10th anniversary of 9/11

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will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Yeah, it's been my experience that people who think such discussions go "round and round" are just the ones making circular arguments. Wordplay FTW!

But in all seriousness: such discussions can make plenty of progress if people simply present evidence, make their arguments, and--this is the big one--respond to counterarguments and questions. But if they ignore them and just keep insisting something, or are willing to extrapolate from tiny things into huge assumptions? Well, sure, then the discussion definitely goes "round and round." But that's a choice, not an inevitability.
If you want to debate with him the United States or some global conspiracy by oil companies or what not is responsible for 911 that is your business, but it is like debating the Earth really is flat.
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It reminds me of a toilet paper on the trees
- Paula



"He has all the time in the world ... "
Yes.

I personally believe it was orchestrated and carried out by the fanatical bigoted maniacal old men who run the USA and Israel as an excuse to create a never ending War on Terror, that will be great for the Military Industrial Complex, Halliburton etc, Big Oil (Stops rebel Dictators selling Oil to China), and protecting Israel by having vast USA military presence in the Middle East. Also serves as a great excuse to pass a load of Totaliterian laws like Patriot Act, Airport Nude body scanners etc.

Supposedly they got Osama too, but ofc no body or pictures and instantly buried at sea.Also convieniently some of the Seal Team members died in a helicopter crash. No trial for Osama, no arrest, just like Oswald, he's dead he did it, nothing to see here folks just go back to watching Friends and drinking Pepsi. Still don't see an end in sight to War on Terror either.

Iran will be next, one way or the other, never ending propaganda against Iran in the Main Stream Media, being spouted by the likes of Rick Santorum.
I met David Icke once. You'd like him.

http://www.davidicke.com/

No Yoda, I don't want another never ending debate with you thanks.
Speaking of Yoda & the *Jedi in general; of course they may have been behind 9/11, or was it Dave's Reptoids?

No, come to think of it, I was right the first time, 9/11 was nothing to do with American citizens, the Jedi or reptoids, it was caused by fanatical obscurantist bigoted maniacal terrorists with a deep hatred of anything that is different from themselves.


*Who actually don't exist outside of George Lucas movies.



"He has all the time in the world ... "
Oh, & while I'm thinking about Mr Icke, I wish he'd admit he appropriated many of his ideas from the works of Jim Marrs, a genuinely interesting author.

http://www.jimmarrs.com/

I apologise to all & sundry if I am getting a tad off-topic ... I blame the ADHD ... ooh look ... shiny ...



I am currently writing a book on 9/11 and one of the things I've come across is the lack of "attention" bizarre yet factual stories receive.




For example
  • Nick Berg, who would became famous for being beheaded on video in Iraq in 2004, had a strange connection to Zacarias Moussaoui, who was arrested shortly before the 9/11 attacks due to suspicion of terrorism. Berg's father says, one day Nick was riding a bus to his college classes and he met Moussaoui on the bus. Mossaoui asked him for his laptop and his password so he could use the internet. Berg gave him his password. The London Times will note that Berg's "past links to al-Qaeda terrorists have raised questions in some quarters as to whether he might even have been working for the intelligence services."
  • There are hours of archived police radio traffic from the morning of September 11, 2001. One of the most compelling things I've listened to from these audio recordings, is in one case where an officer reports a white van with a mural painting on the side of two planes flying into the World Trade Center. Upon trying to get to the van, it exploded. There are numerous "white van" reports from 9/11. One white van drove up to the hotel Bush was staying at that morning, with Middle Eastern men inside, who claimed they had a poolside interview with Bush. They were turned away for not having an appointment. When Bush was on his way to the elementary school he was appearing at, a witness said that Middle Eastern men in a van were flying down a road cursing at Bush, around the same time Flight 11 hit the World Trade Center. Plus, a group of Israeli men were arrested when acting suspicious on the roof of a white van. A white van was found on a nearby bridge with explosives packed in the back of it. All these white vans belong to Urban Moving Systems. After the attacks, the Israeli owner of the company, fled the US.

  • Also, United 93 passenger Edward Felt, called 911 on the plane. It has been speculated that the flight was shot down. Edward Felt tells 911 some sort of explosion had occurred aboard the aircraft, and that there was white smoke somewhere on the plane.
There is also the case of World Trade Center 7, which was not hit by a plane, that collapsed. NIST states, "Other than initiating the fires in WTC 7, the damage from the debris from WTC 1 had little effect on initiating the collapse of WTC 7." According to NIST, fires caused the building to completely collapse.



Barry Jennings, who barely escaped WTC 7, said that he saw dead bodies in the building, which would challenge the official story that no one died in the building from 8:46 till its collapse at 5:20 p.m.



We've gone on holiday by mistake
Yes.



I met David Icke once. You'd like him.

http://www.davidicke.com/



Speaking of Yoda & the *Jedi in general; of course they may have been behind 9/11, or was it Dave's Reptoids?

No, come to think of it, I was right the first time, 9/11 was nothing to do with American citizens, the Jedi or reptoids, it was caused by fanatical obscurantist bigoted maniacal terrorists with a deep hatred of anything that is different from themselves.


*Who actually don't exist outside of George Lucas movies.
So your explanation for 9/11 is that the Terrorists hate anything that is different from themselves?

Maybe they hate America because America has been over there bombing them half to death,invading countries, enforcing regime change through covert means, stealing natural resources etc. There are approximatley 1 million dead in Iraq because of the War. How would you like it if USA was a third world country with vast Oil reserves being invaded by the Rich Middle Eastern world.

I am aware of David Icke but I certainly do not subscribe to his views on Reptillians controlling the World. However I think he is quite correct on a number of issues.




We've gone on holiday by mistake
Redux, good post.

Building 7 is defo the smoking gun. The only skyscraper ever to collapse due to fire. Also fell at freefall speed perfectly into it's own footprint.

Here is a real fire engulfing a Chinese Skyscraper.



Guess what, this building did not collapse.



As I said, start a thread when you're willing to continue this. I've responded to the building 7 stuff before, including the Chinese skyscraper comparison. I can gladly link you to that post.

Redux: you might want to think about actually providing sources. It's rather conveniently difficult to refute things that are not sourced.



"He has all the time in the world ... "
So your explanation for 9/11 is that the Terrorists hate anything that is different from themselves?
LOL! I think that that would be a bit of an oversimplification. I think that they hated for a number of reasons, predominantly religious ones. Or they did it for the rivers of honey & the 86 virgins, or was it rivers of virgins & 86 honeys? Either way, what they did was fanatical & irrational.

Maybe they hate America because America has been over there bombing them half to death,invading countries, enforcing regime change through covert means, stealing natural resources etc. There are approximatley 1 million dead in Iraq because of the War. How would you like it if USA was a third world country with vast Oil reserves being invaded by the Rich Middle Eastern world.
I'm not buying the big bad American bogeyman argument. All empires have been guilty of of all sorts of things. They have never had any concept of democracy in many of these countries in the Mid East & a lot of them have had medieval governments &/or theocracies well before the US was powerful enough to try & manipulate them or their respective resources. The Soviets inter alios also tried to protect or manipulate energy interests in the region. Bin Laden didn't orchestrate 9/11 because he cared particularly about the plight of Palestinians, something that is often cited was the reason for the attacks, or necessarily about US foreign policies, he was just a poor little rich kid/playboy who got bored with immense wealth & converted to a jihadist philosophy for his jollies. He was a mad dog who needed to be put out of his misery, or better still, out of our misery. I think those navy SEALS did the world a great favour.

I am aware of David Icke but I certainly do not subscribe to his views on Reptillians controlling the World. However I think he is quite correct on a number of issues.
A number of issues? Dude, now you're scaring me.



As I said, start a thread when you're willing to continue this. I've responded to the building 7 stuff before, including the Chinese skyscraper comparison. I can gladly link you to that post.

Redux: you might want to think about actually providing sources. It's rather conveniently difficult to refute things that are not sourced.
These are just some of the many out there:


Nick BergWhite vansEdward FeltWorld Trade Center 7We'll never know what really happened that day. It's a subject people either tend to avoid or don't care for. How could you not care about this? The fact that a man named Ali Mohamed, worked for years with the CIA, enlisted in the US Army, yet his Egyptian military unit assassinated Sadat, he stole classified documents and gave them to al-Qaeda, and deserted his military post to help fight a war in another country? I mean what the Hell?


Ali MohamedThere is actually quite a good video on YouTube that sums up Ali Mohamed pretty well.




I don't think that's necessary. I might suggest we move to a different existing one, though. I assume it makes no difference to you?

I'm out all day tomorrow, but I'd like to tackle this. These are serious accusations and the sorts of things people put out there in support of them are generally anything but serious. And it's important to confront them directly. It's just a shade tiresome, given that the conversation is usually "here's 462 links, what's your response?"



I'm fine using this one for now. If I find a better one I'll move the posts and add a notice.

You can consider this "on me" for the time being if you like; things are a bit busy right now, but I'll get to it eventually. That said, it'll hasten the process along a little if you can summarize a few key points/evidence/whatever, so I don't have to sift through so much just to engage. That's the biggest hurdle with discussions like this: if someone is zealous enough about this stuff, they can throw dozens of links at you, essentially assigning the person they're arguing with with the task of actually obtaining the evidence, which really isn't how it ought to work.

It'd also be helpful if it could be stated just what is being contended. Every other time I've talked about this with someone, no distinction has been made between "here is evidence" and "here are five things that are all mildly peculiar, and I'm suggesting that their small peculiarities add up to a conspiracy." Conspiracies thrive on the failure to distinguish these sorts of things, so if we're going to have a serious conversation about it, I think the "isn't it odd..." stuff needs to be scrapped, and everyone needs to be frank about what they're actually laying claim to.

Make sense?