True Crime Thread

Me and Sean have been talking about the Serial Podcast and he is going to listen to the 2nd season along with me, so i think it is best we have a thread to discuss it rather than using the chill club all the time. I was initially going to make a Serial thread but he suggested a True Crime one and i think that would be better since there are other aspects of true crime i'm interested in. So yeah talk about anything crime related here basically. If anyone has watched or begins watching the first season of serial and want to discuss it please post here because it is still fresh in my mind and i've been wanting to discuss it with some people.

Serial Seasons 1 and 2:

https://serialpodcast.org/season-one

https://serialpodcast.org/season-two

Another True Crime podcast i've been listening to. Warning some of the episodes are extremely disturbing.

http://swordandscale.com/category/podcast/

I prefer fake law-abiding threads.

Thought i may as well post this here since there's a thread now. Sean these are the two episodes i was talking about:

http://swordandscale.com/sword-and-scale-episode-11/

http://swordandscale.com/sword-and-scale-episode-12/

Won't tell you anything about it just listen to them whenever you can and tell me what you think, it is a two part story and is pretty nuts.

Not sure if you heard about the Luka Magnotta case in the news a few years back. Even if you did i think you should listen to this one, it is very disturbing though. Made me think about Narcissism in a completely different way. It is another two part one:

http://swordandscale.com/sword-and-scale-episode-33/

http://swordandscale.com/sword-and-scale-episode-34/

Oh, I remember the Luka Magnotta case. That dude has evil in his eyes.

Cool Camo. Going to spend most of the day at the pool so I will try and do some listening this afternoon.

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The scariest thing about that is that it was purely for fame. I honestly believe if he became a celebrity for regular reasons and this attention was sustained that he wouldn't have killed anybody, he would have always been capable of it but i don't think he would have.

Spoilered since Sean is going to listen to it.

Going to listen to the second episode of Serial soon, i'll post what i think here. It is going to be nuts listening to the Talibans version of events. They obviously aren't exactly "good" people and they have plenty of reasons to lie but they very well may be telling the truth.

So I listened to the first two episodes of season 2 of Serial. I am interested in where it goes so I will keep listening but I see why I stopped the first time. In the first season we get the perspective of two people who very well maybe complicit in a murder but we they could be innocent. So we have to decide the truth for ourselves. It is compelling and it makes me feel like I am getting some insight into human nature.

In season 2 I am not on the side of Berghdal even if he is telling 100% of the truth. He is either a deserter who went rouge and put 100's of his compatriots in mortal danger. Or he is a traitor who put 100's of US soldiers in danger. I am not on the side of either of these scenarios. It makes it very hard for me to listen to this man without my blood beginning to boil. The fact that Sarah again seems to be firmly in his camp is kind of baffling to me. I will be interested to hear your thoughts Camo. I have the next two episodes ready to go for the gym tomorrow night.

I also listened to the first episode of Sword And Scale about Magnotta. I am going to try and keep listening but I think this cast is going to be tough for me. I was all prepared to come in here and say that I really don't find his interviews for a plastic surgery reality show very relevant and pretty boring. Then I listened to the last ten minutes of this episode and found myself wishing for more plastic surgery interviews. If I see a piece about this on 20/20, I'm totally intrigued and on board. In this format I am not sure I am going to be game. I am going to listen to the next episode though and go from there.

That's awesome Sean . Going to listen to episode 2 later after watching Lilya 4-Ever.

To your Magnotta post. Understand that, i'll say the second episode of the Magnotta one is better than the first, also more disturbing. Not all episodes are like this, there are plenty with mystery, twists, etc. I just personally found that one nuts since i wasn't familiar with Luka Magnotta's story. Hopefully you check out the other one i sent you before dropping it at least. Can i ask what your problems with the cast and format are?

Honestly I am too weak to listen to the real crime audio. I was getting queezy when they started playing that stuff. Even the two girls and a cup talk was getting to me.

The interview stuff I just didn't find that compelling. Not that the guy wasn't strange and self involved, he was, but the girl interviewing him was equally strange and she didn't chop anyone up. I feel like sometimes after someone commits a gruesome crime we think all the signs were there in places where they probably weren't. I don't know, I'm going to give the cast a chance, it was only my first listen.

Fair enough. I'm going to say don't listen to the second part then because that is about 20 times worse. I mean it features audio of peoples reactions to his snuff film, Give that one a miss trust me if part 1 was too much.

I would still suggest listening to the other two part one i posted, that isn't really disturbing and it isn't even really a crime, it is pretty sad at a few points but it is more about lies and twists.

Listened to it. A few of my random thoughts before i pick up on a few things you said.

Pretty good episode, there was some interesting stuff. I do think what she said about this being the interview with the taliban episode at the end of the first was a bit misleading. That was only really a small part. That is the major difference between this and the first season so far i think, this is a lot more scattered. In the first it was here is the episode about Jay, here is the episode about the alibi, the locations, etc. This is a bit less focused, it jumps around a bit more. I don't think it is neccessarily a bad thing, it's just that this is a lot more complicated than the Hae case for obvious reasons.

Putting Bowe's culpability aside for a second. One thing i am finding interesting even though it is only coming out in small bursts so far is how Bowe dealt with the situation, unless that was another misleading ending the next episode should be mostly about that. Whatever you think of Bowe, he went through something unbelievably terrifying (i agree it was his own fault) and i think what decisions and how he made them is very interesting. Your mind would be going a mile a minute trying to figure out how to convince them not to kill you, since he obviously didn't have a clue what they were going to do at this point. Like when the Taliban had asked Bowe if he was a big commander or an intelligence officer, this is something that is pretty much fact since both sides mentioned this. What would you say? For all you know they are going to kill you no matter what, and for all you know they are going to keep you alive for a bargaining tool no matter what. It would have to cross your mind that questions like that could decide whether you are going to live or not though. Hope there's a good bit more on what was said between Bowe and the Taliban especially in the early stages.

No, i agree with this. The minute he admitted this was partially about his ego, his wanting to be recognized as a brave "supersoldier" (his own words) in the first episode that was what it came down to for me too. Still i'm interested in finding out what the leadership was doing that was so bad, if this is has any truth to it. If it does then there could be others that should be condemned along with Bowe, not that this creates a reason for Bowe to have done what he did, and i fully believe he deserves(d) to get punished. I know that little that i don't even know if he has been sentenced or what, don't say obviously if you know. It was pretty bad hearing the danger he was putting others in, the boobytrapped place that was a Taliban ambush since they knew he was looking for Bowe sounded terrifying, even worse since the guy fully knew there was a chance of this happening but he had to follow orders of course. I'm sure there'll be a lot more of this including deaths.

Can i ask what it is that makes you think this exactly? Not saying it isn't the case, just that i personally haven't picked up on it, not yet anyway. I may be overlooking/forgetting some stuff though, personally i thought two episodes into Season 1 she had shown more support for Adnan than she has for Bowe so far. Another thing is that this is a show, it is real life but it is still for entertainment. I think she needs to push the Pro-Bowe side a bit, and also in Season 1 she kind of flip flopped between the two sides. There'll be episodes from the other side i'm sure.

Yeah, she certainly never will say who she wants us to sympathize with. I always just feel she wants us to see things from his point of view thus far, and maybe that is the way it should be. I feel like she pressed with the soldiers who were saying they wanted to kill Bowe. That is indeed harsh, but it also felt like she was so shocked, when Bowe is putting them in grave danger. I don't know, maybe the way she was with Adnan is coloring my listening too. I will try and be more cognizant of it the next couple episodes.

I knew you were going to be disappointed with the interviews of the Taliban guy. I didn't say anything because I wanted to see if it was what you were expecting. You had mentioned it before I had relistened as well and had me second guessing if I had even listened to that episode because I didn't remember a Taliban interview. It was there, but uneventful to say the least.

Such a rare case, I want to hear more but I am having a hard time caring what Bowe has to say. Hopefully that will change.

True. It could have been shock at them freely admitting this to her a civilian on a show, rather than shock at some feeling this. I remember that part but don't remember exactly what she said, so if it was clearly not that then point taken.

Yeah that was really disappointing. I'm guessing this was introducing the Taliban guy to the series so there should be more from him. I can't imagine she won't speak to him or someone else from the Taliban again, there's basically three stories or three versions of the same story here, Bowe's, the American Military's and the Taliban's.

I actually forgot to say did i actually hear that right that he was the first US Soldier captured in Afghanistan? Or were they talking about under these sorts of circumstances? That is pretty astonishing if i'm not wrong and he was the first captured from 2001-2009.

Understandable, there's plenty of others she has to talk to though.

Looking forward to the next one.

I understood it as he was the first in Afghanistan as well. That is amazing.

Episode 3 definitely got my sympathies on Bowe's side. No humaan should have to go through the types of things he went through. The period of time makes me think I would have closed my eyes and tried to die. Humans treating each other this way is beyond my scope of reason. I still have the question of why he left his platoon in the back of my head, and I hope I get some satisfying answers to that. He had to know people would come for him and the danger he put his fellow troops in is almost equally unfathomable. Best episode so far.

I will move on to 4 when you weigh in on 3. Don't want to get too far ahead of you.

I'll get to episode 3 in a couple of hours hopefully.

Llstened to Episode 3:

It personally didn't effect my view of things much at all because i've always felt bad for him after he was caught, i didn't know exactly what happened but i knew it was going to be horrible. i never thought Bowe was a Taliban Sympathizer or anything so all this did was make me feel more sorry for him after finding out exactly what he went through. I still split my thoughts of Bowe into before and after he was caught. Of course i feel really sorry for what happened to him after he was caught, giving him the benifit of the doubt that the Dustwun was something he had to do i still find it really stupid and reckless regardless of whether his intentions were good or not. The thing i keep going back to is his statements about this being partially fuelled by his ego, this takes back a lot of sympathy i have for him. Also i have to question why none of the other guys in his unit thought leadership was bad enough to complain, or why they didn't say this was what was possibly happening as soon as he went missing. If things were that bad surely they must of thought instantly he might be bringing a Dustwun for the reasons he stated. Do you remember if any of the guys who have been interviewed that were pissed with Bowe were actually from his unit? If they were then yeah i'm not really with Bowe at all.

I'm jumping way ahead, i'm hoping all this will be answered and i may have to eat my words when they are. Just explaining that while i fully sympathize with him after he was captured wouldn't wish that on anyone, but i am reserving full sympathy until i hear some good reasons for his actions that lead to this.

Same here. I don't think he'd admit this, i wouldn't either, but i have to wonder if his escape was a maybe somehow i'll get out of this if not i hope i'm killed.

Completely agree. Some random thoughts on the episode:

've never seen any of the videos he made and of course i knew that they'd be rehearsed, scripted, etc. It really took me aback how fake they sounded though, i mean what he was saying obviously reading from a script sounded like someone who didn't quite have a 100% grasp of English so there were some weird very minor things that you wouldn't expect a native english speaker to make.

The code of conduct is ridiculous. Sorry i'm not a soldier but c'mon. Also i don't get Sarah saying that this isn't their view when it is in their own rules. I don't know that part confused me. I've noticed Sarah dropping a few things in this Series without explaining how she knows this and it annoys me. She did the same with the rumours about Bowe's capture, she didn't say who she heard these rumours from and ugh. I know you could say the Code of Conduct thing is just common sense but she made it sound as if it is official Army policy not to stick by them. That is just dumb, why have these rules in the first place if they have no intention of following them. Not that i think they should be followed. They are ridiculous, they sound like they were written by someone who has never been in this situation think things should go. Unless they were all written by John McCain haha.

I could totally get one of the things that stuck with Bowe the most was being forced to watch execution videos. That must have seriously pyschologically scarred him. Not just from watching these horrible videos but from knowing while watching them that this may be how it all ends for him.

Good episode looking forward to the next. Are you listening to it tomorrow or what?

Yeah, I'll listen tomorrow. You listen with a much more critical ear than me, and I like that. I didn't think much about her blowing off the code of conduct policy. I just kind of took it as nobody can live up to it. You're right though she just kind of expects us to take what she says at face value.

I am so not on board with the my officers are stupid excuse. I don't know where this is going but he is going to have to shock me for me to be ok with him leaving. It's not going to happen.

I think it is just because i listened to Season 1 recently and after i was finished i started thinking about things and wondering why certain things weren't mentioned or clarified. And yeah she definitely does think that, first season i was a lot more captivated from the start so it just felt like a story to me instead of her interpretation of facts. Kind of makes me want to listen to Season 1 again and see if i missed her dropping in these bits of info that i took as fact without her mentioning how she knows this or were it originated from.

Unless i didn't understand her next episode description thing it sounds like he is going to be rescued earlier than i expected. Next episode or the one after i think, so this is when all of the explanations will come out. Looking forward to it. Can i ask if you knew anything about this case going in? I'm basically blind. I remember it happening, as soon as he was back i thought that's great and everyone else seemed to. It really shocked me when he started getting accused of being a traitor and everything but i didn't pay attention or looked into it really.