Succession

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I assume it's a reference to the short fable The Scorpion and the Frog.
Could be.
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Little unclear as to how this election relates to Tom's position in the company but apparently it does. Who was that guy with the giant leprechaun ears? That emoji conversation with Shiv and Rome was a little too cutesy, making it a little too hard to figure out what was going on. You'd think Rava would be a little grateful that Kendall thought enough to put a security team on his family. Justin Kirk was great...I love him, hope we get to see more of him. When did Tom and Greg start doing coke? Matthew McFayden was so funny during the touch screen crisis. That Tom/Shiv scene was so bizarre...he accuses her of murdering her father and she blurts out that she's pregnant? It seems a re-vote is the only option, why are they even discussing this? Didn't understand why the siblings were not allowed on the floor of the studio. Didn't understand the Greg/Shiv scene at all. So did Connor win any states at all? His concession speech was ugly. What kind of deal are the siblings trying make with Mencken? It was nice to Kendall and Shiv find some common ground in this episode, even if it's a little late in the story. Guess I spoke too soon about the common ground between Kendall and Shiv. I'm beginning to find this show boring and confusing and not sure If I'm going to be watching anymore. This show died with the death of Logan Roy.



Who was that guy with the giant leprechaun ears?
The voting analytics guy every network has that helps them call states based on things like precinct data. That's why they kept calling him "Decision Desk Darwin."

When did Tom and Greg start doing coke?
They did drugs as early as season 1 (the bachelor party) and sporadically since.

That Tom/Shiv scene was so bizarre...he accuses her of murdering her father and she blurts out that she's pregnant?
Makes sense to me: she thought this bombshell would immediately regain his sympathies so she tosses it out when things seem to be at their lowest, only to realize there's been so much betrayal and manipulation that instead of immediately rallying to her side he doesn't even know if he can believe it.

Didn't understand why the siblings were not allowed on the floor of the studio.
Journalistic independence/integrity.

Didn't understand the Greg/Shiv scene at all.
Greg was buddying up with Matsson in the previous episode, and we learned in this episode that he found out about his scheming with Shiv. Shiv is threatening him not to reveal it (and then he does, later, to Kendall).

So did Connor win any states at all?
No, his advisor can be heard saying if they do, it'll be Kentucky, and then Kentucky is called moments later.

What kind of deal are the siblings trying make with Mencken?
That he'll block the Matsson acquisition (on some kind of regulatory/antitrust grounds) if he wins. This was the primary topic of that long dinner party scene in the previous episode, where Kendall's leaning on Nate about it to cover his bases (he wants both candidates to promise to do this so they're covered either way). It's been the primary goal for Kendall and Roman for the last few episodes, since GoJo made their irresistible bid.



I think last nights episode of "Succession" was one of the best in the series. This season has had two really strong episodes, the fallout immediately after Logan dies, as the children learn of his sudden death, and this one. I felt like the way that they juxtaposed the business interest of the Roy's company and placed it in tension with how they would ultimately cover and report on the presidential election was really smart. There was clearly one decision that was in the best interests of the country, holding off on making a definitive call, and another that was in the best short-term interest of the company, calling it as soon as they could, and Kendall and Roman made the decision to do what they thought was in the best interest of the company, even though it was very clearly not in the best interest of the country. Allowing for the inevitable legal challenges to play out, that they knew were coming, and waiting to see if a re-vote would be allowed, was clearly the moral and right thing to do, but calling the election for the right wing candidate would, at least in their minds, ensure that the merger would not go through and that they'd be able to keep control of their company, as they received those assurances. While choosing to not do that would likely result in them losing their company, as the candidate Shiv was in partnership with would not provide those same assurances to ATN. I also thought it was a masterful depiction of something potentially being in the short term interest of the company, but potentially not being in the long-term interest of the company, regardless of the impact on the country.

As we saw with FOX News, which this episode was very clearly inspired by, having the on air commentators say one thing in public and another thing privately, and making decisions based on what they thought was in the best short term interest of the company, saying what they thought their audiences wanted to hear to keep them tuned in and loyal to the channel, ended up damaging the brand and making them a much less trusted news organization. Will the same happen with ATN in the final two episodes of the series? Also, Shiv's final comment that "things do happen" when Roman says the call doesn't matter one way or the other, and that nothing bad would happen, even if they were wrong, was a really intelligent, but subtle way, to make the point that the decisions they make in how they cover the election affect more than just the bottom line of the company, and that there could be collateral impacts of that decision that reverberate on the country in ways which both Kendall and Roman are failing to take into account, even if the election officials ultimately reverse their decision to call Wisconsin for Mencken in the end.



That was an epically good episode in the TV Newsroom. The only thing I didn't like was the live speeches by the candidates which I thought were a little fantastical.

But it's all unravelling quite nicely again. I love watching these horrible people do horrible things to each other.

WARNING: "succession" spoilers below
Anybody else thinking that the father of Shiv's baby will turn out to be Matsson ?




WARNING: "succession" spoilers below
Anybody else thinking that the father of Shiv's baby will turn out to be Matsson ?
WARNING: spoilers below
No. He seems almost asexual to me. Even if he weren’t, I don’t see him & Shiv in bed together.



The voting analytics guy every network has that helps them call states based on things like precinct data. That's why they kept calling him "Decision Desk Darwin."


They did drugs as early as season 1 (the bachelor party) and sporadically since.


Makes sense to me: she thought this bombshell would immediately regain his sympathies so she tosses it out when things seem to be at their lowest, only to realize there's been so much betrayal and manipulation that instead of immediately rallying to her side he doesn't even know if he can believe it.


Journalistic independence/integrity.


Greg was buddying up with Matsson in the previous episode, and we learned in this episode that he found out about his scheming with Shiv. Shiv is threatening him not to reveal it (and then he does, later, to Kendall).


No, his advisor can be heard saying if they do, it'll be Kentucky, and then Kentucky is called moments later.


That he'll block the Matsson acquisition (on some kind of regulatory/antitrust grounds) if he wins. This was the primary topic of that long dinner party scene in the previous episode, where Kendall's leaning on Nate about it to cover his bases (he wants both candidates to promise to do this so they're covered either way). It's been the primary goal for Kendall and Roman for the last few episodes, since GoJo made their irresistible bid.
Yoda, good post. Cleared up some things some of us weren’t sure about plot-wise.



Thanks, happy to help. My wife and I rewatched all of it leading up to the least season and my siblings and I are talking about it each week, so I'm very immersed in it, which certainly helps. Lots going on in this show.



Thanks, happy to help. My wife and I rewatched all of it leading up to the least season and my siblings and I are talking about it each week, so I'm very immersed in it, which certainly helps. Lots going on in this show.
Yes, there is. I watch each episode twice of this final season.



The Adventure Starts Here!
Last night's episode did NOT feel like the penultimate episode at all, but the previews for the next episode did say "Series Finale." Somehow I thought there were a few more episodes left. I have no clue how they're going to make this series feel as if it has wrapped up properly. I don't expect good closure on any of these characters.

And I think that's partly because, as I think back on their character arcs (I binge-watched most of the series in this past month and caught up only about three weeks ago), I realize that none of them have gone through any significant change. Nobody's really learned anything. Everyone is the same person they were at the start. No wonder I never felt I could root for anyone in particular: why would I care, if nobody's willing to learn a lesson or strive to become a better person?

I'm sorry, but this show just fizzled out for me since Logan died. This entire final season has felt as if these siblings (and the rest) are treading water post-Logan, with no real plot buildup worth waiting for here at the end.

I'd like to find out I'm wrong next week, but I don't expect it.



It had to happen, to my mind, even if the show had to change down the stretch for it. It was never going to be breezy at the end, too, and they were already starting to repeat themselves with the formula of someone trying to get one over on Logan, Logan beats them anyway, Logan maybe brings them back into the fold again anyway.

As for it not feeling like it's about to wrap up, that's true, but I think that's part of the point, and will feed into multiple different types of endings. It can end abruptly, and that would be perfectly fitting, and dovetail with Logan's death: all this scheming to placate a man who's just suddenly gone. All this maneuvering to try to control a company someone else might be about to take over.

It also fits a more open-ended ending, where the end only conveys that the backstabbing will go on forever because the siblings can't break out of their destructive cycles.

Don't know what it'll be, but either way I think they've set it up properly.



The Adventure Starts Here!
It had to happen, to my mind, even if the show had to change down the stretch for it. It was never going to be breezy at the end, too, and they were already starting to repeat themselves with the formula of someone trying to get one over on Logan, Logan beats them anyway, Logan maybe brings them back into the fold again anyway.

As for it not feeling like it's about to wrap up, that's true, but I think that's part of the point, and will feed into multiple different types of endings. It can end abruptly, and that would be perfectly fitting, and dovetail with Logan's death: all this scheming to placate a man who's just suddenly gone. All this maneuvering to try to control a company someone else might be about to take over.

It also fits a more open-ended ending, where the end only conveys that the backstabbing will go on forever because the siblings can't break out of their destructive cycles.

Don't know what it'll be, but either way I think they've set it up properly.
I get what you're saying, but I've seen enough shows do this now that it just kinda annoys me. If there is no character progression, if there is literally no resolution, if the only point is that nothing will change... then why take this long to tell us that? The minute details of each character's existence no longer matter if the story doesn't TELL us anything. They could have done that in a single season.

I suppose this is the writer side of me feeling some frustration. Sure, Logan himself never changed, but somehow that alone FELT like it should have coaxed at least one of the sibs to somehow change, especially once he was suddenly taken from them all.

But nope.

Also, in a novel, the writer has to plan this all out and present his readers with a complete story that has been thought through: beginning, middle, end. In a TV show, which by definition is threatened with cancellation unless it has enough viewership, the seasons and the story progress differently--and sometimes there really ISN'T a cohesive narrative from the get-go. In a book, such an open-ended ending might actually mean something. In a TV show, written season by season and then finally saying, "Ya know what? Let's make this the last season," it feels more like a cop-out.

I suppose part of my negative feeling is that I don't like *any* of these characters anymore. I at least used to enjoy Tom and Greg and their banter, but I don't even like either of THEM anymore.

This show has, sadly, lost me.



I don't really follow the simultaneous complaints of "Logan shouldn't have died" and "there's no resolution." Him dying is literally the one thing that's broken the show out of the same loop we're talking about, even though I think that loop is/was the point: I think the whole idea is to show you the feints of change that never come to pass, and to present the death as one of the only things which might theoretically break that cycle.

I don't think anything in this show's DNA ever told us to expect a perfect parabolic arc where we know when someone's hit bottom, and when they've changed, and where they become a new person from that point forward. That's never been remotely telegraphed, so the only reason to expect it is to bring the logic of other shows (mostly much worse ones) into this one.

Besides, if we say they HAVE to change, we're saying no story can ever be about futility, or about how trauma can be cyclical and insidious, about how there are certain things you don't come back from. Why can't a show be about how power corrupts? And if such a show exists, it would only undermine its point to have some character pull out of that tailspin, particularly with a significant number of episodes left.

And this is all granting something which is still speculation: it'd be very easy for something to happen in the last episode that gives us a glimmer, a trajectory of change. And depending on how that's depicted, it would either constitute a real change for the character or, more likely, leave us wondering whether this time it was real or not. But saying there's no resolution BEFORE the resolution is confusing.



The Adventure Starts Here!
I don't really follow the simultaneous complaints of "Logan shouldn't have died" and "there's no resolution." Him dying is literally the one thing that's broken the show out of the same loop we're talking about, even though I think that loop is/was the point: I think the whole idea is to show you the feints of change that never come to pass, and to present the death as one of the only things which might theoretically break that cycle.

I don't think anything in this show's DNA ever told us to expect a perfect parabolic arc where we know when someone's hit bottom, and when they've changed, and where they become a new person from that point forward. That's never been remotely telegraphed, so the only reason to expect it is to bring the logic of other shows (mostly much worse ones) into this one.

Besides, if we say they HAVE to change, we're saying no story can ever be about futility, or about how trauma can be cyclical and insidious, about how there are certain things you don't come back from. Why can't a show be about how power corrupts? And if such a show exists, it would only undermine its point to have some character pull out of that tailspin, particularly with a significant number of episodes left.

And this is all granting something which is still speculation: it'd be very easy for something to happen in the last episode that gives us a glimmer, a trajectory of change. And depending on how that's depicted, it would either constitute a real change for the character or, more likely, leave us wondering whether this time it was real or not. But saying there's no resolution BEFORE the resolution is confusing.
If I ever stated that Logan shouldn't have died, then I recant. He pretty much HAD to die, given the show's title and premise.

Also, I have no problem with stories about futility. But they have to be done on purpose. And with a large ensemble of characters like this, having NONE of them change is a little frustrating. Nobody even HAS a story arc in this show.

Plus, did the writers start out this show with "life is futile, que sera sera" as their goal ending? Or did they, like most shows, kinda write each season when it came time to do it, and then at some point they said, "Let's finally let Logan die and end this show"?

If we get any glimmer of hope from any of these characters this weekend, I'm totally fine with that. And it would go a great distance to redeem it for me. But honestly, if nobody changes and the whole point of all these episodes was "People don't change," then I could have used that lesson after a season or two and saved myself a lot of time.

Also, I'd be okay with a total tailspin or two. But I have a gut feeling that we won't even see that. We'll just get a "life goes on, deal with it" lesson this Sunday. When I picture anyone taking over for Logan (again, the whole point of the title and show), I just don't see them changing because of their new-found role. I hope I'm wrong on any of these points, but I just don't see it. I don't want a deus ex machina on Sunday.

So... to address your main point: SURE, it can be a show about how power corrupts, but boy, did they take way too long to tell us that basic, universally known truth. Perhaps my view is clouded by the fact that I binged this entire show over the course of the past month and a half, and that made it easier to get tired of these people and their constant petty jockeying. The only character that seems to have changed at all is Greg, who's become jaded and cutthroat to the point where he's lost his charming comic elements (for me).



Well, by definition if the point is futility, and an inability to break out of cycles, you can't just show it once. A cycle you only show once is just an event. And we're talking about a grand total of 40 episodes over just four seasons, so I don't see it as lingering around much.

The way it gets you to think "okay, maybe NOW they'll pull together and stop sabotaging each other" is part of the point, I expect. We get suckered in along with everyone else.

Also, sure, "power corrupts" is a simple lesson...but it's the same lesson as The Lord of the Rings. Crime and Punishment takes 100,000 words to say something pretty simple about redemption (and, to dovetail on the earlier point about not knowing what happens yet, it doesn't even really get around to that until the very end, and before that point you could reasonably accuse of it just wasting our time talking about guilt over and over), but as always it's about the path it takes to get there and all the little micro-insights along the way. Almost none of my favorite shows or movies revolve some brand new idea about human nature I'd never thought of, and I could describe all their lessons in reductive terms if I wanted to, but that wouldn't really describe the experience of watching them.

I don't really agree that the characters haven't changed, for what it's worth, but I'm not arguing the point because I don't think it matters if they have.



The Adventure Starts Here!
Clearly we see this show differently. Comparing this story to, say, LOTR, simply because of some really general point each might be trying to make, is a bit of a stretch, yes?

I certainly don't mind if a story is making this point if the story itself is told well. And LOTR had plenty of likable, redeemable characters, and a lot of hope and nobility. Not so with Succession. Just a bunch of horrible people constantly doing horrible things. All the time. Everyone is a negative example.

I guess we just have different experiences with this show. Losing Brian Cox at the beginning of this season was, IMHO, a mistake on the part of the show. It gave us an entire Logan-less season, and I learned then just how much his character was carrying the show. His interaction with just about anybody else stayed fascinating to me. Watching these characters now interact solely with each other, without Logan, is far less compelling television to me. I'm sure that's clouding my experience. Meh.



I agree that the show is not the same without Logan or Brian Cox's performance, and that it was a mistake to kill him off so early. I also think this season has been mostly underwhelming and that this succession story could have effectively been told in a couple of episodes rather than an entire season. It does feel like there has not yet been a resolution to the story, and the building blocks don't appear to entirely be set up for a satisfactory conclusion, but it's too early to say whether that will or won't happen because we have another 90 minutes to go and we really don't know what is left.