Who will take on Obama in 2012?

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Program subsidies that support the extraction, production, and use of petroleum and petroleum fuel products total $38 to $114.6 billion each year. The largest portion of this total is federal, state, and local governments' $36 to $112 billion worth of spending on the transportation infrastructure, such as the construction, maintenance, and repair of roads and bridges.
Sorry, Dexter, this is just silly. Before the horseless carriage came along was construction, maintenance, and repair of roads and bridges considered a government subsidy for horse traders? If you mean the government does all of this spending just to encourage the sale of gasoline, then what’s the dollar value to Federal Express who uses those same roads to make deliveries on which its business depends? How much is directly beneficial to McDonalds and Holiday Inn who cash in on hungry and tired travelers on those roads. Surely it would be of greater benefit to Exxon if there were no restaurants, no motels along a freeway—just Exxon stations where motorists could refill and drive and drive and drive. Thing is, the oil and gas industry was up and running and profitable back in 1859 before the car, much less the freeways and modern bridges, was ever built. (Do you realize that during the Civil War, 1861-1865, there was not a single bridge across the Mississippi River? Not a foot bridge, not a railroad bridge, nothing because they didn’t have the technology then to built a bridge that river wouldn’t tear down.) Roads and bridges followed the car, but by many years. For a long time, autos just drove across the terrain. Come to a fence, the driver would take it down and drive on.


Foremost among these is the cost of military protection for oil-rich regions of the world. US Defense Department spending allocated to safeguard the world's petroleum resources total some $55 to $96.3 billion per year.


Now this part is really funny! I guess your source is saying our military is protecting places like Saudi Arabia. But Saudi Aramco is a national oil company owned by the Saudi government, so if we’re “protecting” anything over there, it’s the Saudi government. Would it be better if we let Russia or China or Japan take Saudi Arabia under its protective wing? Same thing with all the Middle East and most Latin American producers. The government owns the oil and the national oil company. An outside company can invest, but it cannot own the oil or gas production.

Moreover in Desert Storm back in 1990, we attacked Iraq, who then was selling oil to the US, to protect Kuwait, who was then selling oil to Japan. If that really was an “oil war,” didn’t our government get it backwards?

The Strategic Petroleum Reserve, a federal government entity designed to supplement regular oil supplies in the event of disruptions due to military conflict or natural disaster, costs taxpayers an additional $5.7 billion per year.


Whoever wrote this don’t know spit about the SPRO. After the oil shortages in the 1970s (the first when the Muslim oil producers quit selling oil to the US and The Netherlands because of our support of Israel, the second when the fall of the shah in Iran caused a panic because everyone was afraid Iran’s oil exports would be disrupted--although they weren't), the Congress in its wisdom decided it would be smart to build an emergency stockpile of oil (they already had a stockpile of fuel oil in case of a really cold winter in the Northeast) to get the country through any future embargo. All of this was done in conjunction with the International Energy Agency in Paris who is supposed to coordinate everyone when time to dip into their emergency reserves. Now this is not counting the 357.7 million bbl of commercial crude inventories that the oil companies themselves had on hand in the week ended Apr. 1.

The US government did indeed build all that storage capacity along the Gulf Coast in large salt domes and bought most of the oil it has put in there (at one time paying a premium for Mexican crude to help out Mexico). For awhile, the government decided to take royalties from offshore wells “in kind” (oil produced from those wells) rather than cash, and that oil was added to SPRO. Anyway, your source seems to think that the government is just holding that oil to give out to “Big Oil” companies. But actually any release of oil is sold to the highest bidder. And if the government thinks no one has bid high enough, the oil isn’t sold. The idea, I think, was to get refined products (not oil) to consumers like yourself so you didn’t have to sit in line waiting for a fill-up on odd numbered days or freeze in a sleet storm.


The Coast Guard and the Department of Transportation's Maritime Administration provide other protection services totaling $566.3 million per year.


I’m not sure what protection services your source means although the Coast Guard does inspect the maritime part of drillships and semisubmersible rigs that move under their own power, just as it does for other US ships of all kinds. I don’t think they spend as much money or effort on that part of their operations as on running down drug runners or even rescuing wealthy yachtsmen.

Of course, local and state governments also provide protection services for oil industry companies and gasoline users. These externalized police, fire, and emergency response expenditures add up to $27.2 to $38.2 billion annually.


Guess what he’s saying here is if a service station gets robbed, the police shouldn’t investigate. I always thought the police, fire department, and emergency response teams were for the protection of all local citizens, not just a select few based on their employment. Over the years of running fires and crime scenes, I can tell you I’ve covered many more fires in big warehouses and department stores than in refineries, which have their own fire and emergency response teams and their own security. These efforts to make the oil industry responsible for every public expense are foolish.



I'm not old, you're just 12.

After reading this I have concluded Trump is dumber than Sarah Palin.
Trump is an ass. Haven't we gotten past this stupid argument by now? People who bring this crap up are people who know they don't have a chance in a fair fight.
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Rufnek, i think the fundamental problem you are having, is you believe the Government's foreign policy is based on whats best for 280 million regular American citizens.

it isn't. its for the benefit of teh mega-corps than get folks elected, and then have a cush job waiten for them when they have served their purpose as a civil servant.

wake the hell up will you. Your niavete routine is tiresome.

I'm still waiten on links to back up what you say. its the internet, cant be all that hard can it?
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Keep on Rockin in the Free World

I'm going to gloat some more that Glen Beck lost his TV gig.

Apparently, Beck has become a conspiracy nut, which is more kinds of nut than he was. Limbaugh should have told him to stay away from the chalkboard.
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Fox is just getten started, I can't wait to see Hannity explain this away..lol

EXCLUSIVE: Al Qaeda Leader Dined at the Pentagon Just Months After 9/11


Now if MSNBC reported this, O'Reilly would lose his mind, but i wouldn't hold my breath on him talking about it on air.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/20...ntagon-months/



Rufnek, i think the fundamental problem you are having, is you believe the Government's foreign policy is based on whats best for 280 million regular American citizens.

it isn't. its for the benefit of teh mega-corps than get folks elected, and then have a cush job waiten for them when they have served their purpose as a civil servant.

wake the hell up will you. Your niavete routine is tiresome.

I'm still waiten on links to back up what you say. its the internet, cant be all that hard can it?
I opened my original post to you, Dexter, by acknowledging nothing I would say would mean a damn to you. So why the hell would you think I'd waste time hunting down sources for you or that I give a damn whether you believe me or not? I'm not trying to convert you or anyone. Believe whatever you want to believe. Doesn't bother me a bit.

Moreover, I was talking about the government's energy policy, not its foreign policy. Big difference. Maybe that's your fundamental problem.

And, hey, if my posts are tiresome, don't read them. Better yet, don't respond to them, starting with this one. I'm sure someone can explain to you how to automaticly block out all of my posts so as to no longer tire you at all.



Rufnek, i think the fundamental problem you are having, is you believe the Government's foreign policy is based on whats best for 280 million regular American citizens.

it isn't. its for the benefit of teh mega-corps than get folks elected, and then have a cush job waiten for them when they have served their purpose as a civil servant.
How so? Nothing ruf said indicates that his beliefs have anything to do with intent. The disagreement is one of facts, and thus it should be settled with facts, and not...

wake the hell up will you. Your niavete routine is tiresome.
...this sort of thing. rufnek is many things, as I'm sure he'd be the first to say, but naive is not one of them. Hell, he's more jaded than naive. But it doesn't really matter which he is, because the way to get someone to "wake up" is not to say "wake up," but to make a simple, logical, specific fact-based argument.

I'm still waiten on links to back up what you say. its the internet, cant be all that hard can it?
I can't vouch for every specific claim (are you referring to the claim he made about the oil industry paying the second-highest tax rate of all U.S. industries?), but if you want to talk backlog, you can try reconciling the already mentioned counterargument that Big Oil and Big Finance, far from controlling the government, are both heavily regulated and have any number of items on their wish lists that neither party has been willing to indulge despite each of them taking a turn controlling the White House and both branches of Congress simultaneously within the last decade.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
I would disagree with Yoda on one point, that they are heavily regulated. They are regulated.
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I would disagree with Yoda on one point, that they are heavily regulated. They are regulated.
Obama last March banned all "deepwater" drilling in depths of 500 ft. The government, industry, and Coast Guard designation for deep water was formerly 1,000 ft. The BOEMRE bragged today it issued its 9th permit for drilling a deepwater well in the Gulf of Mexico, even though the drilling ban supposedly ended last October. What it has done in the last 2 months, however, is reissue permits for 9 wells that had already been permitted to drill--some had even started drilling--prior to the Macondo blowout last year when Obama shut everything down.

Reissuing those permits don't mean the companies have started drilling those wells, because activity was shut down so long that the rig owners moved the rigs to international waters where work is available. Meanwhile, BOEMRE has slowed to a crawl the issue of permits for conventional shallow-water drilling in less than 500 ft.

That may not seem heavily regulated to you, but the offshore industry doesn't see it that way.

I know it's not popular to like the oil industry. Oil is dirty and smelly, refineries are even worse (although with 80% fewer emissions in my lifetime as a result of federal regulation). People still think of us as "oilfield trash," heaving around "dumb iron" when actually this industry uses more computers and communications satillites than any other industry except the computer industry itself. It is one of the biggest employers in the US and for more than 100 years it has provided the fuel to drive your cars, light your homes, fuel your factories, freeze your ice, run your a/c, grease gears, become fiber for most of your clothing, plastics for your computer and car, and asprin for your headaches. And it has provided so much fuel at such a low price that US residents are convinced cheap energy is their birthright. And it saved the Allies' collective butt during World War II when they "rode to victory on Texas crude" while Germany's last push in the Battle of the Bulge failed when German tanks ran out of fuel.

Companies like Exxon are not a handful of directors in the boardroom. It's thousands of workers all over this and other countries who are concerned about feeding their families and putting a roof over their heads and sending their kids to school, just like any of us. I've never known a roughneck on an offshore rig who didn't like to hunt and fish and most because of the nature of their work in the Gulf of Mexico live on the Gulf Coast. Do you think those people are so careless as to pollute their own neighborhood just for the hell of it? They don't have a death wish. They all plan to go home to their wives and kids at the end of their tour. And since they're the ones who spend the most time on those rigs, do you really think if some crazy executive wanted to cut costs and send them into a death trap, they'd just salute and go?

The only way the oil industry is different from any other industry is that it's the biggest one out there. It's a high cost, labor-intensive industry with big upfront investments and periods of years--10 or more--before the investment will pay out. And sometimes it doesn't pay. Sometimes despite the best they can do, the well just doesn't prove to be commercial, and they have to plug it and move on.

Well, I know it to be already a heavily regulated industry and is becoming more regulated every day. And I know it to be a safe industry. I've been on offshore platforms in the Gulf of Mexico, and in the North Sea and off Alaska where you fly out dressed in survival suits to keep you from freezing to death in the first 5 minutes if you have to ditch in those cold waters. I've been on rig floors from West Texas to the North Slope to the Gaza strip. I'm third-generation oil patch. My paternal grandfather worked cutting wood to fuel the boiler on steam-driven rigs. My dad spent his life in the oil patch starting as a roughneck on rigs my granddady was employed as toolpusher, and he worked East Texas, South Texas, West Texas and offshore Louisiana. He once broke his leg in the top of a rig mast when a chain broke and the pipe he was stacking as they ran it out of the hole all shifted toward him. He dived for a corner, then waited for them to shift the pipe off him before they could get him down from the tower.

I always avoided roughnecking because for a teenager I'd have made too much money. I'd seen other guys do that and the first thing you know they've put a down payment on the car they always wanted, then they marry their girlfriends. Six months later they're daddies and stuck on an oil rig the rest of their lives. But I worked for seismic crews for $1.25/hr because anyone can walk away from pay that low. Worked on a powder truck the summer I was 17, loading holes with fertilizer and dynamite behind 6 drills. Later hustled geophones that we had to lay out to pick up sounds of underground blasts or a 1 ton weight dropping. Had to keep eyes out for rattlesnakes and other varmints. Almost got snake bit a couple of times. And once I came up on the blind side of a vulture feeding on a dead sheep. He was startled and flew right over my head--the bad thing about vultures is when they're scared and start trying to lift their big bodies off the ground, they begin to regurgitate to lighten their load. Yep, I had a full portion rain down on me. Wasn't enough water in West Texas to wash off that smell.

Anyway, I like the oil industry. I like journalism better, and since 1977 I've been covering the oil industry for a daily newspaper and then for trade magazines here in Houston. I have a lot of respect for the oil business and for the people in this business from the rig floor to the boardroom because these are the people I grew up with and have spent my life among. They're my family, and I hate to hear them put down.



The Republican most likely to take on Obama in the 2012 election is Romney, Trump or Huckabee (assuming they all run).

My 2 favorites are Trump and Palin but Romney is a close third.

I don't think Paul or Gingrich will make it to the end. Neither generates a lot of buzz from the GOP base. And Palin, if she runs, probably wouldn't surpass Trump or Romney.
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Wait? People are actually considering Trump a viable candidate?! Isn't this guy a laughing stock amongst both parties? I mean, I am moderately conservative, or atleast far from a democrat, and I think Donald Trump would be a tragedy. In fact, if Trump or Palin get the republican nod, RIP society.

Seriously though, can anyone explain to me why Donald Trump is qualified to be President of the United States?

Also, I am not surprised to hear Gunny lay out some Trump love.
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He isn't. He's a joke candidate. I don't think he's running, and even if he does he has no chance whatsoever. Nothing he's done indicates that he'll run or that he could win.

So, clearly at least one person considers him to be a viable candidate, but I don't think "people" at large do, no.



I don't think he's running, and even if he does he has no chance whatsoever. Nothing he's done indicates that he'll run or that he could win.

So, clearly at least one person considers him to be a viable candidate, but I don't think "people" at large do, no.
Interesting opinion. Unfortunately facts disagree with you. At least for now.

NBC/WSJ poll: Trump tied for 2nd in 2012 GOP field

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...2012-gop-field



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
I saw that a few days ago. He still has no chance of getting the nomination. Focusing on if Obama is an American citizen, which seems to be his main theme, may be red meat for arch conservatives, but it is a dead issue. He has name recognition and right now it gets him good numbers. I do think he might actually run, but his messy personal life makes Gingrich look like a saint.



Yup, I've seen the poll. And you have to actually understand a few thing about polls to understand why it doesn't actually bode well for him at all.

When you conduct an early poll with a large number of candidates, it benefits those with the highest name recognition. Trump enjoys higher name recognition than just about everyone else listed among those options other than Palin, which means that that 20% is his ceiling, not his floor. A candidate who gets 10% of the vote when 85% of the people haven't even heard of them is impressive; a candidate who gets 20% when all of them have heard of him and formed an opinion isn't.

This is borne out when you look beyond the headline at Trump's approval rating, which is actually a net negative. CNN's recent poll, for example, finds that 43% of Republicans don't even want him to run. And for my money, they're the smarter 43%.

And this is without even getting into the fact that prospective candidates who have never had to enumerate a platform or take specific policy positions always poll better when their candidacy is still a hazy hypothetical that everyone can fill with their own preferences.

So, yeah. He's probably not running, and if he does, he'll get killed. Take any odds you want. I use PayPal.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
I think he might run, but I am not betting any money.

I read Romney came out in support of the Ryan Medicare Plan. If true it was dumb. It makes it look like he is runnung away frim his record as Governor again. If he was smart, he would have criticized the Ryan approach and come out with a conservative alternative less extreme. It looks like the nomination is his to lose and he will lose it again.



I so hope Trump & Palin run on a ticket together. Oh my gosh the standup comedians nationwide would try and vote them in for such rich unending material. LOL! What a hilarity our country would become if it happened and they won! Trumps ex-wife couldnt carry him then, and Palins husband aint as bad as Billy Carter so theres a +1. Omigosh I bet Obama wishes those 2 would run. What a debate between Obama & Trump or Palin LOL! If given enough freedom he could toy with both of those overblown imbeciles in any type of intelectual debate or display.

Course what this past 3 years has proven is a president is powerless without the government supporting him. This isnt new news as Jimmy Carter met such resistance and shortcomings. Obama seems like a good man, strong, great leadership, intelligent, and deserving of a second term. It seems there just isnt anyone else more capable.



i heard from a cousin Donald Trump is running. He just overheard it so i don't know how reliable that is.

he is a chef for one of his projects.
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Please, dear lord, anyone but Palin... anyone... I wouldn't mind Ron Paul because he's more libertarian than republican. But this extremely partisan politics is beginning to make me ill, which is why I prefer to remain sane and stay out of it for the most part.
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