Talking to My Doctors...

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will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
You sound pretty coherent to me. You've been typing out long paragraphs also. I am not saying you shouldn't try to find with your doctors a dose and mixture that you feel makes you more functional, but you seem to be based on what you are posting here to be on a pretty operable level.
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- Paula



If you want to achieve greatness, stop asking for permission
Hey DSM,

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. It's a frustrating situation, and I totally feel for you. When I was 15, I was inaccurately diagnosed with bipolar disorder. At the time, I didn't know I was misdiagnosed - I just assumed it to be true. The psychiatrist prescribed me Depakote, which is an anti-seizure/anti-mania medication. I was popping those pills for 2 years and I did not notice anything different. I decided to switch up my doctors (both the psychologist and the psychiatrist) and it turns out, I was nowhere near having bipolar disorder. Taking Depakote for those 2 years really set me back.

The next psychiatrist diagnosed me with Dysthymia (just a fancy word for chronic depression) and PTSD. He prescribed me with Zoloft. So I started on the Zoloft, and after 9 months I didn't notice a change. Tossed the Zoloft, found another doc. So here we go, with doctor #3 who diagnosed me with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Atypical Depression. This one prescribed me with Lexapro. And guess what? 1 year into the pills and I still don't feel like I've been given the right med.

Now, I'm med-free. I'm so scared to get misdiagnosed again, although I would like to be on the RIGHT medication. It's so difficult to find the right doctor and the right solution. I should be going to talk therapy since I'm not on meds, but I don't have the time or motivation

I hope you are able to get the treatment you need, DSM. I wish you the best of luck, and I appreciate you sharing your story
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"If we choose, we can live in a world of comforting illusion."
- Christopher Nolan



A couple years ago a close friend of mine had his first psychotic breakdown while we were hanging out. A few months after that he was institutionalized in Madrid while he was doing the programing for a large digital art installation, resulting in a long series of consultations with doctors, diagnoses and medications (including lithium and I believe rispordal). He spent several months fairly depressed due to being heavily medicated to the point of being "zombified", and not able to function creatively or focus on abstract ideas for long periods. It happened again last summer and he was institutionalized twice more (the second time voluntary) while his doctor tried to fix the proper meds and dosages to keep his bipolar swings from going too far in either direction (as you put it "they felt it was so critical that they needed to shut [his] system down in order for [him] to be somewhat functional.")

The trade-off is similar to what you described in that it stops or dampens his hallucinations and psychotic thoughts and schemes (thinking he can control space in time, read people's minds, or that it's a good idea to try and befriend/manipulate the drug dealers down the street who mugged him, and so on...), but makes it hard for him to think clearly or creatively for any length of time. He has told me that he thinks he's going to have to eventually have more psychotic episodes in the future, and that as unpleasant as some of the meds are, it's better to have to partially shut down his mind for the slow months of recovery that each breakdown seems to presage, than to go completely over the edge into his fantasies. It's also important that each time he also has his wife and family to mediate with the doctor for him when the medication is slowing down his mind too much as well. I will also say that both of his breakdowns so far have been relatively temporary - a matter of at most a couple months.

Having been with him when he's at his most manic as well as in the medication-induced depressions, I would say that the important difference is that when not on the meds he really thinks he can do anything and is potentially a threat to himself and others, while being medicated his judgment basically is improved to the extent that he knows it's dangerous to act on his impulses. A good example is, when I visited him at the Columbia University Hospital psychiatric ward last summer he told me he really didn't trust his wife because she seemed disinterested or resentful of him, when in fact (as he later realized) she was just trying to hold her ***** together while spending days and sleepless nights filling out paper work, asking questions and relaying his problems and successes on different medications to his doctor. I would say the big benefit of being "shut down" is that it made him slow down and wait before indulging the paranoia about his wife or megalomaniacal faith in his abilities abilitie,s and taking some drastic step that could have made it far harder to recover.



At one point when I was a teenager I thought that the women of the world were devising a plan to commit a holocaust to men, in response I bought a plane ticket to Philadelphia that I couldn't afford because I thought there was an underground "Men's Movement" that would counteract their actions. Even as I reflect, I don't remember why I thought this. All I know is I spent money on an non-refundable plane flight and shortly thereafter I had to be admitted to a mental hospital.
I really, really wonder about exactly how you came to these conclusions that you felt passionate enough to go buy a plane ticket to find this underground movement. Do you hear things or read things that give you an idea - and, unlike other people, you take the idea very, very far to the point that you are just sorta extremely naive and you go and do things without any rationalization at all? Is that what it all is? I also wonder about where the idea of the specters around your friend's house came from. But I think I totally understand if they just seem to come out of nowhere, from your head. I want to say more, but I think I'll PM you.

By the way, I love the men's movement. Robert Bly, Sam Keen... I've read their books. I dunno how strong the men's movement actually is right now, but I totally support it. I don't like mentioning that in connection with schizophrenic ideas about it, but if I was that delusional, I would probably hop a plane to this underground meeting, too. There might be hot guys there.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
I really, really wonder about exactly how you came to these conclusions that you felt passionate enough to go buy a plane ticket to find this underground movement. Do you hear things or read things that givBy the way, I love the men's movement. Robert Bly, Sam Keen... I've read their books. I dunno how strong the men's movement actually is right now, but I totally support it. I don't like mentioning that in connection with schizophrenic ideas about it, but if I was that delusional, I would probably hop a plane to this underground meeting, too. There might be hot guys there.
The guys that rant about castrating, evil women are not hot guys.



The guys that rant about castrating, evil women are not hot guys.
They might be physically. I imagine there would probably be skinheads and punks.



Oooooh, look at those suspenders.

Why am I talking about this? I'm continuing somebody's schizophrenic delusion that put them in a mental hospital.



Alright, alright, let's not troll. We start putting up pictures and it might give others ideas.



You sound pretty coherent to me. You've been typing out long paragraphs also. I am not saying you shouldn't try to find with your doctors a dose and mixture that you feel makes you more functional, but you seem to be based on what you are posting here to be on a pretty operable level.
I am able to put two and two together, but that still doesn't mean I feel like I've lost creativity or passions to do the things I love doing.

Hey DSM,

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. It's a frustrating situation, and I totally feel for you. When I was 15, I was inaccurately diagnosed with bipolar disorder. At the time, I didn't know I was misdiagnosed - I just assumed it to be true. The psychiatrist prescribed me Depakote, which is an anti-seizure/anti-mania medication. I was popping those pills for 2 years and I did not notice anything different. I decided to switch up my doctors (both the psychologist and the psychiatrist) and it turns out, I was nowhere near having bipolar disorder. Taking Depakote for those 2 years really set me back.

The next psychiatrist diagnosed me with Dysthymia (just a fancy word for chronic depression) and PTSD. He prescribed me with Zoloft. So I started on the Zoloft, and after 9 months I didn't notice a change. Tossed the Zoloft, found another doc. So here we go, with doctor #3 who diagnosed me with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Atypical Depression. This one prescribed me with Lexapro. And guess what? 1 year into the pills and I still don't feel like I've been given the right med.

Now, I'm med-free. I'm so scared to get misdiagnosed again, although I would like to be on the RIGHT medication. It's so difficult to find the right doctor and the right solution. I should be going to talk therapy since I'm not on meds, but I don't have the time or motivation

I hope you are able to get the treatment you need, DSM. I wish you the best of luck, and I appreciate you sharing your story
I'm dreadfully sorry to hear about this, Film Girl, and I thank you for your concern, if you ever need a shoulder you to can come to me sometime.

A couple years ago a close friend of mine had his first psychotic breakdown while we were hanging out. A few months after that he was institutionalized in Madrid while he was doing the programing for a large digital art installation, resulting in a long series of consultations with doctors, diagnoses and medications (including lithium and I believe rispordal). He spent several months fairly depressed due to being heavily medicated to the point of being "zombified", and not able to function creatively or focus on abstract ideas for long periods. It happened again last summer and he was institutionalized twice more (the second time voluntary) while his doctor tried to fix the proper meds and dosages to keep his bipolar swings from going too far in either direction (as you put it "they felt it was so critical that they needed to shut [his] system down in order for [him] to be somewhat functional.")

The trade-off is similar to what you described in that it stops or dampens his hallucinations and psychotic thoughts and schemes (thinking he can control space in time, read people's minds, or that it's a good idea to try and befriend/manipulate the drug dealers down the street who mugged him, and so on...), but makes it hard for him to think clearly or creatively for any length of time. He has told me that he thinks he's going to have to eventually have more psychotic episodes in the future, and that as unpleasant as some of the meds are, it's better to have to partially shut down his mind for the slow months of recovery that each breakdown seems to presage, than to go completely over the edge into his fantasies. It's also important that each time he also has his wife and family to mediate with the doctor for him when the medication is slowing down his mind too much as well. I will also say that both of his breakdowns so far have been relatively temporary - a matter of at most a couple months.

Having been with him when he's at his most manic as well as in the medication-induced depressions, I would say that the important difference is that when not on the meds he really thinks he can do anything and is potentially a threat to himself and others, while being medicated his judgment basically is improved to the extent that he knows it's dangerous to act on his impulses. A good example is, when I visited him at the Columbia University Hospital psychiatric ward last summer he told me he really didn't trust his wife because she seemed disinterested or resentful of him, when in fact (as he later realized) she was just trying to hold her ***** together while spending days and sleepless nights filling out paper work, asking questions and relaying his problems and successes on different medications to his doctor. I would say the big benefit of being "shut down" is that it made him slow down and wait before indulging the paranoia about his wife or megalomaniacal faith in his abilities abilitie,s and taking some drastic step that could have made it far harder to recover.
Did they ever lower his dosage? If so, how did he recover? Maybe knowing this I can feel stronger about my situation.

I really, really wonder about exactly how you came to these conclusions that you felt passionate enough to go buy a plane ticket to find this underground movement. Do you hear things or read things that give you an idea - and, unlike other people, you take the idea very, very far to the point that you are just sorta extremely naive and you go and do things without any rationalization at all? Is that what it all is? I also wonder about where the idea of the specters around your friend's house came from. But I think I totally understand if they just seem to come out of nowhere, from your head. I want to say more, but I think I'll PM you.
Have you ever seen A Beautiful Mind? It's kind of like that to some degree. You start picking out messages and specific words from people and incorrectly assuming they are part of a "grander plan". In this case the "grand plan" was male genocide, but how I arrived there was something I don't even fully recall myself because connecting all the dots seemed to random and arbitrary now. It doesn't make any sense in hindsight. As for seeing/hearing specters, it comes if you haven't slept for days. Hallucinations start kicking in at some point, and they're concrete enough for you to believe they are real.


The other thing I must ask of you SC, (and I think you've caught on so thank you in advance), but you and Will should stop making light of this I think. Its a very serious matter right now and my overall health is being affected. I think you gathered that from your last post, so thank you for not trolling here anymore.
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Imagine an eye unruled by man-made laws of perspective, an eye unprejudiced by compositional logic, an eye which does not respond to the name of everything but which must know each object encountered in life through an adventure of perception. How many colors are there in a field of grass to the crawling baby unaware of 'Green'?

-Stan Brakhage



I'm just gonna nod in agreement like Nebbit instead of getting angry over the fact that I think Will did it more instead of me. Although, to be honest, I thought of making light of it even more, but I restrained myself. So, no, I'm not gonna treat this like it isn't serious. It's brave of you to admit all of this here. I dunno if I could. I wondered if maybe it would have been wise if you hadn't made all this public, or just PM'ed Nebbit and asked for advice or something. Okay, I'm probably being too silly with the smilies.



Hey DSM,

Really sorry to hear of your troubles man. I am curious, what level of medication were you on when you made these?:

&feature=player_embedded

&feature=player_embedded

Your film making is incredible, and some of the theorems you presented in that thread are some of the most original, creative ideas I have heard involving amateur filmaking.

If you are interested, to get the creative juices flowing, I will do a collaboration with you. I need to get the camera out again. We can come up with a subject and film our perspective. Sometimes you just need a project. Maybe something small can get your mind right.
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If I had a dollar for every existential crisis I've ever had, does money really even matter?



I was on a much lower dose when I made those, and most of the theorems I made I made while not being on them at all. I talked to my doctors yesterday, and I think they are going to be working with cutting me back. So in response to your second question, I'd be interested in a few weeks perhaps, what's the project?



Did they ever lower his dosage? If so, how did he recover? Maybe knowing this I can feel stronger about my situation.
Yes, they've lowered the dosages at least once already, and are probably going to lower them again soon. When I saw him a couple weeks ago he was doing much better than over the summer when I visited him in the hospital and at his parents home (while he was heavily medicated). He's able to work but still taking it somewhat easy. Teaching a programming class and making some stuff for fun but not taking many freelance jobs at the moment, whereas normally he's a workaholic.



I was on a much lower dose when I made those, and most of the theorems I made I made while not being on them at all. I talked to my doctors yesterday, and I think they are going to be working with cutting me back. So in response to your second question, I'd be interested in a few weeks perhaps, what's the project?
I don't have an idea yet, other than I think it would be interesting to pick a theme and film something short based on our interpretation of the theme. We could even open the idea up to the entire forum. Any ideas?



Yes, they've lowered the dosages at least once already, and are probably going to lower them again soon. When I saw him a couple weeks ago he was doing much better than over the summer when I visited him in the hospital and at his parents home (while he was heavily medicated). He's able to work but still taking it somewhat easy. Teaching a programming class and making some stuff for fun but not taking many freelance jobs at the moment, whereas normally he's a workaholic.
The doctors have now begun to lower my dosage again. And I must stress it feels like my mind is coming back to me. I'm starting to feel creative and functional again now after a few days of it. Thank you for giving me hope during this rough patch. You're a true friend.

I don't have an idea yet, other than I think it would be interesting to pick a theme and film something short based on our interpretation of the theme. We could even open the idea up to the entire forum. Any ideas?
I have a few, but I'll designate it to its own thread how about that?

How about a catch-22?
I know this is a joke, but it's got me thinking of a higher cinematic question of "How does one film the aesthetics of allusions and paradoxes?" My mind seems to be coming back to me now. I can't give a direct answer now, but the question becomes proposed in which I'm hard pressed once my mind returns to answer in full. "The Aesthetics of Allusions and Paradoxes"... I believe I'll write an essay/theorem on that soon.