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Lois Lerner pleads the 5th on the IRS scandal, this thing is just getting stickier. Hopefully some of the higher ups get jailed.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
She didn't plead executive privelige, the fifth is self incrimination.

Which makes some Republicans screaming White House cover-up on this one hilarious.



Ah yes, the standard will playbook: when there's a scandal and you can't defend it, just try to find an overzealous Republican so you can make fun of their overreach. Nevermind the actual wrongdoing.

But yeah, "hilarious" is the word. Like how the report was delayed several times. Until after the election.

Hilarious.



A system of cells interlinked
Originally Posted by will.15
She didn't plead executive privelige, the fifth is self incrimination.
The fifth is self incrimination? You may want to read that again...pretty sure it protects against self incrimination...The fifth amendment recognizes a right to AVOID self-incrimination.

No wonder you hate the constitution; it's just a made up document in your head full of things you THINK it means.



More hilarity: the IRS commissioner overseeing all this targeting visited the White House 118 times, but won't say who he met with. When asked what kinds of reasons he had for going there, he said "Um, the Easter Egg Roll with my kids." Yes, that's the excuse he gave.

More hilarious still: the IRS employee union gave 23 times as many political donations to the Democrats as they did the GOP.

Uber-hilarious: the head of the union? She met with the President the day before targeting started.

LOL.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
It is pretty hilarious because what you are hoping for and it isn't going to happen is Obama is implicated.

But go ahead and hope.
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Yup, the Shulman case is pretty funny I think, but it also shows the lack of seriousness that's going into this, on the part of the IRS. 9/10 of the members that spoke had something wise to say.
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will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
The fifth is self incrimination? You may want to read that again...pretty sure it protects against self incrimination...The fifth amendment recognizes a right to AVOID self-incrimination.

No wonder you hate the constitution; it's just a made up document in your head full of things you THINK it means.
Hey, I don't hate the constitution.

I support the Miranda decison unlike many Republicans.

Your distinction is semantics and I have no problem with anyone taking the fifth, but when they do it looks like they are guilty of something to the layman.



It is pretty hilarious because what you are hoping for and it isn't going to happen is Obama is implicated.

But go ahead and hope.
The original statements made was this was just a small mess up going on in Cinncinati. Now it's built up from there. I'm not sure if Obama was involved or not, but if he wasn't it shows how little authority and knowledge he has of what's going on around him. Either way it doesn't look good. But somehow despite this and Benghazi Obamas approval ratings stayed at 53%.



Yeah, I love the "It's not a scandal, the President is just wildly incompetent" argument. He saw it all on CNN, just like us! The President.

News flash: when you argue to increase the size and scope of government, you can't use "nobody can be expected to control a government this size" as a defense.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Yeah, I love the "It's not a scandal, the President is just wildly incompetent" argument. He saw it all on CNN, just like us! The President.

News flash: when you argue to increase the size and scope of government, you can't use "nobody can be expected to control a government this size" as a defense.
I didn't say it wasn't a scandal. It is absurd to say it means the President is wildly incompetent because suboordinates did something wrong. Is this the criteria you would have applied to Ronald Reagan who wasn't aware what Ollie North was doing?



I know it's the criteria lots of others applied to him. Though there's a pretty massive difference to something that can be carried out by one or two people and something that was systematic, deliberate, and was hidden for an entire year and only released after the election.

If you want government to be bigger, then you have to bear some consequences for the downsides of that. One of which is that it gets harder to oversee properly.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
I know it's the criteria lots of others applied to him. Though there's a pretty massive difference to something that can be carried out by one or two people and something that was systematic, deliberate, and was hidden for an entire year and only released after the election.

If you want government to be bigger, then you have to bear some consequences for the downsides of that. One of which is that it gets harder to oversee properly.
Here you go again with your distinctions. It was widepread in the IRS, which is not an agency the President is directly overseeing. Here you go again making assumptions and setting up standards you don't make for Republican administrations. This is pretty deplorable and typical of you. Why don't you just wait to see where this goes before making these charges?



You're the one assuming things: for one, you seem to be assuming that I think the President had full knowledge of this. I don't, as it so happens, but neither does that absolve him of blame on a couple of different fronts. And it definitely doesn't absolve the White House of blame for the absolutely absurd dissembling they've done since.



Allegedly having no idea what the IRS was doing despite the Commissioner being at the White House constantly. Allegedly having no idea what they were doing despite meeting with the head of their union the literal day before the targeting started. And the confused, tortured, painful-to-even-watch press briefings the White House has held to try to explain things. Seriously, they need to be seen to be believed.



All that said, I think it's pretty easy for people in the White House to nudge the IRS towards this stuff without ever technically doing anything illegal, or technically involving themselves. Super PACs aren't allowed to coordinate with campaigns, either, but it's also no secret how they can best do what they want. The IRS is overwhelming Democratic and its high ranking officials spent a lot of time around the White House. Do you think they were targeting conservative groups like this when the other party held the White House? I sure as hell don't.



Lerner gets paid leave () I think we should remember this is tax paying money giving these people their paycheck. It appears that no one is involved based on congress statements, of course.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Allegedly having no idea what the IRS was doing despite the Commissioner being at the White House constantly. Allegedly having no idea what they were doing despite meeting with the head of their union the literal day before the targeting started. And the confused, tortured, painful-to-even-watch press briefings the White House has held to try to explain things. Seriously, they need to be seen to be believed.
Did the Commissioner know? Did the decislon start with him?

The head of the Union? What does he have to do with it? Is he involved?