A scary thing happened on the way to the Movie Forums - Horrorcrammers

I don't see how the roughness of Wans style here can be forgiven just because the films subject matter is also ugly. His busy editing and vulgar attempts at technical skill never let us live in the movies ugliness. It skips across it's surface, just makes us voyeurs of it. The reason why so many actual Grindhouse films can get away with this kind of ugliness is they are actually born from these places they depict. And we as viewers get a sense we are a part of what is being depicted. What Wan is doing here, as he always does, is slumming. It's the horror version of Beasts of the Southern Wild. There is something vaguely insulting about how it portrays its grime. Like someone who goes to a stylist to muss up their hair intentionally, or buys jeans that already have holes in the knees. This is faux-distressed filmmaking. But unlike a Conjuring, which actually has some good scenes in it born from his technical skill, or Malignant, which at least dares to be ridiculous regardless of the risk it would have posed to his box office return, Saw has no such saving graces.


Do I blame Saw for the shit it spawned. No. But unlike directors who spawned bad imitations of their style (Kenneth Anger, Tarantino), the source material here and its bad clones are all awful.


Do I think it's good a no budget production managed to break into the mainstream. Sure. But that doesn't forgive how bad it all is. Or make me see the actual film in any better of a light

You think Saw was a bad movie? I saw that in a packed theater opening weekend and it blew everybody's mind. Sure, it might not be the most rewatchable horror film ever, but for its time and place, that movie was an actual game changer and a hell of a lot of fun.

I saw it opening week and the crowd I was in laughed at it.


But I don't really care about how my crowd or your crowd reacted. I speak only from my own experience with it. And as someone who has scraped as deep into the barrel as you can go, and seen nearly everything, yeah, it was bad. Without any question in the top 10 worst horror movies I've ever seen

Wow. I found you! I may bring you up in future conversations.

Ok

Someone has a fan….

Could the vibe of the crowd have swayed you a bit? By all means, I can see not digging it. But worst 10 feels a bit extreme, especially for a film where Danny Glover and Carey Elwes are devouring scenery like they’ll never have another scene to eat.

I apparently gave Saw a generous when I watched it a while back. (Review here: https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2244067-saw.html)

But I was somewhat shocked on watching it at just how nothing it was.

I remember enjoying Saw quite a lot when I watched it, but based off of what I've heard from you guys since then, I have a feeling I'd enjoy it less. I definitely don't get the "worst Saw film by far" criticism I've seen from some of you though.

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Everything potentially affects how I might appreciate a film, so sure. But it's also not like I haven't seen other films where the audience is having an opposite reaction to me and they don't sway my feelings a bit.



And I don't think hating Saw is remotely controversial. Even you seem to be dragging your appreciation of it around like a chain bound to your ankle, and you actually like Wan. Just think how bad it must have been for me, who thinks he's a hack at the best of times.


Maybe if the entire movie was Elwes dragging himself around on his hands and knees I could appreciate it more. But unfortunately it cuts away from this scene for some reason.

So I just posted a review of it in my little review thread, but I wanted to shout out Harlequin (1980), a film that wasn't at all on my radar but which I really enjoyed. I'm wondering if any of you all have thoughts about it.

Outland (1981)


I can't believe I'd never heard of this movie before; it's a sci-fi suspense film that beautifully recreates the lived-in feel of other movies of the era, much like Alien or Blade Runner. I don't know the production history of this movie but I'd believe it if you told me it was intended to be a canonical part of the Alien franchise at some point.


Sean Connery stars as a federal marshal sent to oversee a sleepy mining station when a string of mysterious and super gross suicides happens. At some point the movie pivots from being a mystery/horror show to a more or less straight retelling of High Noon. Not a must-see movie by any means but I had a good time becoming immersed in this world; it's a shame that this movie has been so overlooked.

Knocked another film off my slasher watchlist today : House on Sorority Row


It was fine but I'll have forgotten it by tomorrow. How do we feel about that one? Only one or two of my letterboxd friends have logged it .

I remember liking it, but only the opening sequence with the house mother and the pool has stuck with me.

Now go watch Harlequin!

I've always loved that aspect to Outland a great deal.

(I've never seen Harlequin I'm sorry to say.)

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Yeah, I certainly didn't dislike it, just didn't really grab me. I admit I dozed off and missed a significant plot development, so imagine my surprise when I awoke to find a clown walking around the house. I doubled back and caught up on the missing bits and that was a neat reveal I guess. Again, it was fine.

Harlequin's poster is familiar enough that I was convinced I'd seen it but evidently that's not the case. Hello, Tubi!

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I mean, by all means, dislike the thing. I just think it has too many things going for it to conceivably be a worst film of all time, even judging by your “Baby Driver is the absolute worst” standard.

We can talk about how worthless the glut of frat boy comedies are, or horror movie reboots, or direct to video romantic comedies, or anything that was clearly made as a product and nothing else. But not only do I rarely watch any of these films, they aren't even worth conversational space.


So are Saw or Babydriver the worst films ever made? No. But when it comes to movies which are using actual cinematic techniques to disguise their basic emptiness, these are at the top of the list of greatest offenders. I can completely ignore Ghosts of Girlfriends Past or American Pie 3 or the Friday the 13th reboot because they don't matter. At least they don't on the level of the filmmakers authorship of the material. My anger at these films is more directed towards the studios and the executives who are raking in loads of money to give its audiences absolutely nothing.


But when it comes to a movie where I feel comfortable blaming the director, Saw and Babydriver are the absolute antithesis of what I want a film to be. They don't give me nothing. Instead the aggravate and depress me that they are where talent goes to die.


And I've wracked my brains trying to think of a movie that is worse than either of them. There certainly are some, but there isn't many, and I can't remember any of them.


The only thing that comes to mind is Halloween 4, which I for some reason watched this year....but that falls under the category of it being not even worth discussing.

EDIT: Astrozombies might be worse than these. Mikels has done a few other low budget films that I think are decent (Doll Squad, Corpse Grinders, Worm Eaters, One Shocking Moment, Mission: Killfast) so I can consider him at least somewhat of a low budget artistic force and not just a hack trying to make a buck...but Astrozombies is absolutely worthless.

I imagine we can put a couple of HG Lewis lousier films on this pile as well (Blood Red, Gruesome Twosome, his erotica films)

I think I have it 3/5 when I first watched Saw. Nothing great, but never felt it was among the worst films I’ve ever seen.
I can see people hating it, however.