Multiple Bombings: World Trade Center/Pentagon

That was hilarious! I love the one of him on the "Speed" bus, or next to Godzilla. Hahahahaha...what a great idea. Very clever.

I can't believe there is someone with that much time on there hands to make those pictures.

Back to subject: AMERICAN IS RETALIATING AS WE SPEAK!!!

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I really didn't think the situation was going to esculate to this level...I thought for sure Bin Laden would be turned over to us...I don't know why I was so naive.

The Taliban is obviously being stubborn. This is very upsetting...I only hope that the attack went well. I imagine it did, but I have some doubts that it went perfectly. If it went off without a single problem, I think we'd hear about it very soon...for morale, or something. Isn't that the way we found out about Operation Desert Storm? Shortly afterwards, because it had done so well? Could be wrong...not sure.

Anyway, I hope it went off well. 'Twas very encouraging to have Tony Blair backing us the whole time.

The attack didn't go well. In Time it says that U.S. networks refused to show the tapes, but that on al-Jazeera there were videos of badly burned and dead children. Didn't the prophet Muhammad say "kill no women, children, or non-combatants"? And we wonder why everyone hates us so much.

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We don't follow Muhammad...but they do...obviously they don't pay attention to him either. Wonder why everyone hates us so much? I really hope that's a joke. They hate us because of their religion: if you want, I can tell you a few things about the Muslim faith that may surprise you...it is NOT a tolerant faith at all. They will hate us no matter what.

They hated us before this attack also, I might add: so, what is it that we've done to them that's so terrible before the 11th? This attack was justified, bottom line...at least we give warning, and give them a chance to change...they sneak up on us in the morning and attack nothing but civilians. They deserve more punishment than we can give them.

Well I heard that a misguided missle hit a civilian house, and there was some lost, but I dont think they've just been hitting anything and everything.

Stop for a minute and think about what you're saying: "They." How dare you make such a generalization about an entire group of people??? That comment, Chris, is positively dripping with ignorance. How many Muslims are there in the world, and how many of them are extremists? It seems to me like you're not making the distinction between the two. Not all Muslims want to kill Americans... So let's hear those few things. I want to know how the Islamic faith is so intolerant. What makes "them" want to kill "us." Aren't you overlooking the fact that there are extreme factions within EVERY religion?

First, we haven't had any PROOF that Osama Bin Laden was behind these attacks. look at this from the viewpoint of a practicing Muslim. Not an extremist, not a fundamentalist, just a devout follower. The United States, the same country that has killed thousands of Iraqi children, stationed soldiers in Saudi Arabia,(home of the most holy and important Muslim cities) and supported Israel, is now attacking a Muslim country with NO proof that a Muslim was behind the attacks. (And, if there was in fact some proof, it hasn't been made public, so there's no absolutely sure way of knowing.) Do you honestly think that all Muslims are so extreme? Personally, I think that most Muslims are so outraged by our attacks because we haven't sufficiently proven to them that a Muslim is responsible for the attack on our country. Consequently, America's actions are seen as attacks not just on Afghanistan, but on the religion itself. The thing is, practicing Muslims DO take the word of Muhammad very seriously, and if I was in that situation I would find it hard to believe that another Muslim was responsible for causing the bloodshed in the United States, most ESPECIALLY when there hasn't been any real proof.


I really hope you think about what you said, TWT. That was a sketchy comment. Let me ask you, what would you do if you worked with someone of Islamic faith? Would you be nervous? Scared? Judging from this post, you already pretty much have your mind made up about Muslims. Sketchy.

Someone back me up here.

[Edited by Steve N. on 10-21-2001]

Uh, Steve? I made no generalization. I am not accusing them all of being extremists. The Muslim religion, however, by definition, is intolerant of us. If you read my post, you'll see that your big long tirade was all for nothing. I never once said all Muslims were that extreme...but your reply sure implies that I did. Sorry, but that drips with ignorance. It's like I said about liberals earlier: act horribly offended first, ask questions later.

I never said the Islamic faith wants to kill us, but if you really want to know, I'll tell you exactly why the Islamic faith is so intolerant...if you promise not to jump to anymore wild conclusions.

It's all right here. "They" hate us because of their religion. "They" follow Muhammad. "They" will hate us no matter what. I don't know if that's intentional or not, but you sure as hell give off the vibe that you're talking about Muslims.

Tell me how it's not a tolerant faith. I'm not retracting anything I said until I hear your defense. Did you read my post?

Yes, I did read your post. And what's with this dislike of the word "they"? It's perfectly suitable..."they" means a group of people I am not a part of...so what's the deal? And yes, I'm talking about Muslims. Why is it bad to say that Muslims follow Mohammad? It's equivalent to saying "I know about Christians...they follow Jesus." Yet I doubt you'd put up a fuss about that. Fess up: we talked about the use of "they" in another thread, but you never replied to my reply there. If you've got a problem, have it out, because I think you're looking for problems that are *not* there.

Oh, by the way: regardless of my defense, you ought to retract what you said, because my post alone earlier says it all: I did not say all Muslims were extreme...I am saying, however, that their religion is intolerant by it's very rules/standards. You, however, took the typical liberal approach and assumed that I was accusing all Muslims of being hateful terrorists, even though I said no such thing.

Now, here's what their religion says: it says that anyone who does not agree with their religion has no basic right to life. NONE. It says, however, that it's acceptable to keep them alive if it somehow benefits their religion, IE: paying money to them. If the person believes in no God, apparently death is the preferable sentence...if they believe in some God, a good God, but not theirs (Jesus is an example), they can keep you alive to pay them money.

Now, if that's not intolerant, nothing is. Christianty has faulty followers (as does Islam, as you can plainly see), but the FUNDAMENTAL difference is that Christianity does not advocate the killing of atheists.

Oh, and did I mention that they still chop off hands for theft over there? IMO, there's nothing wrong with opposing Afghanistan. They are completely barbaric and are adding to the suffering in this world. I hope they do not last...it's origins, even, are questionable!

Oh, and another blow against Afghanistan's reputation: they, along with (I'm pretty sure) the Muslim religion, decided awhile back that they want no changes...they've declared their morals and standards as perfect, basically, and will not change them. They are in a freeze. They refuse to compromise in light of any new evidence or anything of the sort. They'ev decided that their culture and ways of life are the way it ought to be...not open for negotiation.

Now, do you want to defend all these things?

Yo yo Steverino. C'mon dude, second time you've given me crap for using "they," and I wanna know why.

In one post, you say ALL Muslims (by way of their religion) hate us. But when you go on the defensive, you say you didn't mean that ALL Muslims were that extreme. So did you mean not all Muslims are REAL Muslims, or that your original statement was false? They can't both be true, so tell us what you really think, TWT.

There is no contradiction here: saying that the Islamic religion is intolerant of us is not the same as saying that they are all extreme terrorists. Steve, for some reason I am unaware of, assumed that I meant that all Muslims were as extreme as those who flew into the WTC. Or, at the very least, he assumed that I was saying that they all hated us.

Simple timeline:

1) I say that the Muslim faith is, by definition, an intolerant faith, and that Muslims (true Muslims, of course, meaning those who actually adhere to their religion, obviously, not just people calling them Muslims) are raised to be that way by their faith.

2) Steve goes off on some tangent, assuming that I'm likening all Muslims to the pyschos that have caused so many people so much pain.

3) I tell him that that's not what I said.

I hope that clears things up. My original statement was by no means false: the Islamic religion is intolerant. My exact words:

Steve's own words:

As you can see, from reading what Steve said, he makes the assumption that "they will hate us" means "they want to kill us." He also says some more stuff about the use of the word "they" (which still doesn't seem to make any sense, sorry to say). He even says that I shouldn't make a generalization about an entire group of people, when actually, what I said was equivalent to Steve saying "Christians, by definition, follow Christ and denounce sin."

I'm sorry, I won't answer to this issue anymore. You are saying things about a religion that you view as fact, but in reality are just false justifications for what America is doing. I have friends who are Muslims, and I think they would be surprised to hear that all of their friends and family members who don't follow Islam are going to hell. Like I said, you're talking about extremists only. Puritans interpreted the bible much in the same way modern Arabic terrorists interpret the Koran.

But like I said, I'm done with this argument. Your mind is made up, and you don't see anything wrong with what you're saying because you view it as fact.

It is fact. Have you read parts of the Qoran, Steve? Have you done any reasearch into the Islamic faith? Let me make it perfectly clear...the text below is FACT:

The Islamic religion says that those who are polytheists (IE: believe in one God...so atheists are included), or who do not believe in a singular God, have no right to life, and those who are not Mulsim should be fined, in short.

Now, tell me where I'm wrong. Go ahead. Now, maybe your friends don't agree with that, but that is what the Muslim religion teaches. It's just that simple. If they don't follow it, then they are not Muslim. If I don't follow Jesus, I'm not Christian. I am not talking about extremists, I'm talking about what their religion teaches, and how many of them are raised. I'm glad that some of them do not believe that...but it IS what the religion teaches, BOTTOM LINE.

I said Muslims are intolerant...you said I'm generalizing, and then I told you what you have to believe in to be a Muslim (which as an intolerant thing). So where's the problem? Where's the logic in your disagreement? I'm not saying your Muslim frineds want me fined, or Peter killed...but that's what their religion teaches...and if they don't follow it, they are not Muslims, but rather, some modified version of it.

Don't wanna argue? Fine by me...but your last post was blatantly false in many ways. And I would still really like to know why you make such a fuss over "they." Sounds like more liberal stuff designed to try to make it look like someone's being discriminatory. The first time you said it, I said to myself "Whoa, I didn't realize I did that." Then, I looked at what I said, and thought to myself "Wait a second, that word was completely appropriate. He's just pulling the 'act offended first' routine."

Sorry man, but you argue with me, and then you back out, saying a bunch of very, very false things on the way out, and leaving questions unanswered? I can't respect that.

You are right TWT...just find out what's going on in Africa.The muslims are persecuting christians to the extentent of irraticating whole villages.The muslim army even goes as far as to capture christian children and if they don't honor the Koran,they send them to the front lines of the mulim army to slaughter their own people.Don't take my word for it...look it up on the internet.

If you were a serious student of Islam you would have investigated and found the true Islam. The only two authentic sources which bind every Muslim are
1. the Quran and
2. authentic or sound Hadith. Any teachings under the label of "Islam" which contradicts the direct understanding of fundamental beliefs and practices of Islam should be considered a Pseudo-Islamic Cult.

It appears you are quoting from the teachings of a pseudo Islamic cult that cosely resembles Farrakhan's NATION OF ISLAM. Whoever is following the Quran you are quoting--are not true Muslims.

Islam and the so called "Nation of Islam'" are two different religions. The latter is more of a political organization since its members are not limited to a single faith. Muslims consider this group to be just one of many cults using the name of Islam for their own gain. The only thing common between them is the jargon, the language used
by both. "The Nation of Islam" is a misnomer.

Islam and the cult of NOI differ in many fundamental ways. For example, its followers believe in racism and that the 'black man' was the original man and therefore superior, while in Islam there is no racism and everyone is considered equal in the sight of God, the only
difference being in one's piety. There are many other theological examples that show the 'Nation's teachings have little to do with true Islam. There are many groups in America who claim to represent Islam and call their adherents Muslims.

Freedom of religion is laid down in the Quran itself: "There is no compulsion (or coercion) in the religion (Islam). The right direction is distinctly clear from error". (2:256) Christian missionary, T.W. Arnold had this opinion on his study of the question of the spread of Islam: ".. of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any
systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion,we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain, or Louis XIV made Protestanism ..."

It is a function of Islamic law to protect the privileged status of minorities, and this is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world.

History provides many examples of Muslim tolerance towards other faiths: when the caliph Omar entered Jerusalem in the year 634, Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city. Proclaiming to the
inhabitants that their lives, and property were safe, and that their places of worship would never be taken from them, he asked the Christian patriarch Sophronius to accompany him on a visit to all the holy places. Islamic law also permits non-Muslim minorities to set up their own courts, which implement family laws drawn up by the
minorities themselves. The life and property of all citizens in an Islamic state are considered sacred whether the person is Muslim or not.

The Quran speaks only of human equality and how all peoples are equal in the sight of God. "O mankind! We
created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God's sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All- Aware. (49:13)

Just my 2 cents-----

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When I grow up I want to be just like Wart. And when I turn 16, I want to be just like Steve. heehee. Oh hi, Sadesdrk.

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