Franchises: A Controversial Conclusion

That's a lot of what I see with franchises that start off strong but end in a whimper or we just lose interest. So many franchises are only limited to their source material and writing, so when the franchise outlives its source material, but studios still see gold to mine, they'll find a way to get the golden goose to keep laying eggs. Ultimately what happens with that are time deadlines that must be met, compromises made, and corporate collaboration that likely care little for the art of cinema or storytelling. The end result is material that comes across as very forced and even a little bit like fan fiction.

I don't know about the kids these days, but when I was coming of age in the 1990's and early 2000's the worse insult to level at a piece of writing or fiction is that it is reminiscent of fan fiction.

I can only, off the top of my head without doing research, think of two franchises that have worked very well or at least with varying results and that's the James Bond franchise and the Mad Max franchise. What's interesting too is that while James Bond does have a handful of genuinely mediocre films that push dangerously towards bad, the Mad Max series doesn't have a single bad film in it. But what's interesting is that these are two franchises that rely less on world building with a hundred proper nouns of places, locations, and rules and far more on tone, atmosphere, and character. Star Trek up until "Discovery" and the reboot films starting in 2009 or so, was a great series, but it gone so far beyond what it started as and the core/foundation of the world, that it's not even recognizable any more.

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In regards to the Star Trek franchise, I think Strange New Worlds is done very well. I stopped watching after Voyger but this series started and I absolutely love it.

I grew up a Star Trek fan.

I'm not sure the full context of this back and forth, but when I read this the first thing that came to mind was Road House.

"What if they call my momma a whore!!?!"

"Well, is she?"

Aside from that, in this case that's illustrated, that would vandalism not art and I don't give a hoot and holler about majority opinion because tyranny by majority is a real thing and rarely is the quality of something solely determined upon the number of people who like or dislike a thing.

The MCU films.... all 900 of them, are a fine example of that. I'm inclined to agree with Scorsese that they are just empty roller coasting and amusement park rides. Going further, I'd say they're cotton candy and it's too bad because that's what is being shown at cineplexes and it's one of the only few options unless you live in a place that has more indie-driven theaters.

I really do believe it's one of the reasons Top Gun: Maverick did so well back in 2022 that put butts in the seats of people who haven't been to a movie in years if not a decade or more. It was a familiar story, character, etc AND it wasn't a superhero Marvel whatever.

I tried to watch a couple of them, and I just can't... certainly not anything made of late. I saw the first several Spiderman films and the first Avengers back in the 2000s or so. I watched both Deadpool films and they were awful. To be fair, I did like Logan a lot, but that was a deliberate, to varying degrees of success to do something solid and different. And yes, I'm a sucker for Shane, so I'd be lying if I said my like for that film is completely independent of it highlighting a great piece of cinema and bringing it back into the popular culture lexicon.

That's how I exactly felt when I watched the first season of Picard. Sure it had some of the STTNG actors/characters but the heart and ethics of the characters were 180 from the original series and STTNG. After the 1st season of Picard I decided to watch anymore.

Yeah, that is the one ST series that people seem to really like. I've heard praise for it here at MoFo. One of these days I'll check it out.

I realize the MCU movies aren't everyone's cup of tea, and I'm not gonna try to change anyone's mind, but above and beyond the movies themselves, they have done something very valuable for indie directors.

Many of the more recent ones have been directed by indie mavericks. And, looking at it from their perspective, getting a Marvel-sized paycheck sometimes makes it possible for them to take that money and be able to afford going back to working on smaller indie films, without having to worry so much about being OK financially (those indie films are sometimes really a labor of love).

For example, Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck, who directed 2019's Captain Marvel, went back to more indie filmmaking after that movie. Their most recent effort is the low-budget Freaky Tales, which opens in April. I've heard good things about it, and I'm looking forward to it.

Painting all MCU movies with a broad brush seems a bit unfair, because it devalues the work of some really amazing directors who've been hired to do a Marvel, and sometimes just go back to indie films afterwards. It's not fair (imho) to tarnish one of the movies in their filmography just because they accepted a job that would pay well and leave them better off for whatever they do next, which in the case of indie films, isn't going to pay a lot.

I think all the actor who embody all the old characters do a very good job.

Anson Mount has the charisma of Captain Pike, Ethan Peck ( Gregory Peck's grandson, by the way) has the stoicism and demeanor of Spock. Jess Bush, Babs Olusanmokun, Celia Rose Gooding, as well as other actors/actresses bring value to other characters we know and love.

Those are good, I also like Christina Chong, Melissa Navia, and of course Rebecca Romijn

The chemistry between Ethan Peck and Jess Bush kept me wanting more of their story.

They do have good chemistry! I am certainly more than game to pick up some fan fiction, if the series won't do too much with their relationship...

2 & 3 are cohesive given they were filmed back to back, and they pushed a lot of technical limits. twice the latex, i do approve.

the latest one is a homage to Smith. and it is ****ing genius.

Yes, DS9 is most certainly my favorite Trek show these days. Starts a little weak, but once it gets going, it just gets better and better.

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The position of the Stoker estate was "Plagiarism not art."

In either case, however, we might ask, "Why not both?"

Does the claim that spray painting the word "whore" on someone's gravestone constitutes as vandalism not art really need a rationale? If so we have far bigger fish to fry.

As far as DS9 goes, that show was amazing and almost on the level of TNG.

I guess I'm the oddball in this channel. I tend to judge even the individual movies in franchises on how much I enjoy them than how well they fit into an overall schema. I've watched the original Star Trek "live" in the late 60s, followed through with the movies, then Next Gen, but then life had me take a break from DS9 and Voyager. Discovery was "out there" but I liked it well enough. Picard, sure, entertaining. New Worlds, very entertaining (even that musical.). I just don't spend my time trying to understand where they all fit in timelines and character arcs. I'm comfortable with that "universe" and as long as it gives me a thrill or a grin, I'm in. Same mostly for Star Wars. I just find the Marvel stuff a bit too lazy in the way the final confrontations always seem to be two superhero shooting energy beams at each other until one of them looks the other way and gets fried.

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Precedent (Graffiti Removal Ruled Destruction of Art)


Precedent (Obscenity Recognized as Art)

Your rights to do as you will with your own property may be limited in other cases, such as if a building you own is determined to be of historical significance (e.g., you can't tear it down, and you may be responsible to keep in good condition).

The Three Little Pigs (destruction of art)

https://abcnews.go.com/International...mark-119470901

Was it right to destroy this artwork?

Just because something is illegal, doesn't stop it from being art.


But it's still illegal, and therefore still subject to laws.


Also, I'm sure when the piglet exhibit is called "So Now You Care" getting either shut down due to animal rights activists or the law was the whole point.


As for the eventual obvious counter about Banksy's art and whether it should be destroyed, it would be a case by case basis, but for those that he has done on private property....yes if the owner of that property doesn't want it there it should be taken down. When it's public property, it's a considerably greyer area, but there may still be reasons to facilitate its removal (also, sometimes reasons to keep it there). Regardless, all of this opens discussion about the topic of how we can or cannot use public space (ie. is it acceptable for corporations to use these same areas for advertisements). You know....art.



And, no, Banksy doesn't seem to care if his work gets torn down. He knows the game he is playing. It's mostly dipshits who haven't put any thought into the matter beyond 'but Banksy is cool' or 'but that Banksy is worth lots of money' who will chain themselves to one if someone says it's going to be taken down.

True, but the question that brought us here is "Would you ever destroy a work of art?"

I think most people would.

If this is all pulling us back to the question of Noserferatu and the plagarism claim....no, I wouldn't have destroyed that piece of art, and I would judge those who would consider that the answer in that particular case.

Just because elements of it may have been plagarised and not credited, doesn't give the relatives of Stoker ownership over the entirity of it to remove it from existence. They are due whatever credit of financial gains they are considered owed, and then they can **** off.