Entertainment one vs "cerebral" one - what would you pick?

Tools    





...Anyway, terrible examples, but perhaps you have better? Any cerebral movies that have a truly entertaining segment, and vice-versa? I'm the student, you're the masters thanks for the fun topics.
That was a well stated post that you just wrote. I'm going to attempt to answer your above query. A very entertaining 'popcorn movie' that's also so cerebral that most viewers don't realize the depth of the film is: Starship Troopers.

As far as a cerebral movie that has depth with underpinnings of cerebralness [sic] 12 Monkeys. Plenty of deep thought generation while some good ole action excitement.



Both of those films are excellent examples... Starship Troopers does have a lot more going on than on the surface that's for sure, and am I a sucker for Gilliam too - he tends to juggle both in his films (often with mixed results, but I still love them all)...

I still feel I should watch Godfather at some point to qualify the OP though
__________________
12.12.13 - a dark day in the UK...



Both of those films are excellent examples... Starship Troopers does have a lot more going on than on the surface that's for sure, and am I a sucker for Gilliam too - he tends to juggle both in his films (often with mixed results, but I still love them all)...

I still feel I should watch Godfather at some point to qualify the OP though
Have you seen his film Tideland? If so thoughts?



I personally like a good conversation about what makes one film entertaining and the other cerebral or thought provoking...and can the twain meet? I think so.

definitely



Last night a re-watched 2001 space odyssey, great stuff!


I think the comparison of star wars being "more entertaining" (action-oriented i guess is the better word since "entertaining" is very subjective...) and 2001 space odyssey being "more cerebral" is definitely a fitting description. In 2001 space odyssey, there's a lot of surrealistic stuff, like that black slab of metal. I could see david lynch making something like space odyssey...overall it's a film that evokes a lot of questions from the attentive viewer. I'm sure the most accurate interpretations are all on the web...but i was wondering...since that slab drove all those chimps to learn how to use tools and kill, was that kinda like an "ancient alien" thing where it was forcing evolutionary changes with a radio frequency?? Kubrick was waaay ahead of his times d00d!



Have you seen his film Tideland? If so thoughts?

I've seen Tidelands once upon a time. I'd re-watch it if someone wanted to discuss it. I found it disturbing on several levels. I'll never have a significant other who practices taxidermy.



Have you seen his film Tideland? If so thoughts?
No I had not. But it's on Prime, so after an 11 hour shift and with my wife playing on her phone I jumped in, knowing only what the blurb told me about talking squirrels..

It does start like 'The Fisher King: the route not-taken' - goes dark very quickly.

As the protagonist is pretty much my daughter's age, I grew very protective of her and 'peril' and 'unreliable narrator' were very dominant throughout. I did enjoy it, but was holding my breath as did not want this to slip into 'big twist ending' crap: Gilliam did not disappoint. It was gripping if a big baggy, apparently. based on a book and equally felt about 30mins too long to begin with and to have skipped a few chapters at the same time.

So despite all of this, and my state of mind, I really enjoyed it: very dark shadows and yet it was so endearing and beautiful, and moving. I wanted to cuddle a soft toy all the way through.

Oh and the first thing I did say when it ended was 'bloody hell, Janet McAteer'
And then I thought of Kevin in 'Time Bandits'

So, a wild ride eh? Films like 'The Cell' that delve into the minds of others to give this dreamlike quality are visually cool, but they do obey a realistic structure: 'Tideland' was always one odd-scene followed by another, the tension coming from not-knowing and the comfort of the usual narrative not being there: I did feel so involved for the girl throughout.
Yes, there are bits that went nowhere but I do enjoy a film that has you thinking about it afterwards: not all wrapped up with a bow on when the credits roll.

For me, it felt like a collection of scenes that would perfectly match a mid-90s Tom Waits album; not quite amounting to anything, but always running from something. The dark moments do pass and there is hope.

Thanks for the recommendation



Last night a re-watched 2001 space odyssey, great stuff!
... .overall it's a film that evokes a lot of questions from the attentive viewer. I'm sure the most accurate interpretations are all on the web...but i was wondering...since that slab drove all those chimps to learn how to use tools and kill, was that kinda like an "ancient alien" thing where it was forcing evolutionary changes with a radio frequency?? Kubrick was waaay ahead of his times d00d!
I think this film has aged better than Star Wars, despite the visual effects: it's such a moving film as well. It is worth reading at least the final chapter of the (big) book to get the ending though, as it's the bit my mum always moans about - having read just that bit myself, it did help a lot clarify the final scenes in the movie, but I personally think the ending should be open to interpretation...

I even have a soft-spot for the 2010 sequel, with it's Carl Sagan era view on science unifying the politicians of Earth.

Yeah, Star wars and its dozen sequels are fun but 2001 was the first giant step into the unknown.



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
I'm actually surprised a lot of people say Starship Troopers is cerebral since I thought of it as more of a Top Gun rip off for a lot of the last half, but maybe people are mostly counting the more cerebral stuff in the first act?



I'm actually surprised a lot of people say Starship Troopers is cerebral since I thought of it as more of a Top Gun rip off for a lot of the last half, but maybe people are mostly counting the more cerebral stuff in the first act?
I wrote about this: No, Starship Troopers Is Not Brilliant Satire. People think of it as brilliant/cerebral because it has satirical ambitions, but its satire is mostly just reproduction of the unironic source material, so it's kinda weird.



I think this film has aged better than Star Wars, despite the visual effects: it's such a moving film as well. It is worth reading at least the final chapter of the (big) book to get the ending though, as it's the bit my mum always moans about - having read just that bit myself, it did help a lot clarify the final scenes in the movie, but I personally think the ending should be open to interpretation...

I even have a soft-spot for the 2010 sequel, with it's Carl Sagan era view on science unifying the politicians of Earth.

Yeah, Star wars and its dozen sequels are fun but 2001 was the first giant step into the unknown.

That is really neat, a novel written co-currently with a film...i must check it out. On my wish list for sure.



I'm actually surprised a lot of people say Starship Troopers is cerebral since I thought of it as more of a Top Gun rip off for a lot of the last half, but maybe people are mostly counting the more cerebral stuff in the first act?
Starship Troopers has the satire element that Yoda mentioned in his post...that's clearly visible when one watches the movie. That satire is on the surface and obvious, it can be thought of as a red hearing or even a tip off to the viewer....If you thought Starship Troopers was only a rip off of Top Gun then you missed it's mind challenging aspects. Much like Morpheus' line from The Matrix, I can't tell you what the cerebral part of Starship Troopers is, you just have to experience it for yourself. Tell me in a nutshell what do you think the movie is about?



I've seen Tidelands once upon a time. I'd re-watch it if someone wanted to discuss it. I found it disturbing on several levels. I'll never have a significant other who practices taxidermy.
Diehl, see the link I posted below.

No I had not. But it's on Prime, so after an 11 hour shift and with my wife playing on her phone I jumped in, knowing only what the blurb told me about talking squirrels..

It does start like 'The Fisher King: the route not-taken' - goes dark very quickly.

As the protagonist is pretty much my daughter's age, I grew very protective of her and 'peril' and 'unreliable narrator' were very dominant throughout. I did enjoy it, but was holding my breath as did not want this to slip into 'big twist ending' crap: Gilliam did not disappoint. It was gripping if a big baggy, apparently. based on a book and equally felt about 30mins too long to begin with and to have skipped a few chapters at the same time.

So despite all of this, and my state of mind, I really enjoyed it: very dark shadows and yet it was so endearing and beautiful, and moving. I wanted to cuddle a soft toy all the way through.

Oh and the first thing I did say when it ended was 'bloody hell, Janet McAteer'
And then I thought of Kevin in 'Time Bandits'

So, a wild ride eh? Films like 'The Cell' that delve into the minds of others to give this dreamlike quality are visually cool, but they do obey a realistic structure: 'Tideland' was always one odd-scene followed by another, the tension coming from not-knowing and the comfort of the usual narrative not being there: I did feel so involved for the girl throughout.
Yes, there are bits that went nowhere but I do enjoy a film that has you thinking about it afterwards: not all wrapped up with a bow on when the credits roll.

For me, it felt like a collection of scenes that would perfectly match a mid-90s Tom Waits album; not quite amounting to anything, but always running from something. The dark moments do pass and there is hope.

Thanks for the recommendation
That's quite a good review of Tideland! Nicely written, you should join an HoF the next time one starts up. What's an HoF? Below is a link to the Fantasy Movie HoF (Hall of Fame) we did awhile back. It was @pahaK who nominated Tideland for the group to watch and evaluate. Some hated it due to the dicey subject matter. I liked it. If you check out that link you can see all the members reviews of the movies that were nominated for that HoF including my review of Tideland (the reviews are on the 2nd post there)

Link to Fantasy Hall of Fame



I enjoy writing... glad you liked it and again thanks for the recommendation. the HoF thing seems very cool: get to watch movies and write about them - sounds terrific fun



I enjoy writing... glad you liked it and again thanks for the recommendation. the HoF thing seems very cool: get to watch movies and write about them - sounds terrific fun
It's not for everyone, but I love them as I get to see a lot of films I'd never had seen otherwise.



Registered User
It depends, of course. What am I needing in that moment? How entertaining? How cerebral? There are some films which are not much fun, but which are important because they teach a lesson and complicate us in productive ways. I would pick a film that has a lesson to teach (and which I need to learn, personally) over a forgettable amusement. On the other hand, I would pick being being massively amused by Star Wars than bored to tears by a high concept film that has less to say than it thinks it does.



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
Starship Troopers has the satire element that Yoda mentioned in his post...that's clearly visible when one watches the movie. That satire is on the surface and obvious, it can be thought of as a red hearing or even a tip off to the viewer....If you thought Starship Troopers was only a rip off of Top Gun then you missed it's mind challenging aspects. Much like Morpheus' line from The Matrix, I can't tell you what the cerebral part of Starship Troopers is, you just have to experience it for yourself. Tell me in a nutshell what do you think the movie is about?
I read the link Yoda linked, it was interesting.

I thought the movie was about how Earth wanted to go to war with the giant insects, and thought it was a metaphor, if that's the right term, for how people can be brainwashed into entering the army and being taught to hate and fight an enemy, for the governments goals, and not theres. But I thought it had a Top Gun-ish formula in it, on top of that. But maybe my interpretation of the movie is wrong?



I read the link Yoda linked, it was interesting.

I thought the movie was about how Earth wanted to go to war with the giant insects, and thought it was a metaphor, if that's the right term, for how people can be brainwashed into entering the army and being taught to hate and fight an enemy, for the governments goals, and not theres. But I thought it had a Top Gun-ish formula in it, on top of that. But maybe my interpretation of the movie is wrong?
Points for knowning it's about brainwashing. But that brainwashing takes place on different levels. Let me ask you this, who did you root for?



I wrote about this: No, Starship Troopers Is Not Brilliant Satire. People think of it as brilliant/cerebral because it has satirical ambitions, but its satire is mostly just reproduction of the unironic source material, so it's kinda weird.
What a lot of people don't realize (I didn't know this for a long time) is it's a satire of a satire.

Heinlein wrote a sci-fi that was satire in that it criticized certain types of political thinking, but at the same time it tried to glorify certain types of military philosophies.

When Verhoeven made the film they say he never even finished reading Heinlein's book, but he tried to have the film satirize (criticize) the things Heinlein was seriously trying to praise or glorify in his book.

Personally, I liked a lot of the cliches presented in Starship Troopers that were tropes of hundreds of war films that came before. Things like the "Dear John" letter, the "Army vs. Navy" barroom brawl. A lot of it seemed like a satire of movies like From Here to Eternity.



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
Points for knowning it's about brainwashing. But that brainwashing takes place on different levels. Let me ask you this, who did you root for?
Well this actually the problem I had with the movie, is that I didn't root for anyone. I couldn't root for the humans because I felt they were pawns in a brainwashed scheme, and I couldn't root for the giant insects because they were these awkard giant insects that didn't have much personality or character I thought.