The Killing of John Lennon

I understand what you're saying… and for the most part agree… but since they did make this movie, hopefully it will wake a few people up enough to start asking why Chapman, with a history of mental illness, was able to legally purchase a gun… and to take a serious look at the mental health practices or rather lack there of in this country…

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I think Lennon was a great lyricist. He had a sharp pen and since he was an outspoken socialist of course anti-socialists will perceive his lyrics in a different way than those who can see the positive sides of the ideology. McCartney (although an underrated lyricist, he did/does have a way with words) wrote apolitical lyrics. And then you're not running the same risk of offending someone.

I think Imagine is a lovely utopian love, peace and freedom anthem. I think it's a brilliant example of how to write political poetry without being theoretical or allowing the words to push the melody aside. Imagine, in its simple brilliance, is a perfect evidence of the man's geniality. The fact that the words upset some people is only proof of that what he wrote means something. It wasn't just jibberish.

The title, Imagine, says it all..... It's a fantasy in Lennon's head. We all know he was a socialist and lived during pretty turbulent times. The things he thought destroyed the world: capitalism, war, nationalism, bigotry.... he wanted to write a song about dreaming of a world without all those things. Then Lennon imagined it would be allright. Realistic? Well, it's a beautiful thought, made into a beautiful song. Think what you will of socialism, but I have never ever heard about reading fascism into the lyrics before. That's pretty over the top, if I may say so.

For the sake of inspiration, if for nothing else, we need a couple of wacky brilliant idealists in this world.

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

Socialism is putting it lightly. He's not singing about limited government-provided healthcare or anything. "No posessions" is pretty stark.

Well...why? What else can we call a world in which all cultures and people are forced to live under one law? That hardly seems to be in keeping with the kind of tolerance and diversity that Lennon talked about.

My apologies to anyone in this thread who actually wanted to talk about the movie.

Just blame it on Forrest...

Do you really think he's saying anyone will be forced? Or is he just asking us to imagine a world where people have chosen to live like that?

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TOP 100 | "Don't let the bastards grind you down!"

A fine question. Neither seems terribly attractive. The absolute best thing we can assume about the lyric is that he's openly advocating a world in which everyone thinks the same way; which, frankly, sounds nearly as fascist as the other interpretation. As the old saying goes, "when everyone is thinking alike, no one is thinking at all."

He he.. Would you listen to a song with the words "limited government-provided healthcare" in it? What you read into "no possessions" only you can be responsible for. Not me and certainly not Lennon. What I read into the words is that he, like socialists in general, believed that private ownership leads to further exploitation of the poor and to conflicts - and ultimately, war - concerning who owns what piece of land and how to expand your own land in the most effective way. Imagine no possessions, then there would be no war.... Yes it's stark, but do you always interpret poetry litterally? You must have a real hard time listening to songs like "All We Need is Love". Obviously we need other things than love to survive.

Where in the song does he say that all people should live under one law? The song isn't that specific. To me it's pretty clear that you, knowing that Lennon was a socialist, has realized that this is a song with socialist ideology. Then you picture communism at its worst - and decide that that is what the song is about. To me saying that all people should come together as one is not more strange than writing "we're all brothers" or something like that. If we realize that we're all one people, human beings, Lennon imagined there would be no more war.

And if Lennon was alive I think he would say that all people and cultures, especially those in the 3rd World, allready live under one violently enforced law: capitalism.

If I go see the movie, I will pop up from my grave and throw my popcorn at the screen!

no not really, but I will go see that, do to my non-homosexual intrest to John Lennon

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I used to be addicted to crystal meth, now I'm just addicted to Breaking Bad.

it's ok to talk about imagine no possessions from a guy who could have what he wanted when he wanted. I'm cynical about Imagine, it's a hippy trippy song from a guy who was born and lived half a mile from me, went to the same school as me and was probably brought up with the same values as we all were in those days. It's pie in the sky stuff. I don't remember him doing an awful lot with with his dosh to help anyone else.

Anyway besides all that he was a good singer and part of a great band. Let's not make him some kind of working class hero cos he wasn't.

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Forty years ago today. Watching the Dal/Balt game and they ran that Howard Cowell announcement from that MNF telecast. Chilling, I remember watching that game.


RIP John...

They have that announcement on YouTube. Very sad.

Firstly, I think it is arguable how much of the lyrics of Imagine were even written by John Lennon. They are extremely similar to the sort of thought exercises Yoko Ono was known for, and Lennon himself had acknowledged she either helped write or inspire many of his lyrics at the time. I don't think anyone has ever accused Ono of being a socialist. But maybe she was, I don't know (I highly doubt it though)

But even if Lennon was solely responsible for the words of Imagine, he was a famously mercurial fellow, and as on-his-sleeve as much of his antiwar politics were, I'm not sure how much Lennon ever really embraced left wing thinking, let alone socialism. It's usually best to never take anything that he wrote at face value. He liked to ponder things, poke hornets nests, aggravate and troll, not unlike Dylan (another guy one should never waste their time trying to get ahead of his politics). Lennon was a brilliant guy artistically , but I'm unsure how deep his thinking ever went with politics. Working Class Hero might be as seemingly frank a political song he ever wrote, but even that has more to do with sympathizing with the working man from a distance, not necessarily wanting to be one. And there is certainly some ambiguity as to exactly where he stands in the song when he throws in lines like "Well, you're still ****ing peasants, as far as I can see". Possibly self loathing. That was probably a bigger trademark in Lennon's playbook than socialism.

Don't worry, those posts are over a decade old. I've moved on to just noting that he was probably a pretty awful dude, personally. Which I guess jibes pretty well with the idea that he was writing songs just to provoke/troll people, as you say, which seems plausible enough to me. Though I think mercurial people like that kind of do "believe" that stuff when they say it, insofar as they believe things.

Ah, 2007, when I had the time to just start an argument for the heck of it. Simpler times.

Lol, I didn't notice the date.

He certainly is a guy that shouldn't be blindly deified, as many seem to do with him. There were some absolutely horrific and dreadful elements to his personality. From all accounts of what I've read of him though, he was a man aware of how petty and cruel and violent he could be, and was always in the process of trying to right those wrongs, with varying levels of success. As long as people don't try and whitewash his reputation, I'm generally fine with those who prefer to focus on the good things he did, since I'm generally a person who believes in redemption if the person works for it.

I hear Ringo Starr is a impeccable bloke though Maybe, for all the peace and lovers out there, they should start walking around with his face on their t-shirts. He's probably closer to the real deal, pacifist wise.

For me, John Lennon was one of most interesting people, and I don't think there are many. Not just for the music, but for what he said, and his great sense of humor.