Spooky needs help!

Hey mofo people! I've been kind of missing for a few months or so........well I have no idea how long really and yeah my life has been in a bit of blender (and not the fruity yummy kind). I need some advice about a tricky situation and as these kinds of things always seem to go it involves a member of the opposite sex (in case u don't know me I'm a guy ). Basically I've been friends with her for about 2 years but she deferred her uni course this semester to work. So I started inviting her to stuff with my mates and we've been getting quite close. I actually started believing that I might be in love........cause yea I've been a bit silly in relationship decisions and I've been waiting for the right person and for some reasons yet for me to realise she seemed perfect.

So yep I thought she was 'the one' and I reckon she had some idea about what I was thinking, seeing as I kept taking the time to talk to her about her worries, spend most of my time around her when we go out and always give her massive hugs whenever I see her. The troubling part of this story is that over time I've realised she's a little.........well.......unstable. There's some hints of depression and I know certain friends of hers have really hurt her. I know that if we went out there could be some degree of me being the knight in shining armour (i've had a bit of experience in this and it always ends up bad, especially with a lot of her friends not around I could be the only one there for her. This could make her dependent on me......which isn't right).

I just need to look at my mum and I see a whole person, who is complete in and of herself and complements my dad in every way. I know this sounds a bit crazy but even though I really really like her I want to back off.........at least I think I do, but I don't know how . I know I've been sending the wrong signals lately and just can't stop cause that's how I relate to her. What can I do to stop the spiral? (for want of a better word). Should I spend less time with her? Not call her unless it's something specific? Should I keep trying to talk her out of going away to France for 6 months? I almost need to work out how to just be friends again. Can anyone help me?

Joel

*woot 1000th post!

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Joel...why would you talk her out of going to France for six months? Sounds like a terrific opportunity for her to gain some life experience. Is she going as a school intership or work related or a family holiday?

By the way...how friendly are you two? You say you've been sending her the wrong signals...are you talking holding hands and cuddling or something more than that? Just wondering, because it would be easier to get back to being 'just friends' if things haven't gone too far. It also would help if you stop thinking of her as possibly "the one" and go back to thinking of her/treating her as a good friend (with hands off). If you're ready to back off now just because she seems needy and emotional, she's not "the one" (at least right now). Or, maybe it's just the timing and it all seems too soon and you're getting a little scared? Anyway...my point is...you'll know it when you love that person warts and all...and won't run from them.

This is just my two little cents...hope it helps a little. Good luck to you.

Annie

Thanks Annie, but am still unsure how to back off.

She wants to try work over there, but it's more of an escape I reckon. The way she has talked previously about how sick of uni she felt and how it depressed her makes me think that. I haven't so much been talking her out of it (altho I implied I was), what i've been doing is telling her how crap it would be if she left and we've all been having heaps of fun lately so it really would be.

No holding hands or cuddling, but other more subtle things like we'll always hug good bye but she won't hug anyone else. Then we'll always end up sitting together, having deep conversations together and it's always me she seems to be with..........as I write this out it doesn't seem that bad but you know when you just get a feeling that a friendship is becoming too close, well that's what it's like.

I totally agree about the timing bit. That's my whole point, now isn't the right time for her. But when you said

It makes me think you don't understand or perhaps I've been unclear. I'm not scared at all. It's not really too soon either. She is just really vulnerable at the moment. There's hints of depression and fear in the way she talks and I don't want to just be her emotional crutch (i'd describe it more intensely than needy and emotional). I can see her vulnerability at the moment and just because I like her doesn't mean I can take advantage of that. She just needs good friends, not boys who somehow keep sending mixed messages. It's the messages I want to fix. How can I spend less time around her when we go out? How can i stop her calling me at night? How can I get her to open up to her friends that are girls instead of me?

These are all impossible questions in my mind so I am quietly hoping you guys have some idea.

You should encourage her to go. It sounds like it could be a great opportunity for her. And your being glum about her leaving is sending the message that you want her to stay.


Annie was saying you're scared of this girl's vulnerability. Which is what you said, in so many words. She showed you that she might be dealing with depression, and you're backing away.

You're saying a lot about what you think she needs and wants, and not much about what you need and want. It's kind of hard to answer your speculations without knowing if what you think she thinks is actually what's going on with her.

You need to talk to her. What you said up there about not wanting to be her emotional crutch is totally fair, you just need to tell her, gently, that that is more than you can deal with. Do not expect her to be thrilled with the news. But it's fair for you to avoid that, and probably best for both of you that you stay out of it, given your level of discomfort with it.

The only way to make someone stop calling you at night (or any other time) is to 1. ask them not to and then 2. stop answering the phone.

You can't. She needs to make that decision herself. You might try saying something like, "I dunno... maybe this is a girl issue?" or something.

You're a nice guy, Spooky. There's a point in relationships of any kind where being straight up with someone is healthier than just doing the "nicest" thing, you know? It's easiest to give people what they want, but it's not always best, is maybe a clearer way of saying that. Good luck.

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Dearest SpoOkY Joel:

I am probably the wrong person to be commenting, however I have gone through simular situ's only I have been the girlfriend. The only thing that has helped me is school as well as a very close friend. I am going into the human services. I think that alot of the issues we are learning about also bring up personal issues, which make it almost mandatory to work through our own issues. (Our being the other students in my class!)
If it is a relationship you want, and I think what I am hearing or seeing is that it is! I would strongly urge you to get this girl help! If you truely think you love her, and even if you are unsure I find it important and I cannot stress this enough I find it VERY IMPORTANT that you help her find help. Very often when we see something is out of place we are not easy to step up and help make change! Yet, we are always here for an emotional word or two, still we don't actively go out and help the person find resources! I know this cause I am guilty of this myself. In this day and age there are many resources out there dealing with many issues. On the net in the tele-directories, in our communities, schools and churches. Her choice in friends maybe wrong, but until she sees that and finds her own self worth, she will only attract like minded friends. Playing into the victim role is what we do! (by we I mean her and I as well) I know that I have choices however I am only trying to come out of this and because it works, I find I am still doing this with some of my relationships in my life, but I see it so there is hope for me!
Who knows maybe you are an emotional crutch! but at the same time, God has a plan and maybe it is to help her find the help she needs, maybe it is to learn something about yourself.
If she started to come out of depression, saying that she is infact depressed, she may find that she loves you for you and maybe just maybe she will find that she doesn't and vice versa.... but you won't know unless she makes active changes for herself. Remember "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" help her find the tools to heal herself and if she takes them great and if she doesn't then I am sure you know what should be done. If not "Sometimes the best medicine is to walk away" We choose certain people we need to learn lessons from, or people we need to teach lessons to. We are all attracted to like minded individuals.
If at anytime you feel like running away from something or someone that is the most important time to be there, to find out why it hurts or bothers you so. Unless of course they are being physical and it is really unhealthy of course lol!! silly to sit and ask why is so and so being physical with me!! So in a nut shell find her emotional support. There are counsellors who deal with many issues, hers included! Lastly having a counsellor is not a sign of weakness!! it is a sign of tremendous strenth! and self love!
Sincerely, Xui

P.S..... Thank-you Annie your two cents helped! I think I needed that! "not "the one" (at least right now)." maybe never but just the same thank-you mwah mwah mwah!!!!

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Xui Wan you aren't the wrong person at all, I appreciate your input

......well if my objective in helping her is to start a relationship then that's not cool, but if it's out of care for her then maybe, but if I find her help then i'm kind of partnering with her in it aren't i? In the very same conversation where I suggest she get help won't she just say i'd rather just talk to people I'm close to (i.e. me). Plus cause i'm involved she'll come to me and tell me all about the sessions.....ahhh it's tricky!

But then I will be that knight in shining armour you know......not somebody she genuinely cares for but rather somebody who helped her when nobody else would. Perhaps I could get somebody else to help her, maybe a friend of mine (girl) and her could become friends and then i'll ask her to help her

um I got a bit lost here. You're saying sometimes we need to just walk away? But also stay cause i could learn something?


I totally agree. Well yeah I study psychology and have had lots of friends who have gone for professional help when they really needed it and have seen the practical value of it. I just hope she can see it that way when i talk to her.......if i am in fact the one to find her help........or if my friend is.....

You sound exactly like a friend of mine. She always likes to deal with things head on. I can do that but prefer not to. It seems to be cooling off now, well I'm half-avoiding her for a bit. I'm really busy at the moment and she knows so I haven't seen her in a while. But I can't dance around the issue forever I know I'm hoping that if she gets some help from a counsellor or even a good female friend (which she doesn't seem to have but may meet one..... ) then a lot of things will sort themselves out.

I'm just gonna try to not reach out to her so much. What i mean by that is that when I call her at night that's a reach from my side, when she tells me personal stuff that's a reach from hers, when I asked her to dance at the ball (huge reach from me, bad Joel!! Only did that just the once), her continual keeness to do stuff just with me (reach from her) and so on. Hopefully my lingo makes sense. I'm gonna try this for a bit and if that doesn't work then for sure I'll have to have chat with her, which won't be nice, but it'll be necessary

Sounds good, J, and yeah your lingo makes perfect sense and it sounds like you're looking at things clearly. If she's getting the message without a "we need to talk" moment, then that's awesome. I never get the message that way, so I tend to go for the more obvious. lol Anyway, best of luck to you with this.

Stop looking at your motives and know in your heart that you are doing the right thing and do it!
If its a matter of you want a relationship with her whats so wrong with being the knight in shining armour???? if its the future you are both looking towards then whats so wrong with having a hero??? As long as you know that this is not the way things will be forever!!!! Who knows maybe some day she will be the stronger one to pull you out of a rut... And whats so wrong with alterior motives? you want your partner to be the strongest person they can be and if you helped attain that then great! Again you never know what the future holds!!! We worry too much about the little things. Be good to your neighbor and so forth! Why does it hafta be someone else to help her? Are you feeling a little guilty of your motives? I mean you like her she likes you maybe you both carry unhealthy characteristics??? However if you know they are unhealthy than you can make positive changes then huh? the first step in changing anything is recognizing that it needs to be changed.

I can be an advisor but until you get off your butt and do something about it then nothing will be done and you can do this little song and dance all ya want until you decide that "this is what Im going to do" and do it. Playing little doesn't serve anyone any good. if any of our advice fails then it is our fault for giving you the wrong advice... or is it? responsiblity for ones actions is the most important thing to realize! I cant make you do anythig and you cant make her do anything if she takes she takes! and yada yada yada!!!
I spose I was saying 2 different things there, like...

If you help her to get the help she needs and she doesnt take or help herself then maybe its time to re-evaluate what it is you want with this relationship!

and secondly if there are things with her that make you want to leave her maybe it is that you might hafta do some self reflecting on why it is the way it is... do you miss not being with her?

meh not such a great time for me to be giving advice lol but hey like my buddy always tells me SUCK IT UP PRINCESS!!! LoL i love him he's great for my ego!!! try this read...
Family Ties that Bind by Dr. Ronald W Richardson this book if done along side of a geneology... grr bothersome but for GOOD reason! unless you've had a perfect life heh!!!

No, Friends can find help for friends, without partnering

She may say that sometimes it is better to talk to someone who can look at her situation from a more objective view, friends will mostly say what people want to hear or be too emotionally involved to be objective.
Just to give you an example: many years ago 2 terrible things happened to me within months of each other. although I did talk to my hsb about them I consulted a counsellor. My Husband wanted to be my support, not my counsellor which can change the relationship. it worked for us, he was careing and loving and the counsellor counselled me. hope that makes sence.

There has been a lot of good advice given here so I won't repeat it

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Uh... just to present the other side of the coin on this...
Getting into a relationship with someone who cannot stand on their own two feet emotionally does not work. You can bend over backwards to help them, but they know that they're not an equal partner and come to either suspect something is wrong with you for going so far out of your way for them, or resenting you for their weakness - and in a way you're supporting their weakness by trying to play hero, and they're right to resent it.

If you can look at a person and see that they are not capable of a healthy relationship, then the only humane thing to do is back away, be their friend, but don't try to move it into waters where that person can't swim. Making someone reliant on you is not caring - it's creepy.

And getting into a relationship with someone in the hopes they'll change? Just don't.

That said, please notice the stress on being their friend. Running like a pair of cheap nylons is not cool when a friend needs help. Finding help for someone is a good thing. Encouraging them to take positive steps, also good. And Spooky, you seem to realise very clearly that you're in murky waters and to really care how all this comes out. It's good to see someone show so much compassion and concern.

Awesome post Sammy!

for sure it is creepy but for me i'm thinking more about the resenting and dependency part.

I totally agree but it's getting really hard because a few of my friends are being annoying about it, especially the girls. I asked them for advice and most of them keep pushing the 'just go for it' philisophy and see what happens. My closest friends understand but there is a kind of pressure building which isn't good at all. The one thing that helps........although this will sound weird is that she has been hiding parts of her life from me, which as they eventually come out they make me feel like I don't know her as well as I thought. This really helps break down the impossibly amazing picture i have formed in my mind of who she is.

I'm kind of confused on the nylons metaphor, it could be a 'lost in translation' thing cause I'm in Australia But I am definately going to make sure she gets some kind of help. I'm not sure if i'm the one to do it but I might have to be or it could get worse.

your a star sammy, thanks.

Hmm this ones a buit harder, i can see youre there for her and maybe that its all she needs for the moment. France will nog only be the chance for her to get out of the life shes in know and get to know other people and another culture. She should go, and while she is there you should talk to her a lot. Just letting her know you think about here and that when she comes back youll be there waiting, dying to hear all the stories and being there to laugh with her.

Being there for her is a bigger kind of love than being a lover sometimes, good friends are a rare gift. Finding them is hard, keeping there is what it is about. She's got you, and thats good, thats great. And yeah maybe she needs some kind of help, i do think so. There;s another job for you, being there for her, even if she has councilling and who else knows what. Its about you being there.

It IS about you being there. If you do, when you are there for her, she'll get her life back on track. That's the maincourse right now.

Good luck

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ooo I missed this post, thanks Veronica! She's not going to France anymore, well at least not straight away. Maybe in June next year.......yay! I know that's terribly selfish of me but she is a close friend of mine and I don't want her to go. Something has changed lately though. She's acting like everything is fine now. All the things that were depressing her so much don't seem to matter. It seems too good to be true, you can't go from feeling depressed and being angry at the world then completely backflip.....or can you? I want to believe you can but I can't help but believe she's pretending, for what reason I don't know. Maybe so I won't worry......maybe because she's talking it out with one of her close girl friends (which would be awesome!). So basically I'm waiting it out at the moment, but I'm doubtful that it's possible to suddenly have a kind of revelation and be happy! I hope it is true tho...

Time will tell

dude, 'sup. all i can say that you should distance yourself but don't make it obvious because sh'll be even worse. and if she actually asks anything of you, then just tell her that you're not in the same place as her. another thing you could do (some would say its kinda sad) is get a girlfriend and use her as an excuse. if have a real excuse to spend time awya from her then she qwont be to clingy.sorry if i havent been a real help but its all i can offer. hope it works out for you. all the best man. ivegot to go know cos ive got a class. send me a msg and let me know how it went. oeace and love to the world.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ah it's so weird reading old threads like this!!! Especially since that girl did end up having some serious depression issues, which fortunately i could direct her to help not be the sole source of her help. In fact she's overseas now for a whole year and i have a girlfriend of almost 1 year!!! So crazy to think about how i see the world now and how i saw it then.

I might have to save some of my old posts somewhere, cause it's kind of like a journal. Although maybe not this thread cause my special lady might feel weird about it. Fun to read though

WOW ... only just realised that this thread was 2 years ago.

I was going to suggest disussing your concerns about her depression and perhaps offering her support seeking professional counseling ... just recently went through a similar senario re. being concerned about a friend who was spending too much time in the darkness ... I was fully expecting to be told to F off but it resulted in him asked for help. Myself and another took an intervension approach and arranged appointments, took him there, paid for medication etc ... he is much better now and is continuing treatment

Anyway I guess the thing to do is address any concerns with friends who show symptoms rather than letting them wallow ... better to be wrong than having to ask yourself the "what if I had ..." question.

Anyway great that you are in the space that you are ... and that she did get the help she required.

Cheers

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