Tom Cruise is gay

Most staticians? Do you have something to back this claim? So far it has been the based on a chain letter, which is probably the work of Kinsey -- I provided many very clear sources, and can provide a dozen more if need be. Those numbers are not correct -- I'm sorry, but it's very simple: the actual number if closer to 2-3% than 10%.

You also stated earlier...

I don't want to try to attempt to validate the percentages that I provided. They were derived from someone I do not know.

Based on those things, I don't see how this is considered by most staticians to be accurate data! Not only that, but I find quotes from several reports and such to very much make up some evidence. Let's be reasonable here -- we've got one study decades ago and one chain letter claiming 10%, and many sources, including STATS.org, claiming otherwise, and mentioning the Kinsey report SPECIFICALLY as incorrect.

As for the moral issue: I have to say, I'm becoming overly frustrated. For those of you reading this, Kevin and I talked this issue over on AIM a short while earlier -- and we seem to be going through the same motions here.

I don't believe you have really been following the points I've tried to make. I saw examples of this in the IM, and I see it again now...so, to try to correct this, I'm going to make my stance clear with these points...

1 -- I have provided plenty of evidence to debunk the 10% claim -- there is far more against it than for it, and by basically anyone's rules, that makes it far more likely, and it qualifies as strong evidence.

2 -- I'll say it again: homosexuality is a sin. Can you be a Christian and still homosexual? That is not for me to say -- perhaps you can. After all, we all sin. I have never denied this (although you seem to keep mentioning it...no one is arguing with that point).

The difference between homosexuality and other sins? If you are a liar, for example, then you lie now and then -- you are not lying 24 hours a day. When you are a homosexual, you are homosexual all the time -- and as such, you are in a constant state of sin.

Does this even matter? I have no idea. The Bible doesn't spell every issue out for us -- perhaps homosexuality is seen as no different from sloth or gluttony, or other forms of lust in God's eyes -- I cannot say.

3 -- As I also mentioned in our IM conversation (I'll mention it again here to make myself as clear as possible), Jesus, and Christians (his followers), are most definintely to accept people of homosexual orientation -- but that does not mean they are to deny that homosexuality is a sin.

I accept you in this way: I think you're probably a very nice person (I don't know you, but you do not seem mean, for example). I do not think being a homosexual makes you evil, or I don't necessarily think it means you are headed towards eternal damnation -- I don't know what it will lead to. Accepting people with their flaws and sins is a good thing, but pretending they never even sinned in the first place is not -- because it's not true.

Yes -- we made the mistake. That argument doesn't hold water, seeing as how we all agree that lying and murder are sins in God's eyes, and yet we both seem to agree that Jesus Christ exists and is perfect.

I would appreciate it if we could keep our points clear and concise -- I assume you have been reading my posts, but from some of your arguments I cannot be sure, as I have clearly answered some of these claims before.

Ok--my 2 cents. That's all this is--nothing of consequence to anyone but myself. Just an Opinion.

I'm a Catholic but I'm non-practicing. Don't go to Mass or hear Confession. I do try to live by what the Bible says. (New Testament, some Exodus) Genesis and Revelations and Book of Songs/Solomon?--read it--the former 2 because of my interest in evolution and the "science" of it, Songs--for the poetry.

Now, while the Bible has many good lessons to teach, I just cannot rely on it as 100% "GOd's word." The Bible was not written by God, its a series of Books penned by human beings who believe in God and who, unfortunately, included their biases and prejudices. I don't think there's a way we can separate those from the "True Word." If God is a loving God, then it doesn't make sense that He would reject or judge 10% of his children, or even 2%. (I also don't agree with the church's position on abortion--but we'll save that for another thread.)

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I'm afraid you're missing my point as well Wart -- no one has said God "rejects" homosexuals. No one here, at least -- I cannot speak for anyone else. The Bible does not say God rejects them...

...here's what it DOES do: it makes it clear that homosexuality is sinful.

As for being penned by humans: I believe God divinely inspired them to write The Truth.

The Bible says "Love thy neighbour" and "Do unto others as you would them do unto you". Not to mention the "Pray for those who persecute you"...this coming in a time when the philosphy "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" was prevalent shows that it couldn't have been written by a man alone...

As for Tom Cruise being gay or not, I too think he's batting for both sides of the fence. He wouldn't have remained with Nicole Kidman for 10 years otherwise, but he could just as well be bisexual, having the occasional affair. I've heard certain stories that while here in Sydney, he solicited some very high priced (male) models...

Of course it would have an effect on his career! I know several girls who would apsolutely die if they found out that he was indeed gay !!

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Black Holes Suck!

I'm amazed how intense this post has got. Both Kevin R and TWTCommish are both passionate in their differing stances. It's good to see.

Back to the topic though. I fully believe Tom Cruise is gay and I feel that his public acceptance of this fact could benefit the gay community. Ian McKellan, Ellen DeGeneres, Stephen Fry have all done more good, than harm, by coming out with their true feelings. If, as Kevin says, ten percent of the population is gay, then surely there are a few high profile individuals whose outing could eliminate some of this awful gay ridiculing.

Hollywood plays a vital part in our society. You would be foolish to think that Hattie McDaniel and Sidney Poitier's success at the Oscars didn't aid the plight of civil rights in America. Similarly Jennifer Lopez and Benicio Del Toro have done wonderful things for the Latin population in the last couple of years.

There are a multitude of gay celebrities in the States. If they would accept their sexuality, it would make it a lot easier for others to do so and perhaps this existing prejudice against gays would eventually fade.

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I couldn't believe that she knew my name. Some of my best friends didn't know my name.

I had no idea McKellan was gay.

I'm not passionate so much as frustrated, and firm in my stance, and until I hear some decent arguments against my beliefs, I'll go on believing them.

See, the problem with a situation like Cruise's is that he's pressured by some to admit something which may not be true.

Do you realize that with the media's influence, it can actually have an effect on which lifestyle he goes on with? That disturbs me -- if he wants to be gay, let him, and if he says he's not, then assume he's not and leave him alone.

Yoo didnt know McKellen was gay? Thats kinda funny. Because so was John Gielgud & Richard Chamberlain, you know, that guy in Shogun,& nathan lane & Kevin Spacey & probably a whole lot of other English actors but nobody cares over here because its not important.

I AM PIGSNIELITE, Encyclopeida Britishica.

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God save Freddie Mercury!

I had heard about Spacey -- but Lane? I had suspected it, but is that really confirmed?

Of course its confirmed! My brother told me and he knows everything, hahahha. I also read it in the national geographic. hahaha. But its true, ask anybody in new york. He even came out oficially.

Wow! What a battle!
Ok, 10% of the world is NOT gay. That's stupid. That's like saying everybody in the world drinks Mountain Dew just so everyone will buy it. Here's another example. At work we have 60 employees. Zero are gay. In the last 6 years that I've worked there we had 3 guys and 1 girl that were gay, but how many people have come and gone in the last 6 years? Let's say 400. We have a high turnover rate. So you're saying 40 of them were gay? That's stupid. I've never even seen 40 gay people in my life except on tv in one of those parades. 1 in 10 people are gay? I know 10 people, 0 are gay. Heck, I know 60 people, 0 are gay. How many people go to those parades anyway? A few thousand? And how many people live in NY? 1 million? More? That's not 10% Plus people come from out of state to be in the gay parade.

That was cool what you said about taxes. I never thought of that. Can't you just lie? No one is going to come to your house and look at your "girlfriend" to see if she's male or female. The IRS never does that. If they did you could probably sue the heck out of them and be famous and make millions.

I don't think employers should be able to discriminate when they hire. I think it's good that everone is mixing together. I think in about another 40 years things will be good and everyone will be equal.

That's the one thing I disagree with -- if someone owns a business, they should be able to hire only people who like the color blue if they want.

I think hiring based on things other than the way someone works (and works with others) is dumb, but I certainly don't want to outlaw being dumb, or being rude, or being a racist even -- you cannot outlaw being a jerk, and I don't think you should be able to stop people from running their business the way they want.

I do not like discriminatory hiring practices, but trying to force people to hire a CERTAIN NUMBER of this minority or that is just as bad, because deserving people will miss out do to these quotas.

Homosexuality confuses me. I'm not gay and I don't fully understand it. I'm not afraid to say a guy is good looking but I could never fall in love with a guy and the whole mechanics of homosexual sex frightens me to be honest.

I think that we've evolved to such a form that it is conceivable for a man to fall in love with another man; there is nothing wrong with that. Any demonstration of public affection, whether it be hetrosexual or homosexual, I find slightly uncomfortable but if I were to see two men kissing each other, I wouldn't think that it is sick, I'd just ask them to get a room.

I'm Catholic, not a very good one however. The Catholic Church is fundamentally against homosexuality but fornication is also wrong and yet we don't discriminate against people who have sex outside marriage. Discrimination of any kind is an old fashioned device. Get over it already.

As it's a movie forum I'm just wondering how TWT Commish reacts to pro-homosexual films. Billy Elliot, Philadelphia, Gods and Monsters are three of my favourite films.

I hadn't seen some of those -- Billy Elliot, for example, I thought was about ballet -- I get the connection, though. I can enjoy a good film, but if I strongly disagree with it's political message (assuming it has one), then yeah, it makes it less enjoyable for me. It's like sitting through a lecture you don't agree with.

But hey, a film can have what I consider to be an incorrect viewpoint on things, and still be well done.

Well, there aren't that many deserving people out there. There is a shortage of skilled labor in this country right now so how can they be missing out? Also, if they're so deserving they can easily get hired somewhere else. This is the same argument as "They are coming here and stealing our jobs" only a little different. Most people who come over end up in low pay, low wage jobs that residents don't want to do anyway. You're saying, "Dang, that foreigner took my job picking lettuce!" In fact, isn't the unemployment rate in America at an all time low?

I think gay movies are interesting. They give me a glimpse into a world I would otherwise never see. Like movies about volcanoes or fox hunting or something. I don't mind them. I do mind religous movies that blaspheme just to be controversial and sell tickets. Like a movie about Jesus being gay or something. I hate that crap. The world doesn't need that in it.

Homosexuality confuses me. I'm not gay and I don't fully understand it. I'm not afraid to say a guy is good looking but I could never fall in love with a guy and the whole mechanics of homosexual sex frightens me to be honest too.

Anyone see that short film called "Trevor" that was on HBO a whie back?

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Latest Movie Review(s): Too lazy to keep this up to date. New reviews every week.

Hi Everyone: C
Chris - please look at the latest edition of Encyclopedia Britanicca under the topic "Homosexuality". They have the same statistics.

That being said, this post has become very intense. I have been labeled as a "sinner" by some and honest by others. This wasn't about me... this was about whether Tom Cruise is gay or not. My position remains the same: I have never heard him state that he is gay. I have heard him state that he is not gay. Therefore, I am not in any position to play detective and reach conclusions about TC.

Those who consider that homosexuality is a "sin" should be clear in their messages. If you believe that being gay is a "sin", is it because your relious traditions have labeled it as a sin? Is it because you met gays and lesbians and they were cruel and inhumane to others, so much so that they are "sinners"? Or is it because you believe that physical contact between same-sex couples is a sin .. and if so, what makes it sinful?

Chris, I do want to thank you because I think that this board is awesome. I admit I haven't been the eye of the storm before, but I have had some great conversations about movies and entertainers here. You do a great job in maintaining this site.

So, this is going to be my final post on the "Is Tom Cruise Gay" subject. Sum it up this way:

- As a gay man, I have never understood why others need to
know about my sexual orientation unless they are directly
involved in my life.

- Statistics may differ, but a lot of gay men and lesbians
live on this planet.

- You don't need to judge gays and lesbians as immoral in order to be religious or spiritual. This includes Christian religions such as Catholicism.

- Gay men and lesbians are not "sick", either psychiatrically or physically.

- Suicide, alcoholism, drug addiction, and promiscuity occur more in the lives of homosexuals than heterosexuals. No one knows why. Has anyone ever thought about the fact that judgement and discrimination is alive and well, especially in the sexual orientation arena?

- I love movies. I love this site. I want to keep contributing, but not in such a "political statement" kind of way. I joined this site because I love film... I respect film as an art form. So, to repeat, anyone can keep on posting messages about TC. I am going back to talking about the movies.

Peace to All - Kevin

Maybe it seems intense, but I hope I'm not conveying that -- it's easy to interpret things that way seeing as how we don't have the benefit of things like body language, tone of voice, etc, when posting on forums like this.

That said: what makes me believe it is a sin is The Bible. I also think that the sheer mechanics and effects of it (IE: impossible to conceive children, painful by nature) hint at it being un-natural. However, I obviously do not claim these things as fact -- it's just what I believe. I don't think of you as a bad person because of it either.

I'm very glad you like this site -- and I'm glad we've been able to seperate political debates from the rest of the site for the most part. Amazingly, no one on this board really dislikes anyone else -- an amazing feat, as any forum regular anywhere can likely tell you.

Thanks for your viewpoint Kevin -- we all need to learn from each other.

I previously stated that my last posting on this TC/Gay conversation was my final - but I actually took the time to READ what people posted. Overwhelmingly, I felt supported in my statements. But that doesn't excuse the statements of others.
If someone feels like taking the time to read thru the postings, fine. But, someone actually stated that in his/her opinion an employer should be allowed to hire only blue-skinned people. That is a very thinly-veiled statement of discrimination. Replace the word "blue" with any other cultural, religious, or ethnic term that is biologically accurate (after all, humans are do not have blue skin) and what you have is a statement of discrimination. It says "I am the boss. I only want to hire people who are white" or "people who are black" or "people who are Christian" or "people who are Jewish" .... I am amazed about the "blue-skinned" comment ... let's rejoin reality here.
Whether TC is gay is unclear. The number of gay men and lesbians and Asians and Ethiopians who live on the planet is unclear. Whether homosexuality is a sin is unclear; although the Old Testament of the Bible, one of MANY MANY "religious and moral code books" contains a translation of a translation of a translation of a story that was passed verbally through many generations that says that it is immoral and sinfu (strangely enough, only for males. Nothing in the Bible cites that females cannot be sexually active with other females.) Please note that humankind overwhelmingly practices religions that are not based on Christianity; also note that certain Native American religions actually embraced gays and lesbians as being more "connected" to God than others.

"Live and let live" is a moral for which, I believe, all should strive for. But, face it: right now, that isn't what happens. We judge other societies. We fight over whose view of a God or Messiah is right. Some societies execute people who take the lives of other people, except some societies honor people who take the lives of others (think capital punishment versus veterans returning from a war). I am not in a position to pass judgement, but judgement is nearly an instinct of humans. This is the point: Humans have a sense of judgement. Individuals decide upon what is "right" and "wrong" or "moral" and "immoral". Judging a person or a group or sub-group of society on an individual basis is not illegal. Imposing that judgement as being correct for all of society is disgusting.

Peace All,
Kevin

Yes, lets! Are you telling me we need laws in place that do not allow people to be jerks? They started their own business -- we cannot have laws in place that force them to hire certain people.

Rather than go on and on about discrimination, give me a good reason we can force employers to stop being a jerk that way, but not in other ways.

Should we make it illegal to swear? What about being rude? Racism is a BAD CHARACTER TRAIT -- you're a moron if you're a racist, but we cannot have laws against being a moron.

Not only that, but with quotas, deserving people will be turned away just because they're not part of a minority the company is forced to fulfill.

If anyone can explain to me why this is reasonable, or a good idea, go ahead -- and please, no answers consisting only of "discrimination is bad" -- discrimination is inevitable, and we cannot force people to be nice.

Why is "racism" reduced to being a bad character trait? Why is discrimmination reduced to "being a jerk and a moron" Wars have been fought over it! The Civil War! South Africa! WWII. These wars are fought because of indifference. The United States did not get involved in WWII until Pearl Harbor--when the Japanese forced us to be involved. By then, millions of Jews had been killed.

What about age discrimmination? I mean, if your dad or my dad were clearly the best qualified for a job yet because they're in their fifties or sixties--the moron hiring--won't even consider them?

TWT, I also understand that you are against "Affirmative Action." (speaking of quotas) I think it has been abused and in many cases has hurt the people it has intended to help. But it has allowed minorities to get a foot in the door