The problem with Matt Reeve's Batman

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aronisred's Avatar
outrageous film reviewer
News is out that robert pattinson is batman. It doesn't surprise me that warner bros. would go with him. He is at the right time in his career where he distanced himself from twilight that people will look at him as interesting young actor.

But the problem with these movies is matt reeves. His whole take based on previous comments is that no other movie has delved into detective aspect of batman and he wants to do it. The problem with that approach is that, the more detective batman becomes the less special the movies become. The movies will start becoming more and more like spy thriller or mission impossible movies. The brilliance of nolan is that he knew how to use the detective aspect sparsely. Batman movies are not about the detective batman, they are about the psyche of batman and i don't see any batman topping nolan trilogy ever. Because he used up all the best aspects of batman. Batman is a mirror. You need spectacle. How can you make a detective batman movie feel big without looking like casino royale ?

What is reeves gonna do ? what even is his directorial flair ?



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I love the idea of playing up Batman's detective skills. I think if the new films depict Batman as a mysterious figure, they will distinguish themselves from other action films.



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He's the World's Greatest Detective. If anything, the "detective" aspect is one of the more unique characteristics that's supposed to set him apart from other heroes, plus it helps to distance him from the more thuggish variation seen in the Affleck films (and just because there's like one scene in the whole Nolan trilogy where Batman analyses a bullet or whatever doesn't mean that no other filmmaker should try to do a more detective-oriented version of the character).
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Isn't it the opposite, though? If he's just another super awesome hero, what distinguishes him from the Marvel heroes? The fact that he's a guy getting by on cunning and detective work is exactly what does make him special relative to all the others. That doesn't make him less special, it makes him more special.
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aronisred's Avatar
outrageous film reviewer
Isn't it the opposite, though? If he's just another super awesome hero, what distinguishes him from the Marvel heroes? The fact that he's a guy getting by on cunning and detective work is exactly what does make him special relative to all the others. That doesn't make him less special, it makes him more special.
Of course this is speculation , but I don't see how one can merge detective work with spectacle. The more detective work the less epic the movie will feel. Snooping around batman is no different than snooping around any private investigator.



aronisred's Avatar
outrageous film reviewer
He's the World's Greatest Detective. If anything, the "detective" aspect is one of the more unique characteristics that's supposed to set him apart from other heroes, plus it helps to distance him from the more thuggish variation seen in the Affleck films (and just because there's like one scene in the whole Nolan trilogy where Batman analyses a bullet or whatever doesn't mean that no other filmmaker should try to do a more detective-oriented version of the character).
To portray him as the world's greatest detective either the case has to be too difficult to crack and in that case the movie will feel like a police investigation movie and you can replace batman with any good cop or you can portray him as know it all genius like sherlock holmes in which case you will lose the essence of batman. I still don't understand how watching your parents get killed will make you a great detective.



Who the hell is Matt Reeves? Hate Batman. Talk about one boring assed superhero. ooooh, I'm so dark and conflicted. Yawn overload.



I don't see how one can merge detective work with spectacle.

Have you ever seen an episode of Columbo, or Manhunter?

Detective work to me is highly interesting. It's all about the writing. And sometimes lessis more, so the audience can help fill it in, Sign of a great writer is the ability to leave space for speculation.



I actually love the idea of focusing on him as a detective. That is an aspect that is mostly ignored by major motion pictures. If done right, this could be an amazing film
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Aronisred, witnessing the murders of his parents motivated Bruce Wayne to hone his detective skills (as well as his athletic ability) for the purpose of fighting crime. I guess that should be explained more in the new films.



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To portray him as the world's greatest detective either the case has to be too difficult to crack and in that case the movie will feel like a police investigation movie and you can replace batman with any good cop or you can portray him as know it all genius like sherlock holmes in which case you will lose the essence of batman. I still don't understand how watching your parents get killed will make you a great detective.
I think you can find the balance - Watchmen is the greatest superhero story ever and it's essentially one big murder mystery. Besides, I don't think you need to emphasise spectacle too much to make the film good - if anything, superhero movies' focus on spectacle is a double-edged sword as so many of them settle for homogeneous effects-heavy setpieces during their third acts and suffer for it (e.g. blue sky beams). Scaling things back worked for Logan, after all.



Of course this is speculation , but I don't see how one can merge detective work with spectacle.
Well, first, this is already a different standard than before ("less special"). Being detective-focused makes them more special because it's unusual. Just going for "spectacle" makes them more similar to all the other superhero movies.

I don't agree that detective work has to be inherently less exciting, though. The Dark Knight managed to do both. It's just harder. But it's immaterial because Batman's best films have always been the one with less spectacle, anyway. Look at the worst films in the franchise: they have the most spectacle of any of them. It's when Batman devolves into a cartoon with over-the-top villains and one-liners that people tend to dislike it. People like Batman specifically because he's more serious and somber than other heroes.

The more detective work the less epic the movie will feel. Snooping around batman is no different than snooping around any private investigator.
I don't know any private investigators with utility belts and planes, so this is at least a moderate exaggeration.

To portray him as the world's greatest detective either the case has to be too difficult to crack and in that case the movie will feel like a police investigation movie and you can replace batman with any good cop or you can portray him as know it all genius like sherlock holmes in which case you will lose the essence of batman. I still don't understand how watching your parents get killed will make you a great detective.
I don't think anyone's ever suggested that that's why he's a great detective. He's a great detective be cause he's inherently brilliant, and seeing his parents murdered convinced him to channel that brilliance into detective work.



For this viewer, the idea of Batman being a detective based story, rather than a superhero spectacle, is definitely appealing. I've always liked the murder - mystery or mystery-thriller genre, be it film or tv. And there doesn't seem to be as many films of that type made anymore. I miss the heyday of films like Murder on the Orient Express or Presumed Innocent.

Although the spectacular comic book hero films have become immensely popular, I myself had grown weary of them for some time. So I personally would give
this '' new Batman" a chance - it may not be as popular as the current superhero movies , but would surely draw in at least one new audience member- which would be me .



I mean really, look at the post-Burton Batmans. Widely considered the worst ones. They all have more spectacle.

Look at the last few Affleck versions, after the Nolan versions. Way more spectacle than the Nolan versions, even though the Nolan versions are considered widely superior.

Not only do I not see any correlation between "good movie" and "spectacle" here, but if anything the correlation would appear to run the other way.



I think I saw something like that crawling around on my salad whilst dining recently at an outdoor cafe. Had to send the salad back, of course



It's not like there won't be action set pieces, they just won't be their priority to focus on. All I want is something I can call a highlight, something like:
"Let's get nuts"
The Bruce and Selina dynamic
Couldn't think of one for Forever lol
As bad as B&R was, Bruce's love for Alfred was shown in a whole new way
Training with the LoS
The interrogation scene
The Bane sewer fight
The warehouse scene
Yeah, JL is tougher to pick one than Forever

I want something that hasn't been done before, a case where he has to connect dots along the way throughout the whole film instead of 2 or 3 moments would make me happy, even if it was terrible, I'd appreciate the effort