Las Vegas Attack 2017

Nice family. Not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web

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Yeah, that's pretty stupid, but who said that child predators were smart?
The more conniving ones are much better organized and use the dark web, where they are not so easily traced.
People buy so much illegal stuff there by using bit coin, a currency that's not easily detectable.
The last few years, Interpol has been focusing a lot on the dark web, cracking codes etc.

Yeah. It seems none of these brothers had a good childhood or a positive father-figure role model in their lives.

But it's difficult to connect any of this to the attack.
From what I understand, the family was very disconnected and Paddock's brothers hadn't had contact with each other in decades.
So motive remains a complete mystery at this point.

But would predation make an otherwise fairly intelligent man stupid (in the case of the TV show)?

I ask because guys caught on that show included a Dr., a Rabbi, school teachers, several military men and college students (among your redneck country bumpkins), i.e. guys who know the ways of the world and who would know that this was a trap, or, as I said, even if their mind rationalized that against all odds there was some slim chance it wasn't a trap, would it be worth destroying your entire life over? It's simple risk assessment. If I see a dollar bill blowing around the fast lane of a four lane highway with a 65 mph speed limit - should I try to go get it? Having a free dollar would be nice, but is it worth the risk of being crippled or killed?

And what Dr., Rabbi, teacher, soldier or college student would not think it's a trap? They think teens wait for their parents to go away to get on the web and invite gross, fat, middle aged, complete strangers that they've never met who are obvious pervs based on their chats to come to their parents' home to have sex with them??? Like some lonely teen is going to go for ugly fat old men rather than just go out and find another teen? It's laughable that anyone (except for maybe a mentally challenged person, and they had a few of those) would even entertain that thought, no less show up to be arrested for a felony.
Yet they did! (That's what I don't get.)

What's your definition of trap?

To Catch a Predator was a Sting operation.
It was very controversial in that the "victim" didn't exist and therefore no crime perpetrated against such could be committed within the scenario, yet most of the arrestees did hard time based entirely on their alleged intentions. Basically they were preventively sentenced based on their thoughts (very Minority Report kind of stuff).

(I actually made a thread about it to discuss...)
https://www.movieforums.com/communit...ad.php?t=48603

Thanks. Makes sense to me described that Wat. I thought you may have been asking if they allow themselves to be baited by the money grubbers or task force agents

Not too bright, are they. Nor are the non addicts what always try to claim they were just curious. Filth.

Just because they have good jobs and diplomas does not mean that they have common sense nor a high IQ.
The proof is in the pudding. Stupid is as stupid does!

FBI just confirmed that a hard drive was removed from Paddock's lap top found in shooter's hotel room. No one knows what happened to it.
They are about to release new information on Mandalay Bay security guard that was shot buy Paddock.

It's either going to be the Philippines or Guantanamo. Please don't say Mexico.

This just in. Jesus Campos crossed the border into Mexico by car ( San Yisidro ) , after shooting. Campos was not licensed to be a security guard by Nevada licensing. My guess is he had the missing hard drive. Now, it appears that the severity of his wound is questioned. Not as severe, if he had really been shot by an automatic rifle. Would not be able to dive himself to Mexico.

From victim to accomplice? FBI better get their stuff together. Matter of fact, DOJ should investigate this. Something is definitely going on with the FBI. This has all the ingredients of a rouge element within agency.

How the hell do you allow your key witness to leave the country?

None of this really makes sense and someone, or someones are/ have destroyed or hidden evidence. No idea where the security guard comes in and so much speculation is going around it dilutes the truth of what happened. I think this is on purpose, but I also think that one way of getting around the obstacle of getting all those guns in would be to have an inside guy i.e. security guard in the loop. Not saying this happened and not saying this Jesus guy did anything at all, but he is not saying everything he knows - whether he is being paid, or hiding something, or threatened I have no idea, but its so shady it boggles the mind.

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Interesting because there were stories (in online magazines and YouTube reports) about a week or so after the attack saying Campos was indicted as an accomplice and had been taken into custody. The stories were later denied or debunked (before his resurfacing on the Ellen show).

The "fact" that no one can find Campos' name on the MGM employee database or on a Security database in Las Vegas (which lists all people working as Security guards) has existed from the beginning.

Two things here that are very disturbing:
The fact that Campos was allowed to leave the country and go to Mexico, just a few days after the shooting. He was the principal material witness and a possible accomplice.
The fact that the hard drive was removed for Paddock's lap top, found at crime scene.
The hard drive has not been located.
Why did Campos go to Mexico. Is it to deliver the hard drive to persons unknown?
The removal of hard drive indicates that there was incriminating evidence there.
A possible contact and accomplice to shooting, that probably does not want identity revealed or wants it revealed on his own terms, probably as proof for some future attacks, demands or hostage negotiations.
The Lone Wolf theory gets slimmer by the minute.

This morning I was surprised to see a short news blurb about Las Vegas on Fox.

They had a survivor who lost a friend at the concert speaking out and asking why there is no more information and why the authorities and media have gone silent.

Fox reiterated that the lack of information leaves a void open to conspiracy theories, but that the authorities say no conspiracy theories are true. And of course, they reported that the authorities warn, in regards to the truth, "We may never know."

What troubles me is the authorities still are in no way addressing so many things that don't fall under the "conspiracy umbrella" - they are things that, in and of themselves, are just accounts and simple questions that remain completely unaddressed with not even the slightest attempt at an explanation...

• Like the contradictory timeline,
• Newly revealed facts that cops were outside the hotel room after Campos was shot but before the shooting of the concert,
• The Campos / Mexico / Injuries / Doctored photos / Timeline contradiction / Ellen fiasco,
• The discrepancy questions regarding the hotel room numbers & occupancy (an Australian man claims he occupied the room next to Paddock's that had a window broken out of it for a gun stand),
• The many police and dispatch recordings of multiple shooters at multiple locations before, during and after the massacre,
• Where exactly is all the security camera and cell phone recordings?
• Why are people claiming their cell phones found or confiscated at the scene were "scrubbed"?
• The airport radar, unaccountable helicopter activity, and audio recordings of Air Traffic Controllers regarding shooters on the tarmac,
• The gunfire audio analyses by professionals indicating multiple types of firearms being fired simultaneously,
• The activity in and outside of the Hooters Hotel & Casino,
• The various figures inadvertently filmed on tops of trailers at the concert,
• The eye-witness testimony that casino employees were instructed not to reveal the scope of what happened at other hotels,
• How or why was Paddock's home (a major crime scene of evidence) allowed to be broken into a week after the shooting, and was evidence tampered with or taken?
• How did the authorities immediately conclude Paddock had no contacts when, 3 weeks after the shooting, they admit the hard drive to his computer was missing?
• And the rising claims by eye witnesses that there were shooters at other hotels up to 4 miles away and an hour and a half after Paddock was allegedly dead.

These aren't "conspiracies" - they are eye-witness accounts. The witnesses aren't saying, "Oh, we have this complicated theory of what actually happened and who the conspirators were," they are simply giving their accounts of what they heard and saw.

So people who were there say, "We were being fired at from multiple directions with bullets still being fired at us even long after we ran; We were herded into oncoming gunfire with bullets still flying when we got a quarter mile away; There were shooters at other hotels that we ran to. We saw dead bodies on the floors of hotels, dozens of bodies being removed from hotels; We saw fronts of hotels blasted apart by gunfire with glass everywhere; We heard gunfire as we exited a show, were forced to flee and told by staff to take shelter - it was well after 11:00 pm (an hour after the concert massacre)" those aren't conspiracy theories - those are eye witness accounts.

Okay, let's give the authorities the benefit of the doubt that the conspiracies are not true - how does that in any way answer, explain or refute all these accounts, recordings, things caught on film, inconsistencies, questions, etc.? What's their explanation? Mass hysteria, fog of war, mis-identifications, lies by witnesses?

If so, they need to come out and address it, don't just say you KNOW Paddock acted alone, you don't know why and you're desperate that everyone else accept the idea that "We may never know." That's just too disturbingly obvious a non-answer in the face of so many accounts and questions that we know there are answers to.

No those are definitely conspiracy theories. Some understandable and others patently absurd. For sure investigators are going to need to release a full account of what happened to the best of their knowledge at some point. But remember it took months for that to happen in Columbine and Sandy Hook. Most of a year I think. Maybe longer. And those were simpler crime scenes. So Ill give them more time to figure this all out but I agree the public is going to need a reasonable explanation and the best second by second event sequence they can determine. And a motive would be nice. But that motive may not satisfy the conspiracy junkies if they can determine one at all.

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You really shouldn't watch Fox news. Just sayin. Most of that stuff you're talking about Steel are leads. You really think the conspiracy runs so deep that the police aren't running those things down? Pretty sure they already have. I bet they even still have press conferences that you could actually watch and get it from the detectives themselves. I've watched a few of them myself. They are dry and pretty boring. Its much more exciting to engage in conspiracy theories. Hence FOX news and their never ending BS.

I think there's a chance that we get to see some video from inside the casino... I think there's a better chance we'll see Trump's tax return first... maybe. But it's probably not gonna happen. Even if there were some kind of court order I doubt you'd see the real tapes. This was a massive blow for that casino and its gonna take some serious sh*t to get them to help out with the investigation. In a way, the conspiracy theory guys might be a little right. I think there's a pretty good chance that not just Campos was helping this guy. But not the way the theorists think. I think they helped him bring all that sh*t to his room because they always helped him bring sh*t to his room. He was a relative high roller and seemingly had the run of the place. But the hotel can't just come out and say that. So... conspiracy theory.

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How are eye-witness accounts of personal experiences conspiracy theories?
(Sure, those accounts can be USED to support various conspiracy theories, but in and of themselves are simply claims as to what certain individuals say they heard & saw.)

Now if an eyewitness said, "I got shot at by a guy on the ground wearing a black mask, but dressed as a cop - therefore I know they were assassins posing as cops who were all in league with ISIS, out to murder a Saudi Prince in a gun-running sting operation with the FBI who set Paddock up as a patsy and it was all organized by Antifa for the purpose of a leftist gun grab that would lead to an ultimate overthrow of the government by anarchists!" THAT would be a conspiracy theory.

But as I said, eyewitnesses who were there are giving their accounts of what they experienced first hand - and some of those accounts include the things I outlined.

So those are not conspiracy theories (unless, of course, you think those witnesses are "crisis actors" paid to give false accounts to further some agenda)... but, of course, THAT would be a conspiracy theory.