn't be perpetuating that lie. You can be right about everything else. I don't know how much simpler I can put this. Am I wrong about the point I care about?

As I have stated, I am not a fan of Biden. Actually, I'm not a fan of ANY politician and I've said that before as well. I said that in 2016. I wasn't a fan of Obama and I certainly wasn't a fan of Hillary. I think all politicians are lying, two-faced pieces of crap regardless of party affiliation. The only question is who is less crappy? The highest praise I have given Biden is that I think (really, it's more like hope) he sucks less than Trump. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement. Is Biden a racist? I don't know. Maybe. But the evidence that you've provided saying that he is racist are things that he did in the 1970s and 1990s. Are you the same person you were 20 or 30+ years ago? I know I'm not. So I'm not really interested in things he said or did then. I'm interested in the things he is doing and saying now.
He has been questionable recently as well but that's cool. I'm just trying to point out the hypocrisy that's out there. Maybe I'm getting away from the point of our talk now? That's fine I'll stay on topic.



cricket's Avatar
Registered User



Half were Trump supporters I think one was against him.
So some were and some weren't yet they were working together. Maybe some people could learn something from them lol



cricket's Avatar
Registered User
Those sure seemed like some fine, upstanding citizens and not at all a militia or hate group. /s
I say we should drop them and antifa off on a deserted island and leave them there together. Any group like them as well. Good?



Please donít shout at my clouds
Anybody seeing the "flagged as inaccurate posts" on social media? If that's not an immediate sign to to remove a post, I don't know what is. Keep on keeping on people.



I see a lot about the polling stuff and the legitimacy of these votes. Maybe it's not the same everywhere (states being in control of the procedure) but NC has an equal number of observers from both parties. My father was actually a volunteer this year and could talk your ear off about it. These people cannot leave the polls at anytime during the day and return.


The questioning of the legitimacy of the process is one of the most damaging things we can do, just because "our" guy didn't win. It's always been like this. It amazes me how people think that the party not in power, through the executive or legislative branch right now, has this much influence. Not only that, but how many people voted against the Republican President, yet voted for Republican congressional candidates. We can also talk about provisional votes and how people are interviewed before turning one in and then the votes are reviewed by both parties before being counted?


I haven't kept up with the entirety of this thread and just parachuted in with this.



cricket's Avatar
Registered User
Those sure seemed like some fine, upstanding citizens and not at all a militia or hate group. /s
I watched the clip of when Wallace asked Trump about the Proud Boys again and I now have a strong opinion on it. Immediately Trump says "who?", which is consistent with him later saying he didn't know who they were, which makes perfect sense since before that moment many people didn't know who they were. I've already illustrated why the president would be annoyed with getting these types of questions over and over, and you can see in the video I posted earlier that sometimes he responded in a fashion like yea yea whatever you want me to say, and who can blame him after it gets so old. Wallace asks Trump, would you tell the proud boys to stand down. After saying who, he appears to go into sure whatever mode by saying the somewhat conflicting stand back and stand by, which happens to sound a lot like stand down. Stand down, stand by, stand back? I think you have to be searching for something negative to think he was sending some type of secret message. I think we would all agree that sometimes he could say things in a much more clear way, but let's all try not to automatically think the worst all the time.

So that video of the proud boys shows a group of guys who apparently love America and beer, and hate Antifa. Like any group, some individuals are better or worse when it comes to pretty much anything. So what I'm wondering, if they love America and hate Antifa, what do people have a problem with? That is, if what they say is true about only being violent in self defense. Loving one's country is not a bad thing right? Hating Antifa is not a bad thing right? They hate a group that hurts and kills people, and burns, loots, and vandalizes businesses, including many that are black owned. If you don't like the proud boys, is it because you hate America or support Antifa? It's a reasonable question.



That guy is clearly not a white supremacist. Does anyone have an issue with what he said, and if so, why? Democrat politicians have been preventing police from doing their job and letting Antifa run wild. Apparently these guys are stepping in. Am I missing something? Does hating antifa make you a hate group? Does hating the KKK make you a hate group?

There's a common trait I'm seeing among people who don't like the proud boys. I don't know this, but my guess would be that the proud boys support Trump. Do people who condemn the proud boys do it because they don't like Trump, and therefore don't like their supporters? Is that why they get lumped in unfairly with white supremacist groups?



FWIW Jane Coaston, who writes about white supremacy all the time, says the Proud Boys are a white nationalist group, which is bad in its own way but technically different. Take that how you will.



More debunkings of election fraud conspiracies here:

https://reuters.com/fact-check

I like to post this stuff because the people floating conspiracies are usually styling it as general healthy skepticism, and it's nice to call that bluff and find out that they usually go "oh, no thanks, got all the facts and context I need now, gonna stop right here."



cricket's Avatar
Registered User
FWIW Jane Coaston, who writes about white supremacy all the time, says the Proud Boys are a white nationalist group, which is bad in its own way but technically different. Take that how you will.
Noted, yet they have a minority leader, 20% minority membership, and they have completely denounced white supremacy. I don't know anything about Coaston, including what her agenda may be.



I'm not sure you understood entirely: Coaston says they're not white supremacists, but white nationalists instead. Both are bad in their own way, but they're not the same thing.

Personally I've never felt this line of discussion was compelling, if only because it's easily explained by Trump just being really careless and having a kneejerk aversion to being "made" to say something. It's pretty lame that he seems to first ask himself if a group likes him before responding to anything, but I've never accused him of supporting white supremacy because it's ambiguous at best and there's plenty of other firmer ground to criticize from, but that's just me.

Honestly, the main thing is that if someone overreaches in their criticism of Trump, that overreach ends up being the only thing people talk about.



cricket's Avatar
Registered User
I'm not sure you understood entirely: Coaston says they're not white supremacists, but white nationalists instead. Both are bad in their own way, but they're not the same thing.
I got you and sure, she calls them anti-Semitic based on statements she's heard from some members. I think you can find that in any group, but I don't think that defines the group. I think that's a big problem that we have, labeling groups because of some individuals.

Personally I've never felt this line of discussion was compelling, if only because it's easily explained by Trump just being really careless and having a kneejerk aversion to being "made" to say something. It's pretty lame that he seems to first ask himself if a group likes him before responding to anything, but I've never accused him of supporting white supremacy because it's ambiguous at best and there's plenty of other firmer ground to criticize from, but that's just me.
But we also know that sometimes he's asked questions in which the questions themselves distort the truth. He seems quite aware of that.

Honestly, the main thing is that if someone overreaches in their criticism of Trump, that overreach ends up being the only thing people talk about.
I think it's extremely important when it comes to racism because I believe that it has had a very negative impact on the country and even in the world.



cricket's Avatar
Registered User
You know what's happened Yoda. An innocent decent person could be walking down the street minding their own business wearing a trump hat and they are suddenly attacked and called a Nazi. It is because of the false narrative and it needs to stop.



I'm not suggesting this is not important, I'm suggesting that people overreacting to Trump in no way doubles back and changes the things he's actually guilty of. This is kind of related to the thing I said earlier about partisans and how they don't really lie, they just choose to focus on some things and not others.

If someone is sympathetic to Trump, they can avoid talking about his problems by talking about the overreactions. They can always pivot to Biden, to Democrats, to the claims that go too far. They will always be able to say something to avoid conceding that he's said or down awful things. You say these groups always have some awful people making awful statements in them, and that's true. It is also true that a major political party will always have people overreacting. So the temptation to (and ability to) talk mostly about that will always be there.

Doesn't mean it doesn't matter. It does. But I'm still not sure it's more important than the actual conduct of the person with the actual power, which I think we should probably weight our attention towards. That's just my opinion, though.



cricket's Avatar
Registered User
I'm not suggesting this is not important, I'm suggesting that people overreacting to Trump in no way doubles back and changes the things he's actually guilty of. This is kind of related to the thing I said earlier about partisans and how they don't really lie, they just choose to focus on some things and not others.

If someone is sympathetic to Trump, they can avoid talking about his problems by talking about the overreactions. They can always pivot to Biden, to Democrats, to the claims that go too far. They will always be able to say something to avoid conceding that he's said or down awful things. You say these groups always have some awful people making awful statements in them, and that's true. It is also true that a major political party will always have people overreacting. So the temptation to (and ability to) talk mostly about that will always be there.

Doesn't mean it doesn't matter. It does. But I'm still not sure it's more important than the actual conduct of the person with the actual power, which I think we should probably weight our attention towards. That's just my opinion, though.
Sure, and I have consistently said there's a lot of things he could do better, there's a lot of things he could say better, there's a lot of questions surrounding him, etc. However, the white supremacy thing is a lie. Obviously that last point is something the two of us are not debating. I'm less concerned about Trump that I am about the racial issues that I see in the country, and I believe the unfair attacks on Trump are partly responsible.



cricket's Avatar
Registered User
I would tell people to watch these videos and try to let it sink in. When you tell lies about Trump's supposed racism, I don't think you are hurting him. That narrative is definitely hurting others though and that's why it needs to stop. The hell with Trump, I don't care about him. He will be fine.