Are you Prolife or ProAbortion?

Yeah, if you consider having a baby evil, I can see that.

How about if you can't operate the zipper on your pants you go ahead and deal with the consequences of your actions. Give the kid up for adoption. Newborns are in high demand. They'll even pay for all of your medical expenses.

I can't stand it when people call abortion the lesser of two evils. If you believe that giving birth to a baby is somehow evil, then you are really evil for having sex. It ain't a mystery how that happens. If you are willing to have sex, believing that bringing a baby into the world is evil, but knowing that you can commit a "lesser evil" by just killing it, then you are really evil. It ain't the choice that is evil. It is the person.

Call it what it is - pro-abortion.

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Jim Lewis
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You're, on some level, preaching to the choir. I can't particularly fathom the thought process, either, but I think that's beside the point, which was that there are people who support legalized abortion, yet are not "pro-abortion." Their view of abortion, I imagine, is rather like the view you or I might take in regards to pornography: to be avoided, but something people need to reject on their own without government interference.

I disagree with these types of people, but do not feel at all comfortable calling them "pro-abortion" knowing that they would wish the end of it, albeit by different, more persuasive means than I would.

Wow that is what I beeen trying to say good words!I argree with you 100%!
Both are not really evil Yoda well to me ProAbortion is evil because babys are geting killed for the fault of there mothers who should not be taking the easy way out.
To me and no one has to argree with me is having an abortion is taking the easy way out of your mistakes.I am not saying no one should pay for there mistakes but killing a baby to me is wrong!Well that is all I guess I want to cover!Oh one more thing yeterday my stepsister(16)had a baby boy and her doctor had told her to conder aborting him but she would it and I think it is very brave for her. My mom and her father is helping her and the father is well gone but that to me is making a choice not to choose abortion or even thining of it!See you around!JM

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Jackie Malfoy
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The truth is that abortion is not the easy way out. I am friends with several women who have had abortions. They suffered for years with guilt, depression, and other problems. Even knowing that they are forgiven by God, they are new creations in Christ, and their slates have been whiped clean; they still struggle with guilt and depression.

I'm Pro-state gland.

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Except that I wouldn't be opposed to pornography being illegal.

Frankly, I like government interference when it comes to murder.

My teacher once read something about Isaiah falling "prostate" before the Lord. Somehow I don't think God felt honored.

This, I definitely have to disagree with. I think freedom is preferable when another is not harmed in the process, and I think it'd be difficult to make a case that pornography directly harms another. It harms one's self, I'd say, but then again, so does gluttony, greed, etc, and I don't know that it's practical to ban these things.

Even if you came to the conclusion that such a set of laws was morally acceptable, it'd still be a logistical nightmare. Regardless, I presume there must be something you have an objection to, yet still believe should be a matter of persuasion, instead of a matter of law. Substitute pornography for that.


So do I. But I think that's apart from what we're discussing, which is what is and is not fair to call someone with a particular mindset. I think pro-abortion implies an explicit approval of the act that does not exist in the mind of every pro-choice advocate. Whether or not they're correct is another matter, because the term suggests a certain intent.

I am saying that people think they are taking the easy way out by thinking they can abort a baby everytime they sleep with someone but like you said it will make them upset and depressed and also I had read that most of abortion people tryed to kill themselves or end up killing them self becuse
They can't get over it it is a horrible expenced you feel very emity and yu will never be able to have kids again after having one if you want one later in life yuo will not able to and it is also brings harm to your body so why does people still do it?And again it is a goverment thing to get a abortion not the other thing around!Just to let yu know!See yuo around!JM

I’m sorry, but your whole view seems to be based on some sugar coated world to me… so I would ask you what about the 11 year old girl who has a drug addicted mother that a 30 year old man impregnates… and then has no idea who she can turn to for help and ends up giving birth to the baby and then discards it in a trash pile… which is the lesser of the two evils in that case --- abortion or death from exposure and starvation?

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I have to say I'm pro-choice. I would NEVER have an abortion myself, but I do think that under certain circumstances it would be best for the mother and the baby if it wasn't born. For example, in the case of a rape... The mother obivously wasn't trying to have a baby or being in a position to have to deal with her actions. The child would probably have a difficult life dealing with the fact that he or she was not wanted.

I do not believe abortion to be a method of birth control. THAT is just wrong. But if there is something wrong with the baby or it affects the mother's life, then it may be okay under those circumstances. If the baby is just not wanted or cannot be taken care of giving it up for adoption is a good choice.

"Pro-life" is such a strong word because it allows for no exceptions. To me, there is always an exception to the rule.

Amen

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You can claim I have a sugar-coated worldview and you can sit around inventing stories that appear worse than abortion, but that doesn't change anything. I mean, what's worse, 25 abortions or 25 babies being born in a hospital just before a HURRICANE destroys the building drowning every baby in the hospital???!!!!!

There aren't that many 11 year old raped and pregnant daughters of drug addicts that will go to Planned Baby-Killerhood to get an abortion. If she ends up there, it would still be better for the baby to be born and given up for adoption. The girl would probably be taken out of custody of the drug-addict mother and put into a foster home, and the boyfriend would get arrested for raping a child.

Your lesser-of-two-evils story doesn't prove anything, as most lesser-of-two-evil stories don't.

And BTW, my sugar-coated worldview includes one dead daughter and one that was in the hospital ICU for 12 weeks. My wife has been within hours of death on two separate occasions where the only thing I could do to help is pray. Every life has tragedy in it at some point. I just don't let my circumstances determine my worldview. I let truth determine it.

She's not inventing these things James. And she has encountered these type of things in her work. And to be honest the huricane example doesn't gel in this case coz we're talking about controllable decisions.

Sure, once the deed is done. And i agree with you that adoption is one valid reason for not aborting - there are lots of people who want kids, and who might even do pretty immoral things to get one (plus add in dropping sperm counts and working women who leave it too late and this trend will most probably continue/increase).

But there are other situations where abortion can be very valid. A raped young child shouldn't be forced to go full term if there is another option - or any victim of rape, especially if the pregnancy may endanger them more than the abortion (i'm sorry to hear about your troubles btw. You certainly have seen the hard end of what can happen in natural child-birth. But surely this can help you appreciate circumstances where someone should not be forced to be put through the trauma of childbirth, especially if they don't have a support network around them).

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As long as one person believes abortion is killing a baby and another person believes abortion is an "option," we're never going to settle this.

Frankly, as long as one person rejects that God exists, there will always be this debate. Without God, you are free to make up your own truth. You can claim that you believe abortion is wrong, but that you shouldn't tell someone else what to believe.

With God, there is absolute truth. Without it, God couldn't exist. My job is to find that truth and try to live by it. With absolute truth, it doesn't matter what you believe or I believe. Truth is truth.

Indeed. And indeed, "truth is truth" - the question always is - are you sure you know that truth. The point about these discussions is to talk about the practicalities (ideally to get closer to best-action, if not "truth" as well). I'm afraid i'm going to take it that you don't want to discuss the genuine situations where abortion can/could be legitimate. I agree with you in your points that it's unlikely that a raped 11 year old is going to come forward either for abortion or to give the baby up for adoption, coz of the threats from the raper etc. But an reasonably open-door policy at least allows for that possibility - and the people who work in those places can spot the signs right enough. She wouldn't have to say anything - they'd just know. It seems like the most pragmatic and moral approach is all

It's a legitimate question to ask, but the fact does remain that the overwhelming majority of abortions (at least in America) are nothing at all like that. I really don't see the sense in supporting all abortion in general on the strength of a few rare, extreme circumstances. These examples would, at best, only provide an argument against an across-the-board ban.

Sure. And the same is true in Britain, i believe, that the majority of abortions are more a delayed version of the morning-after pill. What i was questioning was James's apparant all-out disagreement with abortion. That's the point - i'm arguing that abortion can be valid (although my personal feeling, is that people shouldn't be using it flippantly, or even, shouldn't be allowed overly-easy access to it [i wasn't thinking b4 when i said i only disagree with late-stage abortions]).

Also, when i talked about easy-access centres for the molested kid to walk into, i was thinking of multi-purpose clinics which dealt with various health issues, which could be walked into without prejudice or suspicion. There needs to be a subtle approach taken to lots of issues which might potentially bring about prejudice or persecution (and how these things are set up + who runs them is vital).

I turn into a bit of a prude when it comes to new technologies being used willy-nilly for a percieved "right" or "freedom" to be facilitated (that never existed before). When it's closer to a necessity, or an action that concretely resolves things for the best and avoids huge suffering that couldn't be previously avoided, i'm all for it.

I've already stated that my view of truth is not dependent upon circumstances that you can concoct or relate. Killing with malice aforethought is murder. It doesn't matter if the person doing the killing is an 11 year old raped girl or a 25 year old gang member. And no, its not better to kill a baby before it is born than to dump it in a dumpster to kill it. Both are murder. You don't improve any situation by intentionally killing a baby.

The error here is assuming that the underlying truth is modified by circumstances. That is a worn out topic called situational ethics or relativism.