Beheading of Nick Berg

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Originally Posted by The Silver Bullet
[By the way, my comment was only in reply to your wanting to kill them, Brian, and wasn't an attack on you. The only thing I was attacking was the mindlessness of everything that's going on. To quote a Paul Newman character, "[T]here is only one guarantee: none of us will see heaven."]
I didn't think you were, man. I was hoping someone else would concur so I could come back with what I said earlier about hatred. You only sounded how I feel; sad and tired.
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Ah. I get it now. You didn't expect me to concur.

I see.



Very well. Carry on.
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I must become Caligari..!
This is a terrible tragedy and I pray the guilty are bought to justice,


The Beheading of Nick Berg in Iraq: A Muslim Perspective
Prof. Sam Hamod, Former Director of The Islamic Center of Washington,
DC


"There is another strange matter to this situation that troubles me. Why was
Mr. Berg picked up by coalition forces and imprisoned, so much so that his
family sued Donald Rumsfeld for his release and information on him. The
military says it released him, but suddenly then, he disappeared becausse
when people went to see him at the hotel he was allegedly registered at, he
wasn't there and no one there knew of him. Very strange point number two is,
why was Mr. Berg in an American issued orange jump suit--the kind Americans
put prisoners in, when he was photographed and killed? The Iraqis or other
Arabs would have had him in Arab clothing so as not to draw suspicion to him
of his being a prisoner--not an orange jump suit. Also, the way the men were
standing, and their size, as a person experienced in the middle east, most
Arabs don't stand that way and most Iraqis are not that tall--the men stand
more like Westerners of some sort, or even Israelis, but not like Arabs or
Iraqis."

"But, it may also be that this was perpetrated by Israeli agents, who have
been operating in Iraq since the American invasion and have been advisors
and combatants for Blackwater, and for the U.S. military, especially in
interrogation techniques. I do not know if it was Israelis, but I do
remember in the early 1980s when the Mossad of Israel shot Israel's own
ambassador to London to help justify the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. You
may recall the general who led the brutal assault was none other than Ariel
Sharon; the present brutal prime minister of Israel.

We must also ask the question intelligence agencies use, "Who would most
benefit from this act?" In this case, if not Israel, then Bush and America
to take the heat off of America for the brutality of the torture in Iraq and
Guantanamo. This terrible act also took a lot of pressure off the U.S. Thus,
it is also possible, since the killers were hooded, and thus we can't know
who they were, that it could have been American counter-insurgency agents,
CIA or mercenaries who did this heinous at a time when the glare of anger
toward the U.S. was growing in the world. I don't know that this is true,
but having worked in intelligence situations, I know it has been done in the
past. Remember, also that the Nazis blew up the Bundestag to blame it on the
Jews and others who they wanted to punish. America also used the boiler
explosion on the U.S.S. Maine as a pretext for the Spanish American War by
blaming it on Spain (even though it our intelligence knew it was simply a
result of the boiler blowing up).

We pushed into Viet Nam after our false report of the attack on one of our
ships in the Bay of Tonkin. Our nation has not always been lilly-white in
matters of truth when we wanted to take an action--we found ways to justify
matters, or to lie to our advantage. We even allowed our own navy men to be
killed on the U.S. S. Liberty in order to allow the Israelis freedom to do a
sneak attack on Egypt --not allowing our own airplanes to go to the rescue
of the Liberty when Israeli planes and torpedo boats were attacking it. To
this dayh, the U.S. government has not allowed the Liberty case to be
opened, or the men to be compensated, even though Admirals and others have
asked for an open naval inquiry as to what happened and why President
Johnson or someone in the Pentagon called back American planes that were
going to the rescue of the Liberty. Israel has never been reprimanded for
the attack, though clearly the ship had American flags, gave American
signals and did not look like any Egyptian or Arab vessels. Unfortunately,
our hands have been dirty before; it is possible they have dirtied
themselves again for the sake of Bush's policies in the "war on terror"--and
what better way than to turn the spotlight on the victims and make them
"terrorists" through such an act. There are just too many
questions here, to many odd things about this savage act."
__________________
It's a god-awful small affair, To the girl with, the mousy hair, But her mummy is yelling "No", and her daddy has told her to go, But her friend is nowhere to be seen, Now she walks through her sunken dream, To the seat with the clearest view, And she's hooked to the silver screen, But the film is a saddening bore, For she's lived it ten times or more...



That's a good post to have in this thread. Thanks, Reece.

I don't know what's true and what isn't. There's absolutely no way to know if any of our governments are being honest with us. To have absolute faith is naive.



leaving the savages to rot would be too much to ask for from a government who can't even be a**ed to disclose the truth to those who deserve to know!!! I'm sick and tired of the goody-goody "we're there to help s**t" because the only thing we seem to be doing is sending our troops to be slaughtered!!! I have no sympathy for Iraq anymore-they're not worth our help!!!



Cyberdine Systems Model 101
Beheaded American buried in private

Nicholas Berg recalled
as an adventurous traveler
but unheeding of dangers


NBC News and news services
Updated: 3:51 p.m. ET May 14, 2004


WEST CHESTER, Pa. - Nicholas Berg, the 26-year-old American who was beheaded on videotape by Iraqi militants, was buried Friday morning in a private ceremony.

A memorial service for family and friends, also private, was held later Friday afternoon.
ďTheyíre in a state of shock,Ē said Bruce Hauser, a spokesman for the family. ďYou walk in and look at [Suzanne Berg, Bergís mother], and she doesnít even look like herself.Ē

Berg, who owned a small communications firm, was buried in a family plot at Montefiore Cemetery in Jenkintown, Chester County Commissioner Andrew Dinniman said.

The family appealed to curiosity seekers and media to stay away from the dayís events. The sheriffís department used hand-held metal detectors to screen visitors at the the memorial, and police said that, if necessary, they would arrest outsiders who tried to attend.
R.I.P. Berg.
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You can view my review for each of those films at T-850's Reviews



You ready? You look ready
Do not, I repeat, do not watch the video unless you are prepared. It's horrible, cruel, and painful to watch if you aren't prepared. My condolences go out to the family of Nick Berg.
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"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza



You ready? You look ready
Originally Posted by LordSlaytan
It was released to the public on an Arabian website.

All I know is that I'd like to kill the mother****ers myself.
Slay, I feel the same way. I'd like to hurt those bastards down and kill them myself. Doing that to a human being is horrible. That's why Bush wanted to liberate Iraq; to get rid of scum like that. Personally, I think anyone who kills or hurts an American, in Iraq ir any othwer country, should be killed.



You didn't read the following posts after that, did you?

I want to insult you, but I'm refraining.



You ready? You look ready
Originally Posted by LordSlaytan
You didn't read the following posts after that, did you?

I want to insult you, but I'm refraining.
I did but, I still agree with your statement.



I want to slap you for being part of the demand. Why in the hell did you watch it? You're just a friggin' kid and don't need to be watching that ****. I don't want to watch it because I've seen **** like that up close and personal, and I don't really need to see anymore. What's the friggin' attraction of watching some poor sot's head being removed? Did you like it? Did you think you'd like it? If hundreds of thousands of young males would just go jerk off instead of downloading this terrible footage, maybe it would quit being THE MOST DOWNLOADED FILE ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB!!!

Anybody who watches this for ****s, giggles, or morbid curiosity should be ashamed of themselves.

And do you really think anybody needed your help to know that this is something horrible?

For ****'s sakes. Quit trying to be a grown-up.



You ready? You look ready
I understand your point of view but, I'm going to make my argument. I know I'm just a kid but my curiosity gets the better of me just like grown adults. I've got a fair role in worldly matters involving my country just as much as you do. I'm pissed at how I'm being treated as a f***ing kid. I may be a kid but I've got more response abilities than some adults. I'm going to be going into the Marines probably when I get out of high school. That's another response ability that I have. I feel obligated to go out and protect our country from the scum of the earth. Ever since seeing 9/11 I've gotten my priorities straight with world matters. When I was in school I was frighted beyond belief. I've never felt that scared in my life. When I got home I cried my eyes out. Ever since seeing my country the greatest country in the world start going down the tubes and not being able to do a f***ing thing about it. I made a commitment to myself that I would always try and do something for my country and for the lives of Americans. I started a movement in my home town to bring soldiers home and to help those who lost loved ones. As a fellow American I have rights, freedom, and my life; I feel that I'm going to have to protect that someday. That's why I have more response abilities then some adults and I watched the video because I felt that it order to understand what our men are going up against, I would have to see it first hand. Please don't give me, I'm just a frigin kid because I've got to deal with more than you know right now and I need to, no I have to understand what is in the world. I've been sheltered all my life, but not anymore. I'm going to stand up and let my opinions and beliefs be heard in a country I love more than my sister.



My life isn't written very well.
John, what makes you think that by joining the Marines that you'll be able to do anything for the US? Yes, I've seen the commercials--the young guy climbing a rock with his bare hands and making it to the top only to be magically transformed into a Marine in full dress and sword--That ain't reality! What they don't tell you in the commercial is that if you're an enlisted man, you have to work your way up to the top. You don't just finish basic training, and off you go dressed in black and white, to save the world, no that's not how it is. Depending on how well you do on the placement test, you might be a cook, or a crewman. The real Marine jobs, the ones that make a difference, are the ones for people who hold college degrees, at least four years of college! I don't know how old you are, or if your in college or not, but please don't go joining the Marines thinking it's as glamorous as they show on TV. And of course you're smart enough to know this, but Slay is sort-of right if you don't.
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r66-The member who always asks WHY?



You ready? You look ready
Originally Posted by r3port3r66
John, what makes you think that by joining the Marines that you'll be able to do anything for the US? Yes, I've seen the commercials--the young guy climbing a rock with his bare hands and making it to the top only to be magically transformed into a Marine in full dress and sword--That ain't reality! What they don't tell you in the commercial is that if you're an enlisted man, you have to work your way up to the top. You don't just finish basic training, and off you go dressed in black and white, to save the world, no that's not how it is. Depending on how well you do on the placement test, you might be a cook, or a crewman. The real Marine jobs, the ones that make a difference, are the ones for people who hold college degrees, at least four years of college! I don't know how old you are, or if your in college or not, but please don't go joining the Marines thinking it's as glamorous as they show on TV. And of course you're smart enough to know this, but Slay is sort-of right if you don't.
DUH!!!!! I've studied about it more then you know.



My life isn't written very well.
Originally Posted by John McClane
DUH!!!!! I've studied about it more then you know.
Well..OK, so tell me based on your knowledge, what are your plans?



I let my anger get the best of me with my post, John, but let's face it; you are a kid. You're 14-years old, and whether you realize it or not, you're not seeing the big picture.

You have called the Iraqi people ďthe scum of the earthĒ. Do you have any idea how wrong you are? These fighters are exactly that, fighters. They believe that we are the scum of the Earth and will do anything to get us out of their home. No, I donít agree with their methods, but I do understand them.

You said that you ďstarted a movement in my home town to bring soldiers homeĒ. Iím sorry, especially if this hurts your feelings, but I donít believe you. Iíve caught you fibbing at least a half a dozen times on this board, and just canít see you doing that. Being a part of, yes. Starting at 12-13 years old, no.

You said ďI've got a fair role in worldly matters involving my country just as much as you do.Ē Sorry, I donít think so. Iíve been accused of thinking that I know more about things than teen-agers. Teen-agers are the only ones to accuse me. I still remember what it was like when I was a teen, and you know what? I really didnít know **** about ****. Thatís life. Accept it. That doesnít mean that youíre a stupid, meaningless, entity, but it does mean that because of my experience, there are a good number of things I know better than you.

Tell me John, what will you protect by going to Iraq? Are they threatening our way of life? Were our liberties at risk before the invasion? What is it exactly that weíre protecting right now, other than the scumbags (the Iraqi citizens) you spoke of earlier?

By watching that video, you have fallen prey to manipulation. Youíre up in arms about what these militants did to this poor fellow, and youíre not thinking about the horrible things that our own military has done to their prisoners. You feel enough hatred to call an entire race by the name of scumbag. You lack the wisdom of age to help you resist that. Sounds condescending, but itís true. I know itís hard to hear that youíre still a kid.

Donít think because I say the things I do that I donít like you. I was angry with you for downloading that damn video that really needs to go away, but I understand curiosity. Youíre still okay in my book.

Originally Posted by John McClane
DUH!!!!! I've studied about it more then you know.
Okay, now I'm pissed again. I doubt you've studied anything. You're probably lying again.



You ready? You look ready
Originally Posted by LordSlaytan
I let my anger get the best of me with my post, John, but let's face it; you are a kid. You're 14-years old, and whether you realize it or not, you're not seeing the big picture.

You have called the Iraqi people ďthe scum of the earthĒ. Do you have any idea how wrong you are? These fighters are exactly that, fighters. They believe that we are the scum of the Earth and will do anything to get us out of their home. No, I donít agree with their methods, but I do understand them.

You said that you ďstarted a movement in my home town to bring soldiers homeĒ. Iím sorry, especially if this hurts your feelings, but I donít believe you. Iíve caught you fibbing at least a half a dozen times on this board, and just canít see you doing that. Being a part of, yes. Starting at 12-13 years old, no.

You said ďI've got a fair role in worldly matters involving my country just as much as you do.Ē Sorry, I donít think so. Iíve been accused of thinking that I know more about things than teen-agers. Teen-agers are the only ones to accuse me. I still remember what it was like when I was a teen, and you know what? I really didnít know **** about ****. Thatís life. Accept it. That doesnít mean that youíre a stupid, meaningless, entity, but it does mean that because of my experience, there are a good number of things I know better than you.

Tell me John, what will you protect by going to Iraq? Are they threatening our way of life? Were our liberties at risk before the invasion? What is it exactly that weíre protecting right now, other than the scumbags (the Iraqi citizens) you spoke of earlier?

By watching that video, you have fallen prey to manipulation. Youíre up in arms about what these militants did to this poor fellow, and youíre not thinking about the horrible things that our own military has done to their prisoners. You feel enough hatred to call an entire race by the name of scumbag. You lack the wisdom of age to help you resist that. Sounds condescending, but itís true. I know itís hard to hear that youíre still a kid.

Donít think because I say the things I do that I donít like you. I was angry with you for downloading that damn video that really needs to go away, but I understand curiosity. Youíre still okay in my book.

Okay, now I'm pissed again. I doubt you've studied anything. You're probably lying again.
You know what I'm about this far from just leaving this place. You call me a lair, you tell me what I should and shouldn't do, and you just don't get me. I really enjoy this place but I can't stand it when the above happens to me. I've got an opinion, I've got rights, and I've got feelings. I'm not a dog so I don't have unconditionally love. THese exact reasons are why I broke ties with some of my friends. I think of these place as a family were I can be accepted no matter what I do or say. I'm really sad if you don't believe me but at least I know I'm right. I don't want to leave her but if someone pushs my buttons the wrong way I'll be tempted to do so.



Originally Posted by LordSlaytan
If you made a point of watching it, then you deserve it.
I didn't make it a point to watch it. My friends had been over the night before (and this was a day before the media caught wind of the whole thing) and I woke up got on my computer saw a video file saved on my desktop which wasn't there before. I opened it and watched, and as soon as I realized what was happening I shut it off. I couldn't believe what I had seen, and I really hadn't seen anything. Later that same day I actually heard the report on the news...awful.

Oh and John, Patriotism is one thing, but blind honor is another. Don't sign your life away to die in some powerful fool's pointless war.
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Slay, I get where you're coming from but I just hate it when people call me a lair. How do you know I don't study the Marines? How do you know I didn't start a movement? Movements can be started in the smallest of places, even the high schools.



Kaiser "The Devil" Soze
Originally Posted by runningscared
maybe pulling out of Iraq is the best option? how many more need die? I've seen clips of soldiers being paraded around the streets in Iraq beaten and bloody, then killed, for what? Entertainment? Exactly what do we have to show for losing our soldiers? I think its a waste.
Yes I can see why you would think that pulling out is the best option. However as an American do you really want to be remembered as the people who bombed a country to remove one "evil regime" then just left it to the Citizens saying... "here you are guys- your free now... enjoy the rebuilding!" ?

Just a day before Nick's beheading the American public were saying: "oh no, we are portrayed in a negative light, how can we possiabiy show the Iraqis that we are not the torturers that the soilders were at the prison". The Soilders were a select few ; Likewise these "aggressors" are a select few in comparison to the citizens without water. Why is it so hard to believe that not all Iraqis are bad people like how you know not all Americans are?

So why stay?
Because their citizens deserve better
Because as Americans we ought to know better
Because leaving will only allow the militants to build another regime to oppress their people.
Because (even if I'm the last man on earth left believing this) the job deserves to be done right.

Running Scared is not the American way!
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And like that .... he's gone