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Cool. I was just going to ask you how you felt about some of the elements in comparison. You should see it though. I have seen it three or four times, it is excellent.
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I've got four left now:
Ordet
Le Trou
Bullets Over Broadway
Quills
Then the two rewatched of Wizard of Oz and Unforgiven
Ordet
Le Trou
Bullets Over Broadway
Quills
Then the two rewatched of Wizard of Oz and Unforgiven
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Cool. I was just going to ask you how you felt about some of the elements in comparison. You should see it though. I have seen it three or four times, it is excellent.
Have you seen Ripley's Game, Seanc?
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Godoggo, have you seen The American Friend? That's another Ripley movie and it's also very good.
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I watched Le Trou last night and it's very good. I'm really surprised I haven't seen this on more lists of classic films. Astonishing how fascinating watching people break up rock or file an iron bar can be. I really liked that it didn't have a soundtrack other than the sounds that would naturally be occurring in the scenes, no music or sounds designed to build tension - and it was all the more tense for it. Raul said The Wages of Fear would win if this was a contest for the most tense film, but I think Le Trou would give it a run for its money. It's very well shot, and although you could say that there is a lot left undeveloped in terms of the characters, I thought that having a little ambiguity over their motivations and backgrounds actually helped the film. I did absolutely find myself rooting for them to escape, even though we don't know what they're in prison for - perhaps if we knew, we'd think they deserved to be there. All five of them were distinct personalities. Gaspard, who we know the most about, is also ambiguous. I think the audience are inclined to sympathise with him, but that he's able to charm others into sympathy is a character trait - he manages it with the governor, after all. Perhaps he isn't telling the truth when he says he didn't try to shoot his wife after all. 1960 was certainly a good year for films.
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Claire’s Knee
a film by Eric Rohmer (1970)
Writing up my thoughts on this film has proved very difficult for me. It is of The French New Wave cycle of films which, when they were released were of a genre that I consciously rejected at the time. It was what would be described as “An Art House Film.”
The other difficulty is my own reaction to it, which is one of one of disliking the characters and their motivations. So many film critics rate this film so highly that I feel like the boy in The Emperor Has No Clothes – what am I missing?
The film is the fifth in a cycle of 6 films called 6 Moral Tales, so it must most properly be placed in the context of five other films, but, for the purpose of the HOF, must be viewed as a separate organic film.
The “Moral” in this cycle refers to, in this case, Jerome’s ‘moral’ or his ‘code of conduct’ which he envisions for himself. It is a highly literate film composed of dialog and self-analyzing of the characters thoughts and actions as opposed to a traditionally narrative style.
Jerome is a career French diplomat – ‘a cultural attaché of some kind. He is on vacation in a lake district near Switzerland where he meets an old friend, Aurora, a novelist whom he may have had a romantic attachment to, sometime in the past.
He is a self-proclaimed womanizer who no longer finds women all that interesting anymore and is about to be married to a woman who he has had an on-again, off-again affair with but has decided that he can live with her because they like each other. But it is clear that all passion has gone out of the relationship – it is simply a marriage of convenience.
Aurora has an idea of using Jerome as a guinea pig to test his reactions so she can mine them for story ideas and she tempts him with having an affair with the young teenage daughter of her Landlady, Laura, a young schoolgirl who has a flirty schoolgirl crush on Jerome.
They go off on a hiking trip in the mountains, but there really is no temptation to be serious about any relationship. Jerome relates to Aurora that he had to will himself just to kiss Laura, and nothing proceeds along these lines.
In many ways Laura is the most mature of all the characters in this film. She knows she is young but is inexperienced in matters of love and romance, she knows what she thinks about boys and older men, but is wise enough not to rush headlong in to any relationship, but to enjoy her youth and friends and her love of simply being alive.
Then Jerome meets Claire, Laura’s older half-sister and he becomes enamored of all things, Claire’s knee when he see her picking grapes with her boyfriend, Gilles. Her knee is symbol of Jerome’s ability to possess any woman he desires. For some women it might be the nape of her neck, or some other portion of her anatomy, but for Claire, it is her knee and he is infatuated by the temptation.
He has seen Gilles kissing another girl from afar, but he really knows nothing of the context of this kiss, but he can manipulate Claire’s feelings with this knowledge. He offers to take Claire across the lake in his boat, knowing a change in the weather will force them to take shelter alone together where he tells Claire of the scene he has viewed of Gilles kissing another girl. She is vulnerable and hurt and she allows him to caress her knee as a gesture of consolation. But for Jerome it is a moment of highly charged erotic emotions. This gesture of touching Claire’s Knee is his way of possessing her, of making her into a fully realized woman. It is a highly charged and idealized rape scene.
Jerome’s character is one of supreme arrogance and hubris, he really cares nothing for Claire or any woman really. He exists solely for his own pleasure and satisfaction. He tells her to get rid of Gilles, that she is too good for him, but it is doubtful she even hears him since the last scene is of her sitting with Gilles her boyfriend.
There are elements of cultural differences in this film which I found distasteful. All these characters belong to what can only be called upper bourgeoisie society, it is a French film after all, they are definitely not working class and their ideals and values are those I do not relate to. Having said all that I can see (I watched the film twice) that is a powerful film in its own right. I don’t have to like or admire Jerome’s ‘moral code’, but he is true to it within himself and there are certainly others of the male species that think and act like him.
IMO this is not the best of the New Wave films, but is better than my initial dislike of such films back in the 70’s.
a film by Eric Rohmer (1970)
Writing up my thoughts on this film has proved very difficult for me. It is of The French New Wave cycle of films which, when they were released were of a genre that I consciously rejected at the time. It was what would be described as “An Art House Film.”
The other difficulty is my own reaction to it, which is one of one of disliking the characters and their motivations. So many film critics rate this film so highly that I feel like the boy in The Emperor Has No Clothes – what am I missing?
The film is the fifth in a cycle of 6 films called 6 Moral Tales, so it must most properly be placed in the context of five other films, but, for the purpose of the HOF, must be viewed as a separate organic film.
The “Moral” in this cycle refers to, in this case, Jerome’s ‘moral’ or his ‘code of conduct’ which he envisions for himself. It is a highly literate film composed of dialog and self-analyzing of the characters thoughts and actions as opposed to a traditionally narrative style.
Jerome is a career French diplomat – ‘a cultural attaché of some kind. He is on vacation in a lake district near Switzerland where he meets an old friend, Aurora, a novelist whom he may have had a romantic attachment to, sometime in the past.
He is a self-proclaimed womanizer who no longer finds women all that interesting anymore and is about to be married to a woman who he has had an on-again, off-again affair with but has decided that he can live with her because they like each other. But it is clear that all passion has gone out of the relationship – it is simply a marriage of convenience.
Aurora has an idea of using Jerome as a guinea pig to test his reactions so she can mine them for story ideas and she tempts him with having an affair with the young teenage daughter of her Landlady, Laura, a young schoolgirl who has a flirty schoolgirl crush on Jerome.
They go off on a hiking trip in the mountains, but there really is no temptation to be serious about any relationship. Jerome relates to Aurora that he had to will himself just to kiss Laura, and nothing proceeds along these lines.
In many ways Laura is the most mature of all the characters in this film. She knows she is young but is inexperienced in matters of love and romance, she knows what she thinks about boys and older men, but is wise enough not to rush headlong in to any relationship, but to enjoy her youth and friends and her love of simply being alive.
Then Jerome meets Claire, Laura’s older half-sister and he becomes enamored of all things, Claire’s knee when he see her picking grapes with her boyfriend, Gilles. Her knee is symbol of Jerome’s ability to possess any woman he desires. For some women it might be the nape of her neck, or some other portion of her anatomy, but for Claire, it is her knee and he is infatuated by the temptation.
He has seen Gilles kissing another girl from afar, but he really knows nothing of the context of this kiss, but he can manipulate Claire’s feelings with this knowledge. He offers to take Claire across the lake in his boat, knowing a change in the weather will force them to take shelter alone together where he tells Claire of the scene he has viewed of Gilles kissing another girl. She is vulnerable and hurt and she allows him to caress her knee as a gesture of consolation. But for Jerome it is a moment of highly charged erotic emotions. This gesture of touching Claire’s Knee is his way of possessing her, of making her into a fully realized woman. It is a highly charged and idealized rape scene.
Jerome’s character is one of supreme arrogance and hubris, he really cares nothing for Claire or any woman really. He exists solely for his own pleasure and satisfaction. He tells her to get rid of Gilles, that she is too good for him, but it is doubtful she even hears him since the last scene is of her sitting with Gilles her boyfriend.
There are elements of cultural differences in this film which I found distasteful. All these characters belong to what can only be called upper bourgeoisie society, it is a French film after all, they are definitely not working class and their ideals and values are those I do not relate to. Having said all that I can see (I watched the film twice) that is a powerful film in its own right. I don’t have to like or admire Jerome’s ‘moral code’, but he is true to it within himself and there are certainly others of the male species that think and act like him.
IMO this is not the best of the New Wave films, but is better than my initial dislike of such films back in the 70’s.
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You have to think like a hero merely to behave like a decent human being.
You have to think like a hero merely to behave like a decent human being.
Last edited by Erasmus Folly; 11-06-14 at 06:25 PM.
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Nice write up Erasmus. I'm glad you at least somewhat enjoyed it.
Quills will more than likely be my watch for today.
Quills will more than likely be my watch for today.
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Quills will more than likely be my watch for today.
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I've watched Ordet for the second time, and for the second time I feel like I've just experienced a masterpiece of cinema. I don't know how to describe it really, but it feels not like I watched a movie, but as if I was there living in the film. Dreyer found a way to suck me in, and he just wouldn't let me leave. I've experienced this same feeling only a few times from other pieces of art, sometimes in unexpected places. I can't explain it, but I feel the same way when I listen to "Video Games" by Lana Del Rey. I know, I know, these two things couldn't be any further separated. I can't really make sense of it though, I guess it's more of a visceral reaction. It's almost like I'm in a lucid dream when I watch Ordet.
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Don't read this if you haven't seen the film yet!
Well, we lucked out.
Quills
I agree with the explanation that this film is not all about sex, it is about words and writings as a whole just as much. What kept me glued to the film was the fact that four main acting pieces all brought their A game, and any time something like that happens it cannot go unnoticed. My favorite performance is probably Winsletts, but Rush, Phoenix, and Caine were all great. I also liked Amelia Werner as Simone. The tension that the film brought kept me tied to the film the entire time. At first, I wasn't sure if I was a fan of Madeleine dying at the near end of the film, but with the way the film ended I thought it all came together.
There were scenes such as the theater scene that I didn't much care for initially but when I look back upon it it made sense to the centralization of the story. The costume design was superb and the films dark setting worked really well.
It's definitely a film that is a performance piece. It put every single person in the right place, and if it had not done that it very well may not have worked. I'm not quite sure exactly where this will land as far as my final list will go, but it surely will be in pretty good shape to finish in a decent spot.
Here's hoping our history of having opposite opinions on films doesn't repeat itself today.
Quills
I agree with the explanation that this film is not all about sex, it is about words and writings as a whole just as much. What kept me glued to the film was the fact that four main acting pieces all brought their A game, and any time something like that happens it cannot go unnoticed. My favorite performance is probably Winsletts, but Rush, Phoenix, and Caine were all great. I also liked Amelia Werner as Simone. The tension that the film brought kept me tied to the film the entire time. At first, I wasn't sure if I was a fan of Madeleine dying at the near end of the film, but with the way the film ended I thought it all came together.
There were scenes such as the theater scene that I didn't much care for initially but when I look back upon it it made sense to the centralization of the story. The costume design was superb and the films dark setting worked really well.
It's definitely a film that is a performance piece. It put every single person in the right place, and if it had not done that it very well may not have worked. I'm not quite sure exactly where this will land as far as my final list will go, but it surely will be in pretty good shape to finish in a decent spot.
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Glad you liked Quills, rauldc! My recollection of it is that Caine's performance was very much the over-the-top moustache twirling villain, but I still need to rewatch it.
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Relieved you liked it, raul.
A little surprised you didn't like the theater scene at first though. That's probably my second favorite scene of the film, just because it's so outrageous and funny. My favorite scene is when the Abbe commands the Marquis to strip. The tension in that scene is so thick it's almost palpable.
And yeah, TN, Royer-Collard is an over the top villain, but the character was intentionally written that way - never showing any sentimentality or emotion besides anger. He is meant to be more sadistic than Sade himself.
ETA - Those of you who are watching Quills for the first time: It made it onto the The MoFo Millennium Countdown and the 2010 MoFo Top 100, so be sure to mark if off in the lists section.
A little surprised you didn't like the theater scene at first though. That's probably my second favorite scene of the film, just because it's so outrageous and funny. My favorite scene is when the Abbe commands the Marquis to strip. The tension in that scene is so thick it's almost palpable.
And yeah, TN, Royer-Collard is an over the top villain, but the character was intentionally written that way - never showing any sentimentality or emotion besides anger. He is meant to be more sadistic than Sade himself.
ETA - Those of you who are watching Quills for the first time: It made it onto the The MoFo Millennium Countdown and the 2010 MoFo Top 100, so be sure to mark if off in the lists section.
Last edited by Miss Vicky; 11-07-14 at 02:07 PM.
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Godoggo, have you seen The American Friend? That's another Ripley movie and it's also very good.
I'll try to find it and watch it soon. Always happy to have more Ripley to watch.
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Have you seen Ripley's Game, Seanc?
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Ordet
As an actual believer, I have mixed feelings on this one. I didn't really much like the ending to the film as it was fairy tale like to me. I won't discredit anyone who does like the ending, but I just didn't find it credible. Sometimes I felt like the actors were truly acting, and by that I mean that I really didn't see anybody get lost in their role. Of course this could be a cultural difference. What I did like was the director of Dreyer, as this was the first Dreyer film that I had seen. I also enjoyed the scenery and cinematography. I'm still glad to have seen this one and I would really like to hear from Tokeza if she is still with us as to why she thinks it's a great film before I rank it in my list as well.
As an actual believer, I have mixed feelings on this one. I didn't really much like the ending to the film as it was fairy tale like to me. I won't discredit anyone who does like the ending, but I just didn't find it credible. Sometimes I felt like the actors were truly acting, and by that I mean that I really didn't see anybody get lost in their role. Of course this could be a cultural difference. What I did like was the director of Dreyer, as this was the first Dreyer film that I had seen. I also enjoyed the scenery and cinematography. I'm still glad to have seen this one and I would really like to hear from Tokeza if she is still with us as to why she thinks it's a great film before I rank it in my list as well.
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Sorry I am just seeing this Godoggo. I haven't, but feel compelled to check it out now. I liked Purple Noon quite a bit.
I also just found out that there is an adaptation of Ripley's Game starring Dennis Hopper.
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I love Malkovich so I am sure I will enjoy it. It may have to work its way up the watch list though.
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Ordet
As an actual believer, I have mixed feelings on this one. I didn't really much like the ending to the film as it was fairy tale like to me. I won't discredit anyone who does like the ending, but I just didn't find it credible. Sometimes I felt like the actors were truly acting, and by that I mean that I really didn't see anybody get lost in their role. Of course this could be a cultural difference. What I did like was the director of Dreyer, as this was the first Dreyer film that I had seen. I also enjoyed the scenery and cinematography. I'm still glad to have seen this one and I would really like to hear from Tokeza if she is still with us as to why she thinks it's a great film before I rank it in my list as well.
As an actual believer, I have mixed feelings on this one. I didn't really much like the ending to the film as it was fairy tale like to me. I won't discredit anyone who does like the ending, but I just didn't find it credible. Sometimes I felt like the actors were truly acting, and by that I mean that I really didn't see anybody get lost in their role. Of course this could be a cultural difference. What I did like was the director of Dreyer, as this was the first Dreyer film that I had seen. I also enjoyed the scenery and cinematography. I'm still glad to have seen this one and I would really like to hear from Tokeza if she is still with us as to why she thinks it's a great film before I rank it in my list as well.
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