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I'd never heard of a 'Mary Sue' term until just a few minutes ago, but in reading about it, I see it's a term that has been around for a long time. Longer than woke elements.
Well for example wouldn't Indiana Jones be a Mary Sue character? I mean he doesn't really learn anything and each movie, whenever something supernatural is presented to him, he says "it's just a story", like he does't believe in it, even though he has witnesses it every passing movie.

Or James Bond. A few of the movies he goes through changes, but a lot of the time, especially Roger Moore's version, is pretty much a Mary Sue, isn't he?

Or Rambo? Not First Blood, but Rambo in the sequels?



Well for example wouldn't Indiana Jones be a Mary Sue character? I mean he doesn't really learn anything and each movie, whenever something supernatural is presented to him, he says "it's just a story", like he does't believe in it, even though he has witnesses it every passing movie.

Or James Bond. A few of the movies he goes through changes, but a lot of the time, especially Roger Moore's version, is pretty much a Mary Sue, isn't he?

Or Rambo? Not First Blood, but Rambo in the sequels?
I'm not really familiar with those movies. Read this page, maybe it will answer your questions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue



Well for example wouldn't Indiana Jones be a Mary Sue character? I mean he doesn't really learn anything and each movie, he keeps saying, whenever something supernatural is presented to him, he says "it's just a story", like he does't believe in it, even though he has witnesses it every passing movie.

Or James Bond. A few of the movies he goes through changes, but a lot of the time, especially Roger Moore's version, is pretty much a Mary Sue, isn't he?

Or Rambo? Not First Blood, but Rambo in the sequels?
A Mary Sue is perfect, Indiana Jones and James Bond are far from perfect. (Haven't seen Rambo)

Also, Indiana Jones DOES have a character arc:
medium.com/cinenation-show/breaking-down-character-indiana-jones-f887a15bb8c3
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Oh okay, I didn't know the character had to be perfect perfect to qualify. Does Wonder Woman qualify in the 2017 movie?



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Well for example wouldn't Indiana Jones be a Mary Sue character? I mean he doesn't really learn anything and each movie, whenever something supernatural is presented to him, he says "it's just a story", like he does't believe in it, even though he has witnesses it every passing movie.

Or James Bond. A few of the movies he goes through changes, but a lot of the time, especially Roger Moore's version, is pretty much a Mary Sue, isn't he?

Or Rambo? Not First Blood, but Rambo in the sequels?
The key thing to look for when telling apart regular protagonists from Mary Sues (or Gary Stus) are the flaws and characteristics that make the character interesting/relatable/etc to an audience beyond just being the protagonist. Indiana Jones can fight, but he's not that good a fighter. He can traverse obstacles, but not without serious risk. He's deathly afraid of snakes. He fails at stuff a lot (the cold opens usually involve him chasing a MacGuffin and losing it). When he wins, but just barely. He's skeptical about every potentially supernatural object because one type of magic being real doesn't equate to another type of magic being real (e.g. the stones in Temple are not the same as the Ark in Raiders) - kinda like Dana Scully in that regard. Bond, on the other hand, is much closer to Mary Sue material - the last few versions have tried to ground him and give him more depth, but his earlier incarnations are pretty shameless power fantasies who only fail just enough to shake up the story and give him a cool deathtrap to escape from or some such thing. Sequel Rambo is straight-up Mary Sue.

So yeah, always question whether someone is using Mary Sue the right way.
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Oh okay I see. Yes I also see sequel Rambo being more Mary Sue. I mean gets shot and has to burn the wound shut to stop from bleeding, but then a few minutes later, he is able to run again, and doesn't seem effected. Or gets shot right around the knee area, and screams like this is really bad, but then gets up and runs after the tank.



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We're not even talking about Last Blood where he's about 70 and still able to kill an entire drug cartel single-handed.

As for Wonder Woman, I guess she still has to go through an arc where she learns to curb the whole fight-at-all-costs approach to conflict that she's grown up believing her whole life.



I'd never heard of a 'Mary Sue' term until just a few minutes ago, but in reading about it, I see it's a term that has been around for a long time. Longer than woke elements.
That makes two of us & I still don’t know what it means. Only recently managed to grasp the meaning of “woke”.
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That makes two of us & I still don’t know what it means. Only recently managed to grasp the meaning of “woke”.
Yup...I only learned 'woke' like a month ago. Before that I thought it had to do with something in the morning time.



Is 'woke' not simply the yellow part of an egg then?



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We're not even talking about Last Blood where he's about 70 and still able to kill an entire drug cartel single-handed.

As for Wonder Woman, I guess she still has to go through an arc where she learns to curb the whole fight-at-all-costs approach to conflict that she's grown up believing her whole life.
I haven't seen Last Blood but yes I agree with you based on what you said and the trailer.

I wasn't sure if Wonder Woman's arc count as an actual arc though. She learns new things about a new flawed world she has entered, but her world is portrayd as more Utopian so is coming from a Utopian world, and then learning that a new world is flawed really a character arc, so much as just learning something new about something else?

I mean every time I learn something new, I wouldn't say it's a character arc for me.



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Another one is in action movies, a helicopter will let down a rope or a ladder, for someone to grab on to, and then fly away, with that person hanging instead of allowing them to climb into the helicopter first.



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I guess the idea is for the helicopter to make a quick getaway rather than hang around waiting for the person to climb in first.



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I guess so, but in movies like Thunderball or Planet Terror, there is actually time to climb in though.



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Another one is, a lot of times when you see a police station interrogation scene, the suspect just sits there and takes all the of verbal abuse and intimidation, instead of just requesting a lawyer, and ceasing further interrogation.



Most people just know they have to call a lawyer because they see it in movies.
Asking for a lawyer in movies started has a plot-twist, something people didn't even knew.
Interesting. I think many people wouldn’t have the money for a lawyer so it doesn’t occur to them. With actual trials in movies you do hear things like: ‘If you can not afford a lawyer the state will provide one for you’.



That Juan must be the busiest lawyer in the world!



That makes two of us & I still don’t know what it means. Only recently managed to grasp the meaning of “woke”.
Yup...I only learned 'woke' like a month ago. Before that I thought it had to do with something in the morning time.
Which makes way more sense than what it does mean...



I’m going to barf if I see another top to bottom view of a spiral staircase in a movie.