Who Will be Our Next President?

That's another thing I actually agree with you on. People keep saying "230,000" deaths, but even if they thought Biden could have done better, how much lower do you think it could realistically have been? I think as you say due to the demographics and health factors of Americans, combined with people's far greater propensity towards liberty more than other countries around the world, that there was always inevitably going to be a large number of deaths. In terms of deaths per population. Deaths per capita are not astronomically high and there are countries doing worse where arguments can be made that it should be easier to control.

However, I do think Trump has acted with very little class and decorum around the issue though, regardless of effectiveness I think his cavalier language has been offensive given the very real danger and impact of the virus. Whatever his intentions, comments about masks, his vendetta with Fauci, the way he acted like Superman when he recovered which to me felt demeaning towards others who have been more negatively impacted by it.

Those are the type of things that bothered me personally, but when I see "230,000 deaths on your hands" or whatever it's just a political tactic with very little meaning beyond the slogan. If it was the other way around around Republicans were shouting "150,000 deaths on your hands" at a Democrat leader they would rightfully be fighting annoyed and fight back at it.

You know how he used to say the vaccine would be ready at such and such a time, usually a seemingly ridiculous date that was unattainable? If you think about it, this is actually something that could save thousands of lives.

I should explain what I mean by this. Trump is a businessman, and I'm going to paint you a scenario and tactic that I guarantee that he's used.

Let's say he has a new building going up.

Trump: When will the property be completed and ready to go?

Contractor: January 1st

Trump: That's not good enough, I need it done August 1st.

Contractor: It's not possible.

Trump: Anything is possible, get it done.

Maybe it's not done August 1st, but maybe it's done October 1st, 3 months ahead of schedule.

Now replace the property with a vaccine. He's been naming these companies publicly and putting a lot of pressure on them. Under extreme pressure, people can accomplish things they never dreamt of. What would Joe say? Well man they're working on it and doing the best they can. There's nothing more important for saving lives than the vaccine. Don't rule out the possibility that Trump could be responsible for saving hundreds of thousands of lives, especially when a vaccine can help the entire world.

I would be curious as to which Trump lies are the most harmful and make him more dishonest than the average politician. In some ways he is brutally honest, maybe too honest with how he sticks the America first theme in everyone's face.

I'm also sincere when I say some lies are necessary, and I equate them to sports lies. I remember one time he was talking about China and a reporter asked him what he was going to do. Normally he or another politician would just lie to avoid making waves. This particular time he just said you know you'd be the last person on earth I'd tell. I got a kick out of it. Anyway, I'm wondering about what harmful lies he tells when he could simply tell the truth. I'm not saying it's never happened, I'm just curious.

Unfortunately, the contractor usually knows more about the labor involved in performing a task than the client demanding it because the contractor does this type of work daily. Sure, there is a buffer in place, sometimes, to accommodate that "what if?" factor and things do not go smoothly, but that's not something that should be assumed 100% of the time. IF deadlines are shortened, then something must be removed from the development workflow. That must be taken from planning, development, quality control, testing, safety standards, or whatever. Something of that list (or all of the above) gets reduced as lower priority to the deadline. People are people, and people get tired, stressed, and rattled and that all can lead to a poorer product, if not a poor product missing something that might have been caught had a more realistic timeline had been established. People must cut corners in this situation.

In my experience, "business men" care more about controlling things and proving others wrong than they do about quality or the actual results of the effort.

That's not to undermine pressure completely. I don't mean to stand with a one side or the other posture. But this is what happens and it needs to be represented in any argument like that.

Yeah, I am 100% not talking about just being blunt or brash (though it's too easy to say "brash" about someone who's really just being awful, and we shouldn't pretend how the President talks doesn't have a significant effect on civility).

I don't wanna hijack this thread but I can send you some privately or something. I'm pretty serious about this. But I wanna say, preemptively, that "most harmful" sounds like it could end up being a bit of an escape hatch here. I'd argue that lying very brazenly over and over is pretty harmful, for example. It's not just about the claim, it's about its proximity to the truth. If you say something very harsh and it is misleading, that's bad, but I'm not sure it's worse than something pretty harsh that is clearly 100% false, and can't even really be spun into maybe-sorta true. Both bad, but for different reasons. And we have a staggering number of examples of that.

I get you and at this point I don't trust either side or the media to tell the truth. What I'm most concerned with is the effect of the lie. Are people intentionally lying and some harm is the direct result. I gave an example of lies coming from the Democrats that are harmful and if Trump does or did it I'd be equally as critical.

Hire more people?

You are vile.

Accuracy matters more than speed, since we all just want a result faster but don't need one.

Americans~

America's greatest export is speed, so anytime we take longer than a hot minute to do something people get funny. I can only imagine what it must be like for an outsider looking in.