Closed Thread
Well, My first one was a flop but I have better one.
As some of you know, I'm a Die-Hard Nationalist. The funny thing is this word is actually becoming out-of-fashion to use because Economical dealings and Immigration have blurred the line of what makes a nation a nation and not for the better I argue.
Before I go on my reader, I must warn some of you (like I have before) that some points in my argument you will be offended so I must first apologize before I get started and explain that my arguments are not shallow but they are logical, practical and undoubtebly frank, I might add. So before your heart starts to pound and your blood pressure rises, I ask those of you to think about what I'm saying because emotion is a disease and an enemy when discussing topics like these and has no real place. Decisions based on emotion are almost never founded to be worth a hole in the ground, much less not contribute to destroying a part of the institutions of society and society itself. Fear not however, because no one is left out in this argument and everybody ultimately has fair treatment like they should.
The First Argument I'm going to illustrate is my argument on Immigration and its cultural effects. I'm starting on this argument because I simply haven't totally made up my mind on Global Economics, much of it having to do with my lack of knowledge in certain areas of it (Some recoverable, others not so easy to find and study).
Because of the dire facts which I've had to live with, I decided the other day that I'm not going to spend my adult life on Long Island as I previously hoped because the swelling of foreign people has grown so bad, I can't find a a decent town anymore where I can be alone with other natives. As a matter of fact, seventy percent of the people I see walking down the street that goes through my town are hispanic (Note: Very few hispanics live in my town). To Understand, You have to understand this:
Since the beginning of Civilization (Post- Prehistory) there were without a doubt several components of society that were synonymous with it as a country (every country). This was without question, without a doubt and the way things were. Countries almost always (unless under an Empire ofcourse but it's still the same) had a distinguishable culture, religion and race.
Culture ecorporates many things from the way the citizens decided to build and design their structures (Yes, backward, nomadic nations are not to my believe nations) to what kind of apparel they wore. More specifically, Countries were very uniform. Everyone was a nationalist (whether their country was really woth a damn or not) and everyone practiced its cultural customs and traditions. If some of the more extreme ones were broken, it would mean severe punishment, even death. In other words, the administrations at the time (even though they felt even more disconnected from the public at large than even now) went through great lengths to preserve the heritage of their nation.
As you're probably guessing, there were sacrifices to do this. A person who did not believe in his/her nations Gods, was labled a heritic and many times would be brutally executed. It doesn't seem very fair but it was brutally expedicious and frankly, it worked. The Overall of Society was preserved and many lasted for a great many years. Although, this meant unending War with other nations, its was every society's Keystone and was to be fought for and preserved at all costs, even annihilation.
Luckily, things have changed since then and things aren't as brutal and cold as in those days but Unfortunately now, The very things that made a country a country are increasingly at risk mostly due to the effect of democratic thinking (sometimes made by a couple political softies and sometimes by people who don't care if they can potentially help to ruin their country if there is something in it for them) and economic gain.
Getting to the point, this debate is about The United States (My homeland) and what it really is. It seems fairly stupid to pose such a question but in case you are having trouble in understanding my debate, ask yourself this: "TODAY, and I don't mean yesterday, what is the typical american and what does he/she look like?" Now there are extenuating circumstances such as the Blacks. Blacks came here as slaves in the early days of this country (often times betrayed by their own people I have to admit however) which should never have happened so Blacks are a part of the united States and can't by entitlement be classified as a sub-standard citizen.
Many people will argue that this country is a country of immigrants. There's no doubt about that but in actuality that has little to do with the subject and is really just plain rhetoric. In truth, this country was a European colony (people from Roman dissent [Caucasian People]) , inheriting everything of the European way of life. At first, only Western Europe, then eventually after a lot of hostility, the Eastern Europeans. Even so, this country was still 100% christian in spite of the fact that many people left their homelands to practice their religion the way they wanted to. Make no mistake about it, it was still unthinkable and blasphemous to practice a religion in this country that wasn't christian. After our Independence from our old friend Britain, we began the pursuit to build what is excellent. Unfortunately, we had to roll over the Indians to do it. To illustrate how unified a country we were at the time, President Jackson (After the anti-relocate Cherokee Indians repeatedly asked for the US government to recognize their esatblishment) sent them a letter that read, " You can't stay here. Things are happening beyond your or my control. You cannot co-exist within a growing civilized country." It's not word for word but the first two sentences are.
Moving right along, eventually, when America became more established, we began to develop a distinguished American Culture apart from the Europeans. This was the way it was and continued up until the mid '60's. (It's always the sixties) Before then, we were all truly brethren. It is a shame that blacks will never foreseaably be considered true Americans but the problem today is far worse. The Unity countries had, for so long cherished, is under attack by liberal thinkers (more about this later). Some People believe that it has always been true that all people are welcome here and they will assimilate into our culture and learn our language. It hasn't. And the people haven't done what optimists thought they would either. Somehow people thought that people of other religion and race would somehow change, meaning drop their own cultural practices and be on the same wavelength of thought (to one degree or another) as everyone else and everyone would get along. Just as I expected, it hasn't happened that way (for the most part). They did exactly what I predicted which is the quite natural thing to do that every person follows: they gravitated towards what is familiar and stuck with each other. The blacks hang out with blacks, Hispanics hang out with hispanics, asians with asians, etc, etc. You know this is true because if you live on the coast, you've seen the neighborhoods. My Dad's Parents grew up in Flushing which was a German neighborhood. Now, there's no point in going there because everything's in Korean. They had to pass a law so they didn't knock down the old beautiful houses of the neighborhood and put up these ugly tall low-income apartments that were ruining it. (They just don't care)
A lot of people also think that is was good Segregation was abolished. Says who it ever was?
Segregation was abolished a horses ass. Only social segregation has. There will always be segregation. The point of segregation anyway wasn't to label blacks as subhuman, it was to protect everyone's culture. It was for all races. Interracial couples were not seen as acceptable then by anyone. (Usually it's the less prestigeous race hitting on the better one anyway. I have seen many more black guys dating white girls than vica versa.) The Problem with this (voluntary social segregation) is there's not a damn thing wrong with that yet people think there is when whites hang out with whites. It's the way things are and the way things have always been since the beginning of history. That doesn't mean different countries didn't have friendships. On the Contrary, they did. The Greeks developed a long-standing relationship with the Egyptians for one good example.
So the next question you would have for me without a doubt (if you've understood this much and haven't fallen astray) is "Knowing our country's culture, what would make that any better than the trend we have now?"
There are a lot of reasons for this, (Let me add right here that there is a lot I'm not mentioning specifically but understand I know of all the things they would lead to but, argue them anyway if you think you have a point) for example, very few minorities I've ever met have any affection for this country whatsoever besides their own damn pay-check. I was in the army which is about seventy five percent white, twenty percent black and five percent everything else. No, this does not reflect our population especially hispanics by a long-shot. The truth of the matter is very few if any minorities (including black unfortunately) have convinced me they are pro-american in any way at all. I'm not just talking about American products. That's definitely one part of being a true American but not in ideology, traditions, or support for worthwhile institutions. I don't have any stats here unfortunately because they don't exist but time and time again, I've been shown that foreigners don't care for American Cars (I've seen a good portion of Mexicans though, fairly). This of course is a big argument in itself but it has no place here. It's one thing when Americans buy foreign cars which a lot of times is out of pure ignorence or a misled preconception that they're getting a better deal "economically" [This I'll actually get into more in my second argument] but when Foreigners who are new here don't even buy the wheels of the land, it's obvious where their head and their heart is.
The truth of it is I haven't been convinced that these "immigrants" don't think of this country as anything but a piece of land with money to cheat and get-off on. The more poorer the dissent (South America, Mexico), the worse they seem to behave. Therefore, Besides the South, I believe this countries own virtues are looked at as wrong and 'old' and we are now [excluding economically, for the present time at least] in almost every way a third world country.
This diversity bring us (from my collected argument above) a diversity that I can't see to be doing anything but tearing down what our forefather's intended and dis-unifying the country. If you have every piece of the world in your country, how could you fundamentally take any action against one? Example: Poll- 95% of muslims in England say they have no loyalty to britain and 50% said they'd fight for BinLaden. That's a real poll and I knew from the beginning it was a bad idea to take in the Muslims (especially since they tried to conquer Europe in the early middle ages) and as it turned out as you know from recent news, I was right. Not a damn thing changed even though they were under a different flag. This multi-racial, cultural idea only breeds the destruction of the recognition of a nationality. You see, if every country had every race of people in it nicely smoothed out, national pride would most certainly not exist. Every culture would be the same. The only thing that would matter is economic superiority which is the problem the US is facing today. This isn't however how the whole world is, surprisingly. Most of the world is still pretty clean cut. It's only the big Economic powers that are having this problem. China is smart because they understand this and don't want people not from asian dissent to live there at all. They're not the biggest economic power on the globe yet but I fear they will be in twenty years and we may for the first time have someone that can push us around. If our country through this is taught to accept and accomodate all races, who the hell will want to fight a costly war with the Chinese, Again?
Anyway, there's really no point in each culture battling it out on which one is the greatest because it's pointless. History points out which are anyway because what each does is the only way you can accurately measure that. I do however think every culture should return to strict geographic isolation or segregation. I believe this is better in the interests and hearts of each national community. It would be much easier to work with than a Utopian Mess.
I believe it would be best for each race with all its different national cultures to do what the Americans did with European culture (that's been done as far back as the Ancient Persians) which is to evolve to absorb all of them (as a modern world excluding of course religion) instead of trying to rediculously have a utopian culture which hasn't ultimately worked and has brought confusion, frustration, oppression, repression, hate, artificial borders and 'traditional turmoil' (obviously there's more). This would mean Africa would be for the blacks and naturally where they would pride themselves with their own unique culture, learning more about all of them and absorbing. The asians would obviously have Eastern Asia where all their race could hopefully do the same but I think it would work the best if all races were also segregated by a religious province if there is a real clash of some anyway internally (India). This would also promote a safety net for people looking to move for economic gain. This idea isn't perfect but I do believe that social stability is inherently more important than Economic Gain as well as each being the nemesis of the other. This inevitably leads me to my second debate which is other BIG social problem the world has and it's even more threatening than the first.
As some of you know, I'm a Die-Hard Nationalist. The funny thing is this word is actually becoming out-of-fashion to use because Economical dealings and Immigration have blurred the line of what makes a nation a nation and not for the better I argue.
Before I go on my reader, I must warn some of you (like I have before) that some points in my argument you will be offended so I must first apologize before I get started and explain that my arguments are not shallow but they are logical, practical and undoubtebly frank, I might add. So before your heart starts to pound and your blood pressure rises, I ask those of you to think about what I'm saying because emotion is a disease and an enemy when discussing topics like these and has no real place. Decisions based on emotion are almost never founded to be worth a hole in the ground, much less not contribute to destroying a part of the institutions of society and society itself. Fear not however, because no one is left out in this argument and everybody ultimately has fair treatment like they should.
The First Argument I'm going to illustrate is my argument on Immigration and its cultural effects. I'm starting on this argument because I simply haven't totally made up my mind on Global Economics, much of it having to do with my lack of knowledge in certain areas of it (Some recoverable, others not so easy to find and study).
Because of the dire facts which I've had to live with, I decided the other day that I'm not going to spend my adult life on Long Island as I previously hoped because the swelling of foreign people has grown so bad, I can't find a a decent town anymore where I can be alone with other natives. As a matter of fact, seventy percent of the people I see walking down the street that goes through my town are hispanic (Note: Very few hispanics live in my town). To Understand, You have to understand this:
Since the beginning of Civilization (Post- Prehistory) there were without a doubt several components of society that were synonymous with it as a country (every country). This was without question, without a doubt and the way things were. Countries almost always (unless under an Empire ofcourse but it's still the same) had a distinguishable culture, religion and race.
Culture ecorporates many things from the way the citizens decided to build and design their structures (Yes, backward, nomadic nations are not to my believe nations) to what kind of apparel they wore. More specifically, Countries were very uniform. Everyone was a nationalist (whether their country was really woth a damn or not) and everyone practiced its cultural customs and traditions. If some of the more extreme ones were broken, it would mean severe punishment, even death. In other words, the administrations at the time (even though they felt even more disconnected from the public at large than even now) went through great lengths to preserve the heritage of their nation.
As you're probably guessing, there were sacrifices to do this. A person who did not believe in his/her nations Gods, was labled a heritic and many times would be brutally executed. It doesn't seem very fair but it was brutally expedicious and frankly, it worked. The Overall of Society was preserved and many lasted for a great many years. Although, this meant unending War with other nations, its was every society's Keystone and was to be fought for and preserved at all costs, even annihilation.
Luckily, things have changed since then and things aren't as brutal and cold as in those days but Unfortunately now, The very things that made a country a country are increasingly at risk mostly due to the effect of democratic thinking (sometimes made by a couple political softies and sometimes by people who don't care if they can potentially help to ruin their country if there is something in it for them) and economic gain.
Getting to the point, this debate is about The United States (My homeland) and what it really is. It seems fairly stupid to pose such a question but in case you are having trouble in understanding my debate, ask yourself this: "TODAY, and I don't mean yesterday, what is the typical american and what does he/she look like?" Now there are extenuating circumstances such as the Blacks. Blacks came here as slaves in the early days of this country (often times betrayed by their own people I have to admit however) which should never have happened so Blacks are a part of the united States and can't by entitlement be classified as a sub-standard citizen.
Many people will argue that this country is a country of immigrants. There's no doubt about that but in actuality that has little to do with the subject and is really just plain rhetoric. In truth, this country was a European colony (people from Roman dissent [Caucasian People]) , inheriting everything of the European way of life. At first, only Western Europe, then eventually after a lot of hostility, the Eastern Europeans. Even so, this country was still 100% christian in spite of the fact that many people left their homelands to practice their religion the way they wanted to. Make no mistake about it, it was still unthinkable and blasphemous to practice a religion in this country that wasn't christian. After our Independence from our old friend Britain, we began the pursuit to build what is excellent. Unfortunately, we had to roll over the Indians to do it. To illustrate how unified a country we were at the time, President Jackson (After the anti-relocate Cherokee Indians repeatedly asked for the US government to recognize their esatblishment) sent them a letter that read, " You can't stay here. Things are happening beyond your or my control. You cannot co-exist within a growing civilized country." It's not word for word but the first two sentences are.
Moving right along, eventually, when America became more established, we began to develop a distinguished American Culture apart from the Europeans. This was the way it was and continued up until the mid '60's. (It's always the sixties) Before then, we were all truly brethren. It is a shame that blacks will never foreseaably be considered true Americans but the problem today is far worse. The Unity countries had, for so long cherished, is under attack by liberal thinkers (more about this later). Some People believe that it has always been true that all people are welcome here and they will assimilate into our culture and learn our language. It hasn't. And the people haven't done what optimists thought they would either. Somehow people thought that people of other religion and race would somehow change, meaning drop their own cultural practices and be on the same wavelength of thought (to one degree or another) as everyone else and everyone would get along. Just as I expected, it hasn't happened that way (for the most part). They did exactly what I predicted which is the quite natural thing to do that every person follows: they gravitated towards what is familiar and stuck with each other. The blacks hang out with blacks, Hispanics hang out with hispanics, asians with asians, etc, etc. You know this is true because if you live on the coast, you've seen the neighborhoods. My Dad's Parents grew up in Flushing which was a German neighborhood. Now, there's no point in going there because everything's in Korean. They had to pass a law so they didn't knock down the old beautiful houses of the neighborhood and put up these ugly tall low-income apartments that were ruining it. (They just don't care)
A lot of people also think that is was good Segregation was abolished. Says who it ever was?
Segregation was abolished a horses ass. Only social segregation has. There will always be segregation. The point of segregation anyway wasn't to label blacks as subhuman, it was to protect everyone's culture. It was for all races. Interracial couples were not seen as acceptable then by anyone. (Usually it's the less prestigeous race hitting on the better one anyway. I have seen many more black guys dating white girls than vica versa.) The Problem with this (voluntary social segregation) is there's not a damn thing wrong with that yet people think there is when whites hang out with whites. It's the way things are and the way things have always been since the beginning of history. That doesn't mean different countries didn't have friendships. On the Contrary, they did. The Greeks developed a long-standing relationship with the Egyptians for one good example.
So the next question you would have for me without a doubt (if you've understood this much and haven't fallen astray) is "Knowing our country's culture, what would make that any better than the trend we have now?"
There are a lot of reasons for this, (Let me add right here that there is a lot I'm not mentioning specifically but understand I know of all the things they would lead to but, argue them anyway if you think you have a point) for example, very few minorities I've ever met have any affection for this country whatsoever besides their own damn pay-check. I was in the army which is about seventy five percent white, twenty percent black and five percent everything else. No, this does not reflect our population especially hispanics by a long-shot. The truth of the matter is very few if any minorities (including black unfortunately) have convinced me they are pro-american in any way at all. I'm not just talking about American products. That's definitely one part of being a true American but not in ideology, traditions, or support for worthwhile institutions. I don't have any stats here unfortunately because they don't exist but time and time again, I've been shown that foreigners don't care for American Cars (I've seen a good portion of Mexicans though, fairly). This of course is a big argument in itself but it has no place here. It's one thing when Americans buy foreign cars which a lot of times is out of pure ignorence or a misled preconception that they're getting a better deal "economically" [This I'll actually get into more in my second argument] but when Foreigners who are new here don't even buy the wheels of the land, it's obvious where their head and their heart is.
The truth of it is I haven't been convinced that these "immigrants" don't think of this country as anything but a piece of land with money to cheat and get-off on. The more poorer the dissent (South America, Mexico), the worse they seem to behave. Therefore, Besides the South, I believe this countries own virtues are looked at as wrong and 'old' and we are now [excluding economically, for the present time at least] in almost every way a third world country.
This diversity bring us (from my collected argument above) a diversity that I can't see to be doing anything but tearing down what our forefather's intended and dis-unifying the country. If you have every piece of the world in your country, how could you fundamentally take any action against one? Example: Poll- 95% of muslims in England say they have no loyalty to britain and 50% said they'd fight for BinLaden. That's a real poll and I knew from the beginning it was a bad idea to take in the Muslims (especially since they tried to conquer Europe in the early middle ages) and as it turned out as you know from recent news, I was right. Not a damn thing changed even though they were under a different flag. This multi-racial, cultural idea only breeds the destruction of the recognition of a nationality. You see, if every country had every race of people in it nicely smoothed out, national pride would most certainly not exist. Every culture would be the same. The only thing that would matter is economic superiority which is the problem the US is facing today. This isn't however how the whole world is, surprisingly. Most of the world is still pretty clean cut. It's only the big Economic powers that are having this problem. China is smart because they understand this and don't want people not from asian dissent to live there at all. They're not the biggest economic power on the globe yet but I fear they will be in twenty years and we may for the first time have someone that can push us around. If our country through this is taught to accept and accomodate all races, who the hell will want to fight a costly war with the Chinese, Again?
Anyway, there's really no point in each culture battling it out on which one is the greatest because it's pointless. History points out which are anyway because what each does is the only way you can accurately measure that. I do however think every culture should return to strict geographic isolation or segregation. I believe this is better in the interests and hearts of each national community. It would be much easier to work with than a Utopian Mess.
I believe it would be best for each race with all its different national cultures to do what the Americans did with European culture (that's been done as far back as the Ancient Persians) which is to evolve to absorb all of them (as a modern world excluding of course religion) instead of trying to rediculously have a utopian culture which hasn't ultimately worked and has brought confusion, frustration, oppression, repression, hate, artificial borders and 'traditional turmoil' (obviously there's more). This would mean Africa would be for the blacks and naturally where they would pride themselves with their own unique culture, learning more about all of them and absorbing. The asians would obviously have Eastern Asia where all their race could hopefully do the same but I think it would work the best if all races were also segregated by a religious province if there is a real clash of some anyway internally (India). This would also promote a safety net for people looking to move for economic gain. This idea isn't perfect but I do believe that social stability is inherently more important than Economic Gain as well as each being the nemesis of the other. This inevitably leads me to my second debate which is other BIG social problem the world has and it's even more threatening than the first.
__________________
"You need people like me..."
"You need people like me..."
Last edited by Krackalackin; 09-07-06 at 04:10 PM.
only a little of your second 
you have put a big effort in ,but a bit of editing would have made it easier to read 
because a race is not advanced dosn't mean they don't have a culture, the Australian Aboriginies were not advanced when the Pommies came here and invaded, they had and have a strong culture, it may have not been the same as the English but it most certainly was a culture, it was theirs! 
