Do I rat on a friend?

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Yes. He just bought a ring and asked her parents for permission. Her parents told her, and ruined the surprise.
That man needs out of that relationship with this woman right now and I feel awful for him.

If the parents are ruining a surprise like that to their daughter... something tells me they ALL find this man who's with her just a joke. The parents have no respect for this major surprise he wants to give to her, and she has no respect for him because she's cheating on him. This would be an awful marriage for him, I suspect.

It's mortifying because he spent six years with her already.....

So... okay. You need this girl because she's sexy and she brings ladies to you by being by your side. Yet, you feel bad for the dude she's going to marry.

If your friend means a lot to you --- don't tell the guy. But in the future, after they get married, do you think you'll become closer to this guy as a friend? And if so, will you be able to live with the fact that you'll know his wife's dark secret and he doesn't? What if he someday learns it and learns that you knew the secret, too? That sounds awful.

I think what's going on here is that you and this man are in a parallel situation right now --- you both risk losing this woman. You risk losing her as a friend if you tell, he risks losing her if he knows her secret. This may be why you feel like telling him -- you and him are on the same level right now. By admitting to you about what she's doing, your friend is actually testing to see how another man feels about the situation. She is testing to see how it would be like to tell her boyfriend. And maybe she wants to. And if she wants to, then she probably wants to get out of the relationship. I think she probably wants out of the relationship. It just might be hard for her to. And maybe on some level, she really doesn't want to.

The problem is, what happens if you tell the boyfriend? Would he believe you? Would she lie and say it's not true and say you're a liar and stop talking to you and make you feel really bad?

You're best bet really is to dump your friend. Disappear on her. Be mysterious. Don't come around anymore. Make the guy wonder why you left. It will red flag his girlfriend to him. What kind of life is she living if she has people who can't stick with her? You should get out of that mess anyway. If she can do this to her boyfriend whom she's planning to marry, what might she do to YOU? If she can do that to him, she could do much, much worse to you.

If you do go through with dumping your friend, finding a way to tell her boyfriend before he gets married about what she's doing would be kind and generous, even if extremely sad. Even if it all doesn't even go down the right way and he stays with her for some crazy reason. He should know. What if she's being irresponsible and picking up diseases?

I'd dump your friend and tell him.

- Dr. Phil



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Don't listen to Sexy Celebrity. Stay the hell out of it.

But if your main interest in this girl is hanging out with her gets you chicks, she won't be a chick magnet after she gets married.

The guy sounds like a goof for asking her parents permission first. It is not like she is just in her teens.
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so where do you draw the line, and why?
That's of course THE big question in a lot of regulatory questions.
I personally try to 'solve' this problem by judging each situation separately, because it's practically impossible to draw a concrete, always valid line in this kind of disputes.
It doesn't always assure perfect continuity, but I found it to be the best way to act in such situations. I try to find a general preponderant motto, but allow myself to ignore that motto whenever I feel like it. In the situation of the OP, I wouldn't interfere, personally, because I don't feel that it serves any indisputably good purpose, so I would follow my motto.



isn't it normal for any relationship, even a marriage, to be tested in this way. it's part of what it means to be in a relationship with someone else.
Every relationship deserves a scandal to deal with?



The guy sounds like a goof for asking her parents permission first. It is not like she is just in her teens.
It is an old fashioned romantic thing. He sounds like a romantic. She sounds like she just wants sleaze.



Chappie doesn't like the real world
I'm kinda with Yoda on this one. People always say don't get involved with other people's business and sometimes that is the best course of action, but it's not always. If the marriage had already taken place, I'd stay out of it other than to have a long talk with your friend. But in this case, the marriage will happen and it's doomed to fail from the start. It's a sham, but he doesn't know it. I'd seriously want someone to stop me from stepping in that mess.

Have you ever asked yourself what your friend's motivation was for telling you? That in itself was a pretty crappy thing to do actually if you think about it. I don't think you have any obligation to tell him, but I do think there are good reasons to do so. It might be good for your friend to lose a friend over this. You know, actions having consequences and all that.

Bottom line is that you have to do what you feel comfortable with and be willing to take the fallout if you do tell. Either way, I'd dump the friend.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
I was working at this place and one of the supervisors had a reputation to be a lothario and there was this rumor he was messing with a new girl there who was married, which was confirmed for me when I heard them openly talking about what to order in after work. Next morning nobody with keys arrived yet so we were waiting outside and her husband shows up holding their baby and she hadn't come home that night and he is looking for her. At first we denied we knew her because he didn't know she was using her maiden name so when he gave her last name we were't sure who it was. He said she did that before and probably was at her girlfriend's place. Do you think I told him what was going on when I figured out who it was? Hell, no.



28 days...6 hours...42 minutes...12 seconds
Ask him that when he kisses her does her mouth taste/smell like semen?

Maybe he will get the hint.
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Chappie doesn't like the real world
I wouldn't have said anything in that case either, Will. In your example saying something wouldn't prevent anything and could make the situation worse. In this case, something bad can be prevented. Like maybe this guy won't have to end up being the guy holding his baby searching for his wife.



I'm not old, you're just 12.
Tell him. I was in a relationship with a girl who cheated on me for almost a year and a half. I had no idea. A mutual friend of ours knew that she'd been cheating on me...probably since like month 3. My ex made her swear to never tell me. The truth got out, it always does, and I was hurt beyond all hurt, and now I pretty much hate said friend who could have saved me from such humiliation by just telling me. So tell the guy. Your friend is an despicable human being for doing this, she should have told the man she was leaving the MOMENT she knew she was attracted to this other man, saved him from what's going to be a horrific end to the relationship, and a mental scar that will no doubt last a lifetime.
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To give you some background, about a year ago I was seeing someone whom I thought would be a good long term girlfriend. She would go clubbing with her friends and I never asked to join since I hate clubs and wasn't explicitly invited. Upon running into her close friend at a supermarket, she vaguely said "yeah, we have fun.. make out with hot guys, and sometimes take it elsewhere" . She always used 'we' but I got the hint. I always respected that friend and tried to maintain contact. Her loyalty was put into question and she cut contact. I am glad I avoided a larger disaster however.

I wholeheartedly agree she has little respect for him. She is aware that he’s the more rational choice, and long term it's best with him. Yet, her behavior is reprehensible. Rather than being proactive, she dawdles, does what she likes, and blames it on impulse. Of course, she’s likely done it more than once. She admitted to making out with him another time. In my opinion, he can do better. She’s pretty but that’ll pass . He’s educated (which I value a lot) and kind.


On the decision making spectrum, I am right now leaning toward doing nothing. Not because it’s the right decision but rather it’s the least eventful. I feel a strange sense of loyalty and betraying confidence is rarely a good idea. Right now, I would like her to break up with him but do it on her volition. Any suggestions?



On the decision making spectrum, I am right now leaning toward doing nothing. Not because it’s the right decision but rather it’s the least eventful. I feel a strange sense of loyalty and betraying confidence is rarely a good idea. Right now, I would like her to break up with him but do it on her volition. Any suggestions?
Why do you want her to break up with him? If you feel loyal to this chick, why are you wishing that she'll do what you want her to do? If you're so loyal to her, how come you aren't exploring the possibility that maybe she'll get her head on straight and stop fooling around with other men and stay dedicated to her man of six years? How come you aren't okay with her handling both things that she's getting involved with -- the long term boyfriend and the guy she's having a fling with? I'd think a truly loyal person would think, Okay. You're a slut. But I love you anyway.

Were you ever in love with this girl friend of yours or are you at all in love with her now? 'Cause I just wonder now if you ever were and if maybe this thing she's doing might be exciting to you 'cause it's indicative that the major relationship she's in might fail and then she'll wind up single again. I see in your first post that you said you never found her appealing in a romantic way, yet you also remarked that she's attractive.

So what's going on? Does she turn you on? Is it exciting that she's sleeping around on her boyfriend? Cause I can imagine that men might find a woman acting like this to be sexually exciting. You said you like her because she's hot and she brings hot girls your way, so obviously you're kinda superficial and you get jollies out of having different babes at times. What's going on? Is your friend turning you on now? Is this why it's all such a big deal to you?

And let's face it, you're this slutty girl's friend who feels she can confide in you. Maybe you're wild and outrageous like her. Maybe you secretly feel like the two of you should be together, even if just for a fling. Does that interest you at all? Do you like that her long term relationship is failing? C'mon. Be honest.



The world doesn't you owe you a damn thing
I'm with sexy on this one, entirely and very interested in an honest response to this last post from sexy and screw the whole do nothing routine. IF YOU were the bf YOU'D like to know. Being left in the dark and left to "find out on your own" is a bit selfish and, quite honestly, chicken sh*t. To quote Boondock Saints (not very well) "There's a greater evil, the indiferrence of a good man".
Claiming you want a relationship and then screwing around is just sad, being the friend they whisper their dirty secret to and not doing anything just because its "least eventful" is sadder still
you two deserve each other. Tell the bf, he'll leave, and the two of you can have an "open", all out cheating relationship on both sides. Its a win, win. You get the friend, he gets the hell away from someone who'll only hurt him, sooner than later.



I'm with sexy on this one, entirely and very interested in an honest response to this last post from sexy and screw the whole do nothing routine. IF YOU were the bf YOU'D like to know. Being left in the dark and left to "find out on your own" is a bit selfish and, quite honestly, chicken sh*t. To quote Boondock Saints (not very well) "There's a greater evil, the indiferrence of a good man".
Claiming you want a relationship and then screwing around is just sad, being the friend they whisper their dirty secret to and not doing anything just because its "least eventful" is sadder still
you two deserve each other. Tell the bf, he'll leave, and the two of you can have an "open", all out cheating relationship on both sides. Its a win, win. You get the friend, he gets the hell away from someone who'll only hurt him, sooner than later.
You're seeing it way too much from one side. If someone tells you a secret, you're not supposed to rat on him/her (there are exceptions, but this situation is not). It's just wrong.

Maybe she's also wrong when she cheats, but that doesn't mean you have to judge her and break up her relationship. It's not AT ALL your responsibility. Let people live their own life. A person doesn't necessarily have to pay for every mistake he makes.

What if she suddenly quits cheating and ends up in a pretty good relationship with her boyfriend after all, without him ever knowing what happened? The truth is sometimes very overrated by people, in my opinion.



If not everyone has to be judged for every mistake, then he doesn't have to be judged for betraying her trust, either. Not to mention that it's a pretty crappy friend that asks you to keep a secret and then tells you something awful like this. It puts you in a terrible position.

I dunno if the truth can be overrated, but it's certainly way more common that it's underrated and undervalued, especially by people who just want to do something wrong and find the truth is getting in their way. But you can what-if anything. What if he finds out at the alter and it tears both their lives apart? What if he finds out after they have kids and they're put through a messy divorce? If we're going to start speculating to justify a decision, there's no reason to speculate in just the one direction.



If not everyone has to be judged for every mistake, then he doesn't have to be judged for betraying her trust, either. Not to mention that it's a pretty crappy friend that asks you to keep a secret and then tells you something awful like this. It puts you in a terrible position.
But then again, aren't you also a crappy friend if you don't keep the secret? To who else does she have to go with her problems then? Does she have to bottle up all her 'crap' and just wait? Some people need a friend to confess their mistakes to. The only thing he can really do, is give her advice and that advice should be that she has to make a choice. There's no need to abuse her trust in him.

I dunno if the truth can be overrated, but it's certainly way more common that it's underrated and undervalued, especially by people who just want to do something wrong and find the truth is getting in their way.
My experiences teached me that the truth is sometimes unnecessary. It can be useful to leave something behind and never look back at it. In these cases the truth is not always recommended. I feel like this is that kind of a situation. She still has the option to correct her mistakes.

But you can what-if anything. What if he finds out at the alter and it tears both their lives apart? What if he finds out after they have kids and they're put through a messy divorce? If we're going to start speculating to justify a decision, there's no reason to speculate in just the one direction.
You're right about that, but I used the 'what-if'-argument to show that the situation doesn't necessarily have to end up in a 'bad' way. You're absolutely right in stating that a 'worse case scenario' is still possible, but what benefit would the girl have to make that happen? I think she'll be smart enough herself to make an early enough decision and avoid that. It's certainly not the OP's task as the girl's best friend to be the boyfriend's guardian angel.



But then again, aren't you also a crappy friend if you don't keep the secret? To who else does she have to go with her problems then? Does she have to bottle up all her 'crap' and just wait? Some people need a friend to confess their mistakes to. The only thing he can really do, is give her advice and that advice should be that she has to make a choice. There's no need to abuse her trust in him.
I think it's crappier to put someone in that position, because you know what you're doing before you do it. If you say you'll keep a secret, it's far more speculative, because you had no idea what they're going to tell you. The fault, if any, lies in suggesting you'll keep a secret without knowing what it is...but that's unavoidable if you're ever to keep any secrets at all. So the OP is in a much more difficult position, I think.

My experiences teached me that the truth is sometimes unnecessary. It can be useful to leave something behind and never look back at it. In these cases the truth is not always recommended. I feel like this is that kind of a situation. She still has the option to correct her mistakes.
We all have to come to our own conclusions about that, I suppose; the problem is when we decide for others, which is what she's doing. And she's deciding in a way that --surprise, surprise--allows her to hide a misdeed, which is probably the real motivation.

But more importantly, she's not "[leaving] something behind and never [looking] back at it." The OP says she's still talking to this guy and receiving lewd pictures from him, which she secretly appreciates. The ongoing nature of this thing changes the dynamic quite a bit, I think.

You're right about that, but I used the 'what-if'-argument to show that the situation doesn't necessarily have to end up in a 'bad' way. You're absolutely right in stating that a 'worse case scenario' is still possible, but what benefit would the girl have to make that happen? I think she'll be smart enough herself to make an early enough decision and avoid that. It's certainly not the OP's task as the girl's best friend to be the boyfriend's guardian angel.
What reason do we have to think she's going to make smart decisions? The OP specifically mentions her "vacuity." The alter thing is unlikely, but the idea of raising kids with this guy and their marriage imploding after is entirely plausible. And even the way this has happened is a terrible sign for the future. He's so attractive she can't help herself? This isn't "we were working long hours together and my boyfriend and I had been fighting and we developed feelings for each other." There's going to be lots of attractive guys, so if that's all it takes, this thing is doomed.

I agree it's not his task to guard the boyfriend, but then, it's also not anyone's task to do anything nice for anyone they don't know. It seems like a legalistic answer, to me, to approach the issue only from one of technical responsibility, as if the goal is to avoid blame rather than make the best decision.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting he just tell the guy. I just think he should insist, very forcefully, on her telling him. And I think it's worth letting the friendship hang in the balance, especially with someone he admits is vacuous, and who he's around for fairly self-interested purposes. And let's keep in mind that if they do get married, the husband is far more likely to become a friend of the OP's in his own right. Then things get really rough.



I can find myself in most of your arguments, but I personally have a problem with the actual betrayal of a friend, which it would be if he told her boyfriend everything behind her back. As you don't suggest that either, we more or less agree (except on some minor moral dilemmas perhaps).

I wouldn't even care if it wasn't a friend, by the way. I saw a girlfriend of a good friend of mine cheat on him once and I immediately told him, the minute I found out it was his brand new girlfriend (a few days later). I didn't care about the girl, because I didn't know her then. Now I know her better and she's actually a very friendly person. She was very drunk that day, although that isn't a valid excuse of course. They broke up a few days ago.

One of my best friends also cheated on his girlfriend (quite regularly actually) and I didn't care at all to tell her. I told him it was wrong and he knew it. He's still together with that same girlfriend now (he partially confessed it to her and she forgave him).

Anyway, I'm not suggesting he just tell the guy. I just think he should insist, very forcefully, on her telling him. And I think it's worth letting the friendship hang in the balance, especially with someone he admits is vacuous, and who he's around for fairly self-interested purposes. And let's keep in mind that if they do get married, the husband is far more likely to become a friend of the OP's in his own right. Then things get really rough.
I agree. He has to convince her. I don't know if it's necessary to hang the friendship in the balance. The OP has to decide for himself what's more important, his friendship with the girl or her boyfriend's well-being.

A marriage would make things very complicated, though. I agree with that, but one would think that the girl herself would be wise enough to see that and solve the problem herself (by breaking up with her boyfriend, telling him the truth or leaving the affair behind without telling her boyfriend it ever happened), even if she is a superficial, stupid and vacant witch. It's not like she wouldn't experience any disadvantages if she kept going on like this.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
If not everyone has to be judged for every mistake, then he doesn't have to be judged for betraying her trust, either. Not to mention that it's a pretty crappy friend that asks you to keep a secret and then tells you something awful like this. It puts you in a terrible position.

I dunno if the truth can be overrated, but it's certainly way more common that it's underrated and undervalued, especially by people who just want to do something wrong and find the truth is getting in their way. But you can what-if anything. What if he finds out at the alter and it tears both their lives apart? What if he finds out after they have kids and they're put through a messy divorce? If we're going to start speculating to justify a decision, there's no reason to speculate in just the one direction.
He finds out what after their marriage? That she had what was described as an attraction to a man while they were in a fuzzy long engagement without a wedding date that resulted in her giving him a blow job? If she is faithful during the marriage, so what? Why should that end the marriage? It is not for us to judge their lives. It is his responsibility to understand her. It is his relationship with that woman, not yours, not mine.