Films about the US / Mexican border

Tools    





minds his own damn business
I don't think so.
You don't think that I'm uncertain enough about Chigurh's nationality to add a question mark beside it? Well, good for you.
__________________



The sequel to Sicario is worth a watch if you liked the first one.
I thought the first one was good. The second unwatchable.
__________________
Iím here only on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays. Thatís why Iím here now.



Registered User
You don't think that I'm uncertain enough about Chigurh's nationality to add a question mark beside it? Well, good for you.
I think that we should uncertain about him representing anything in particular (e.g., the violence of cartels). Chigurh is more of an attitude, a disposition toward life, an embodiment of a philosophy, than a representation of anything happening in 1980.



I thought the first one was good. The second unwatchable.
The second one certainly lacks compared to the first but

I'm thinking of films that touch on immigration / the damage done by drug cartels etc.
Soldado is pretty much spot on for that request. As a package the two films cover both sides of the opís request. And no one had mentioned it yet.

Iíve heard rumors of a third and would like to see that and the second one wasnít a financial failure, so it very may well still happen



minds his own damn business
I think that we should uncertain about him representing anything in particular (e.g., the violence of cartels). Chigurh is more of an attitude, a disposition toward life, an embodiment of a philosophy, than a representation of anything happening in 1980.
"In particular", this attitude, disposition, philosophical embodiment, et al, is a perfectly acceptable representation of the merciless cruelty of Sinaloa cartel violence. That Sinaloa didn't yet exist in 1980 is a non-issue, much as Chigurh's exact nationality is a non-issue. In Country, he's an omen of a more brutal future of violence. McCarthy definitely had Sinaloa specifically in mind when he wrote The Counselor, and the bolito is definitely an instrument that isn't difficult to imagine Chigurh embracing. The philosophy that Chigurh embodies, dispassionate and severe under a disingenuous karmic guise, is identical to what The Counselor faces between Ruben Blades and a burned DVD.



Registered User
"In particular", this attitude, disposition, philosophical embodiment, et al, is a perfectly acceptable representation of the merciless cruelty of Sinaloa cartel violence. That Sinaloa didn't yet exist in 1980 is a non-issue, much as Chigurh's exact nationality is a non-issue.
I think that MacCarthy, in his border trilogy, is going to for the whole "inherent violence of our species " thing, with this region proving a nice diorama/jungle gym. Was he targeting Sinola? Were the directors trying to comment on a particular cartel? I don't know. I don't have evidence either way. Even if I did, maker-intentions have limits, especially in terms of long-distance references.

If this is what it signifies for you, that's cool. A certain Mark Akenside wrote a poem titled The Pleasures of Imagination in 1744 has the line

Which fill'd himsell he rais'd his plastic arm.
To us, in 2021, a "plastic arm" may signify something different than it did in 1744. Is the poem referring to a plastic arm in the sense of a polymer appendage? In terms of function, we might argue that it now carries that signification for modern audiences, but this is a sort of narrow shade of meaning that say more about us than the poem which we are trying to understand (if we are tying to understand what it meant in its original context).

In Country, he's an omen of a more brutal future of violence. McCarthy definitely had Sinaloa specifically in mind when he wrote The Counselor, and the bolito is definitely an instrument that isn't difficult to imagine Chigurh embracing. The philosophy that Chigurh embodies, dispassionate and severe under a disingenuous karmic guise, is identical to what The Counselor faces between Ruben Blades and a burned DVD.
I suppose that we can speculate that the makers of the story were engaging in a bit of anachronism to refer to a particular cartel, but the casual violence which is rampant in Blood Meridian which also has an "untouchable" and "unstoppable" villain in Judge Holden seems to speak to something more timeless than timely, more general than particular.

If it works for you, that's cool. I just don't quite see the signification myself.



minds his own damn business
Was he targeting Sinola? Were the directors trying to comment on a particular cartel? I don't know.
It doesn't really matter. Anton Chigurh is a mythic evil, as Judge Holden is mythic. The macrocosm is human capacity for brutality. The microcosm, for Chigurh, is the senseless wages over 2 million dollars of drug money. Col. Kurtz is also mythic, does it matter whether Joseph Conrad had forseen the Viet Cong? No, all that matters is that this mythic evil applies to the cartels and the last 30 year cycle of border violence. Myth bridges the general with the particular.


Is the poem referring to a plastic arm in the sense of a polymer appendage?
Maybe it refers to someone overly satisfied with artificial grasping?



Registered User
It doesn't really matter. Anton Chigurh is a mythic evil, as Judge Holden is mythic. The macrocosm is human capacity for brutality. The microcosm, for Chigurh, is the senseless wages over 2 million dollars of drug money. Col. Kurtz is also mythic, does it matter whether Joseph Conrad had forseen the Viet Cong? No, all that matters is that this mythic evil applies to the cartels and the last 30 year cycle of border violence. Myth bridges the general with the particular.


Maybe it refers to someone overly satisfied with artificial grasping?
Conrad, of course, did not foresee the Viet Cong. He died in 1924. His artwork speaks to generalities (the timeless) in a sense. He certainly may be implicated in making predictions of a general scope, but not of anything in particular (i.e., a war in Vietnam in the same decade humans would land on the moon). If we commit to the view that an artwork retroactively speaks to a particular (because it fits), then we're falling into anachronism.

That something applies to cartels does not mean that it specifically refers to cartels. Are we talking about what the character is about or how the character may be applied, if we so choose? If it is the former, cool. If it is the latter, I can only shrug and note that I disagree.



minds his own damn business
That something applies to cartels does not mean that it specifically refers to cartels.
Does the word "represent" imply an application or a reference? And is Chigurh a representation of specific cartels or of the ruthless violence associated with the worst of them? Which word was the object of representation in the actual sentence that I wrote and you quoted?



aronisred's Avatar
outrageous film reviewer
Any suggestions for films set on the US / Mexico border? I've seen:

Frontera
Sin Nombre
The Golden Dream
Sicario

I'm thinking of films that touch on immigration / the damage done by drug cartels etc

Thanks
is sin nombre thriller ? or topical drama ?

i dont wanna watch a movie if its overly preachy...i like movies that cover the topic indirectly. So is it a good thriller first foremost ? because on imdb it says adventure thriller...can this movie qualify as an adventure thriller ?



Registered User
Does the word "represent" imply an application or a reference? And is Chigurh a representation of specific cartels or of the ruthless violence associated with the worst of them? Which word was the object of representation in the actual sentence that I wrote and you quoted?
You did say this,

Chigur certainly represents the ruthlessness of the cartels, even if he is a Turkish (?) independent contractor.
This statement seems to indicate direct reference. You do not refer to yourself as "applying" (i.e., by way of introducing your signification), but speak of what is happening in the artwork: "Chighur certainly represents." This combined with the confidence of the statement ("certainly") indicates that you're not floating a tentative interpretation or alternate reading, but telling us what is objectively in the text.

Things got a bit muddled when you stated in reply

That Sinaloa didn't yet exist in 1980 is a non-issue, much as Chigurh's exact nationality is a non-issue.
as this committed you to a particular cartel and one that, by your own admission, implicated you in an anachronism. Thus, your original statement appears to read (by way of your "clarification"),

Chigur certainly represents the ruthlessness of the Sinaloa.

At any rate, I don't think that Chighur narrowly represents the ruthlessness of cartels, the Sinaloa or any other tribe, but rather generally represents an embodiment of human violence. The word "certainly" is sticky point here, as it seems to indicate that the narrow reading is the "right" one (excluding other readings as being less warranted).

I will say, in agreement, however, that drug cartels have demonstrated a shocking thirst for violence which fits right in with Cormac's diagnosis of what ills the human condition.



minds his own damn business
Whatever, prof. Chigurh represents the ruthlessness, and he was an agent of cartel violence. He represents the horizon of violence that Sheriff Bell (and the Counselor) cannot fathom.



Registered User
Whatever, prof. Chigurh represents the ruthlessness, and he was an agent of cartel violence. He represents the horizon of violence that Sheriff Bell (and the Counselor) cannot fathom.
Sounds about right.



Professional horse shoe straightener
The second one certainly lacks compared to the first but



Soldado is pretty much spot on for that request. As a package the two films cover both sides of the opís request. And no one had mentioned it yet.

Iíve heard rumors of a third and would like to see that and the second one wasnít a financial failure, so it very may well still happen
I thought the sequel was pretty terrible to be honest. It lacked everything that Villeneuve brought to the table in the first.



Professional horse shoe straightener
is sin nombre thriller ? or topical drama ?

i dont wanna watch a movie if its overly preachy...i like movies that cover the topic indirectly. So is it a good thriller first foremost ? because on imdb it says adventure thriller...can this movie qualify as an adventure thriller ?
No there's not much adventure to it really. More drama than thriller too.



If this is what it signifies for you, that's cool. A certain Mark Akenside wrote a poem titled The Pleasures of Imagination in 1744 has the line

To us, in 2021, a "plastic arm" may signify something different than it did in 1744. Is the poem referring to a plastic arm in the sense of a polymer appendage? In terms of function, we might argue that it now carries that signification for modern audiences, but this is a sort of narrow shade of meaning that say more about us than the poem which we are trying to understand (if we are tying to understand what it meant in its original context).
Akenside was a physician so maybe he actually did the first arm transplant.