Star Wars: Episode VIII – The Last Jedi

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Larry's Avatar
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Hellloooo Cindy - Scary Movie (2000)
10-01-18
Originally Posted by Yoda
People don't have to pinpoint why they don't dislike it, but that is the kind of thing required to argue much about it or attempt to convince others it's bad.
I understand what you are saying. Of course to add substance to what someones arguing it’s good to use examples. But then in some cases it gets too fixated on. Everything’s arguable and goal posts get wider.

You’re allowed to say why this does and doesn’t work without going into explicit detail. One of my main gripes is unlikeable characters, it’s very difficult to argue that objectively. Maybe they tick all the boxes in terms of the right amount of humour, loyalty, kindness. But it’s not about ticking boxes in a boardroom akin to how Disney is making their films, it’s the overall effect.



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That elusive hide-and-seek cow is at it again
10-03-18
Originally Posted by Cynema De Bergerac
Also, I'm starting to think the reason fans are spewing out the "subverted expectations" meme, is because they're mindlessly jumping on the bandwagon without context after the Plinkett Review made it popular (who, ironically enough, criticized Johnson for "subverting expectations", without knowing the context as to why RJ did that in the first place.)

I think this plays into a bigger issue at hand: almost nobody in the current wave of fan backlash knows exactly why they dislike the film, so they point out what I just brought up as some sort of vital point to say: "yeah, I gotcha there!" All they know is they didn't like the way Luke was portrayed in-spite of what they wanted the character to be based on apparent childhood preconceptions, they wanted "X' and got "Y" due to J.J's over-hyped "mystery box", and something about purple-haired SJW propaganda. It's a mixed bag; seems like mindless rhetoric thrown into a blender; RedLetterMedia acts the same way (check out their aimless Half In the Bag review if you don't believe me.)

I'm starting to think this film is a lot smarter than I give it credit for.

I began to doubt it when the prank call started in the opening sequences. Then when their only gravity feed "space" bombers were much too close of a formation. Made me ask why would they do that? Seems pretty dangerous---oh, wait. Then they blew each other up because of their formation.

For me, it was a continued stream of plot points set up not because these characters would actually make such decisions but because writers and/or directors only needed a trigger wire to justify and progress to the next contrived sequence.

All stories do that. Just some are more blatant than others. This movie felt like action on rails where nothing is really possible because you're on a predefined course to get you through for the next paying admission. I felt the same with Jurassic Park and Independence Day.

Point is that I'm VERY aware of why i did not like it. Let's not be silly to assume disappointed fans are so dumb.
Last edited by ynwtf; 10-03-18 at 07:52 PM.



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Chud
10-03-18
Originally Posted by ynwtf
Let's not be silly to assume disappointed fans are so dumb.
I refrained from replying because I only came here to post my thoughts and leave it at that.

However: nobody here who's been disappointed is really 'dumb.' We can sometimes be ignorant in regards to certain things, but nobody here is inherently stupid; there's a clear distinction

WARNING: "burn" spoilers below
Unless you're Des, that is.

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Last edited by Cynema De Bergerac; 10-03-18 at 11:24 AM.



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We've gone on holiday by mistake
10-03-18
An academic paper finds that half of criticism aimed at director Rian Johnson was politically motivated.
Wow. Last Jedi backlash excuses volume #27


What next? Russians stop Solo getting to $400m
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You are vile.



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I'm not old, you're just 12.
10-03-18
Can't believe people are still talking about this. I tend to not care about things I don't like. case in point, they made a remake of Robocop. People who know me know that Robocop is one of my all time favorite flicks. The remake sucked. Oh well. I'm not ranting uncontrollably about it nearly a year later.

Star Wars is the only fandom I know of where the fans actually hate the thing they love so much. I know Star Wars fans who even hate Return of the Jedi, part of the original trilogy. Ewoks, you know. I don't blame Lucas for walking away. I'd NEVER want to work on Star Wars anything. Eventually they will stop making these because the "fans" will become painful rectal itches who hate everything...oh wait, that's already happened.
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I Am Rick Cottontree
10-03-18
Originally Posted by Monkeypunch
Can't believe people are still talking about this. I tend to not care about things I don't like. case in point, they made a remake of Robocop. People who know me know that Robocop is one of my all time favorite flicks. The remake sucked. Oh well. I'm not ranting uncontrollably about it nearly a year later.

Star Wars is the only fandom I know of where the fans actually hate the thing they love so much. I know Star Wars fans who even hate Return of the Jedi, part of the original trilogy. Ewoks, you know. I don't blame Lucas for walking away. I'd NEVER want to work on Star Wars anything. Eventually they will stop making these because the "fans" will become painful rectal itches who hate everything...oh wait, that's already happened.


In simple terms: 77 pages now of "But I didn't like it!!"



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Welcome to the human race...
10-03-18
Originally Posted by gandalf26
Wow. Last Jedi backlash excuses volume #27


What next? Russians stop Solo getting to $400m
I don't think it's a matter of making excuses for the movie so much as noting an interesting phenomenon that's actually relevant on a larger scale than just liking or disliking a movie (after all, doesn't that claim imply that half the tweets are technically legit?). Besides, I thought you cared about whether or not audiences' opinions were accurately reflected through online data so this should be of interest to you rather than just being rejected as "excuses".

Originally Posted by Monkeypunch
Can't believe people are still talking about this. I tend to not care about things I don't like. case in point, they made a remake of Robocop. People who know me know that Robocop is one of my all time favorite flicks. The remake sucked. Oh well. I'm not ranting uncontrollably about it nearly a year later.

Star Wars is the only fandom I know of where the fans actually hate the thing they love so much. I know Star Wars fans who even hate Return of the Jedi, part of the original trilogy. Ewoks, you know. I don't blame Lucas for walking away. I'd NEVER want to work on Star Wars anything. Eventually they will stop making these because the "fans" will become painful rectal itches who hate everything...oh wait, that's already happened.
In fairness, there's a difference between being able to disregard a single remake as a non-canonical entity entirely separate from a beloved original and a continuation of an ongoing narrative. It's pretty easy to not have this level of investment in RoboCop anyway since it was always treated as a one-hit-wonder kind of franchise whereas Star Wars had multiple good installments and the longevity to inspire the kind of multi-generational devotion that's arguably comparable to organised religion.



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We've gone on holiday by mistake
10-03-18
BREAKING!

Mark Hamill's disappointment at the recent portrayal of Luke Skywalker caused by mysterious Russian influences!



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Chud
10-07-18
Originally Posted by Iroquois
Careful, Berg, you're starting to become like them.
Don't lecture me, Iro! I see through the lies of the SJWs. I do not fear the dark-side side as you do. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my true Star Wars!
Last edited by Cynema De Bergerac; 10-07-18 at 09:41 AM.



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We've gone on holiday by mistake
10-07-18
Evidence has come to light of Russian involvement in the meteor strike that wiped out the Dinosaurs 65m years ago. Who knew.




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Welcome to the human race...
10-07-18
@ Yoda, can you investigate if gandalf here is a Russian bot and, if not, can he be replaced with one? Maybe the jokes will be better.



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We've gone on holiday by mistake
10-07-18
I mean who isn't a Russian bot.



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Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
01-23-19
One thing a lot of fans are disappointed about is the death of Phasma? Why? She was not even a major character in anyway, and like most henchpeople, they are killed off, before making it too a third movie. Why did fans want her to become a major character?



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01-23-19
I think the amount of screen time she got in the first made people feel she was likely to grow into a more developed character. I don't know that it should be treated as a failure or mistake that she didn't, but it did kinda feel like that was going to happen more than it did.



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Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
01-23-19
Oh okay, I don't remember her getting that much screen time in The Force Awakens, so I thought she was a minor henchperson that was probably going to be killed off anyway.



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01-23-19
Well, she's given a special outfit and a lot of scripted dialogue for a storm trooper, so they've clearly made an effort to have her stand out and not just be another faceless bad guy. I think that, by itself, suggests a little something extra. And they did do a little something extra with her. Just not as much as expected, I guess.

I don't think it's a particularly strong complaint, even though I sort of understand it.

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