Any NBA Basketball fans?

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It's what happens with these discussions, sports, politics, music. Nobody gives and it's two people talking to the wall.


You may be right on Stockton, but I listened to an advanced metrics breakdown of Stockton and why he's not an all-timer. Even then, people can manipulate stats to their narrative. So, I'll concede I could be wrong again.


You saying Jordan is on steroids with no proof, just kinda ruins your credibility in my book.


So yeah. Your right. Stockton is awesome.




Well you don't have to take my word for it....


Isiah
Payton
Webber
Kerr
Smith
Barkley
Kidd
Wilt
Nash



🐉Double🐉🐉Denim🐉 🐉🐉🐉Dragon🐉🐉🐉



Well you don't have to take my word for it....


Isiah
Payton
Webber
Kerr
Smith
Barkley
Kidd
Wilt
Nash

--------------------------------------------------------



So yeah. You're right. Stockton is awesome.



I think that Stockton and Malone were very good and consistent for a long time. I don't think either are a Batman, meaning the best player on a championship team, and so I wouldn't rank either exceptionally high. That consistency and longevity is what props them up. I see Isaiah much the same way, except he was the best player on a championship team and played big in big moments. Shaq is not one of the 20 greatest players but he may be the single most dominant force.

People keep saying that Jordan lost before he won. No kidding that's usually how it works unless you join a team that's already championship ready. But once he took the throne, nobody was knocking him off except retirement.



🐉Double🐉🐉Denim🐉 🐉🐉🐉Dragon🐉🐉🐉
I think that Stockton and Malone were very good and consistent for a long time.

That was basically what the discussion I listened to laid out. Regular season superheroes / Playoff zeroes. Eveybody is judged by championships, we as a society don't exalt "almost". It will be the same thing with Harden if he never wins one.

People keep saying that Jordan lost before he won. No kidding that's usually how it works unless you join a team that's already championship ready. But once he took the throne, nobody was knocking him off except retirement.

💯



People keep saying that Jordan lost before he won. No kidding that's usually how it works unless you join a team that's already championship ready. But once he took the throne, nobody was knocking him off except retirement.

No it isn't....not for dynasty players



Russell - First season
Magic - first season
Mikan - 2 seasons

Kareem - 2 seasons
Bird - 2 seasons
Duncan - 2 seasons
Kobe - 3 seasons
Curry - 5 seasons

Jordan - 6 seasons
Lebron - 8 seasons
Wilt - 9 seasons


In basketball you either end up in a great system and excel in that system or if you are Oscar, Wilt, Lebron you have to leave and find a system that works. 6 seasons is actually a long time to build a team around a great



No it isn't....not for dynasty players



Russell - First season
Magic - first season
Mikan - 2 seasons

Kareem - 2 seasons
Bird - 2 seasons
Duncan - 2 seasons
Kobe - 3 seasons
Curry - 5 seasons

Jordan - 6 seasons
Lebron - 8 seasons
Wilt - 9 seasons


In basketball you either end up in a great system and excel in that system or if you are Oscar, Wilt, Lebron you have to leave and find a system that works. 6 seasons is actually a long time to build a team around a great
Look at the players some of those guys joined. Also with Russell and especially Mikan, you're talking much fewer teams, fewer games, different rules, etc. Mikan practically played a different sport. Jordan was a one man band until Pippen matured, then it was all over.



🐉Double🐉🐉Denim🐉 🐉🐉🐉Dragon🐉🐉🐉
Siddon is the first person I've ever wanted to mute 🤗 (that's a joke)


These comparisons you make are like stuff Max Kellerman would say on FT.



I mean Siddon come on, you say not for dynasty players and that Magic won in his first season. Well no shlt he joined one of your other dynasty players.



I mean Siddon come on, you say not for dynasty players and that Magic won in his first season. Well no shlt he joined one of your other dynasty players.
How many championships do you think the NBA has had?

I know you guys are getting all hot but facts we've only had eight dynasty's

49-54 - Mikan's Lakers (7-ish)
57-69- Russell's Celtics(11)
80-89 - Magic's Lakers (5)
80-89 - Bird's Celtics (3)
91-98 - Jordan's Bulls (6)
00-10 - Kobe's Lakers (5)
99-14 - Duncan's Spurs (5)
15-19 - Curry's Warriors (3)

That's 60% of the championships...and Jordan did take the longest to get a ring and start his dynasty



How many championships do you think the NBA has had?

I know you guys are getting all hot but facts we've only had eight dynasty's

49-54 - Mikan's Lakers (7-ish)
57-69- Russell's Celtics(11)
80-89 - Magic's Lakers (5)
80-89 - Bird's Celtics (3)
91-98 - Jordan's Bulls (6)
00-10 - Kobe's Lakers (5)
99-14 - Duncan's Spurs (5)
15-19 - Curry's Warriors (3)

That's 60% of the championships...and Jordan did take the longest to get a ring and start his dynasty
Well that's true, but you are discounting who he played with and who the other guys played with. That's a major factor.



I mean did you really expect Jordan to come in and beat teams with multiple Hall of Famers by himself? Even Scotty Pippen, as great as he was, was not the kind of star teams build around.



🐉Double🐉🐉Denim🐉 🐉🐉🐉Dragon🐉🐉🐉
In light of no basketball, I really enjoyed my Saturday in this thread 🦄



I've always depended on the kindness of strangers
I just noticed I have NBATV (I think its a free trial)... I saw Isiah, Mahorn, and McHale dissect Game 7 of the 86-87 season. Pretty cool..... Also read (another site) McHale saying "I understand why the Pistons don't like the Bulls", they were a bunch of whiners, and I think went on to say he never saw a reigning (back-to-back) championship team being treated so disrespectfully, especially between Games 3 and 4, saying the Pistons were undeserving champions, bad for basketball, etc etc..



Is Harden even a top 35 player in the post Jordan era?!



I just noticed I have NBATV (I think its a free trial)... I saw Isiah, Mahorn, and McHale dissect Game 7 of the 86-87 season. Pretty cool..... Also read (another site) McHale saying "I understand why the Pistons don't like the Bulls", they were a bunch of whiners, and I think went on to say he never saw a reigning (back-to-back) championship team being treated so disrespectfully, especially between Games 3 and 4, saying the Pistons were undeserving champions, bad for basketball, etc etc..
That sounds funny coming from Kevin McHale who was known as one of the biggest complainers of the time, but what he means is how the Bulls reacted to the Piston's style, which definitely at least pushed boundaries. Part of that is gamesmanship and working the refs, and with the scraps between Detroit and Boston, McHale definitely knows that.



Well that's true, but you are discounting who he played with and who the other guys played with. That's a major factor.
Russell's team was stacked...you could even call it Cousy's team but Mikan team was really just him I don't think any of the top 10 from that era played with him during his run.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985%E...o_Bulls_season

Jordan didn't really that weak of a team...his second season he got Oakley and Paxson and they signed George Gervin

The 1987 lineup could have been
SG - Jordan
PG - Paxson
SF - Pippen
PF - Oakley (Horace Grant)

Center - Bill Walton was a free agent Moses Malone was on the trading block

compare Jordan's Bull's lineup with Lebron's Cleveland lineup(first run) it's night and day.

Is Harden even a top 35 player in the post Jordan era?!
That's absurb.....that's insulting...that's ridiculous....

Maybe - Iverson, Duncan, Wade, Lebron, Anthony, Kobe, Shaq, McGrady, Nowitzki, Durant, Paul, Kidd, Nash, Davis, Curry, Westbrook, Leonard, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Parker, Giannis....

That might be accurate